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Hi guys, I was hoping an experienced player could review my army list before I commit to buying the models. Any feedback is greatly appreciated! thanks!
Selections: Death Visions of Sanguinius [-1CP], Storm shield [10pts], The Hammer of Baal (replaces thunder hammer), Thunder hammer [40pts]
Elites [57 PL, 709pts]
Death Company [23 PL, 369pts] x15
Spoiler:
Selections: Jump Pack [2 PL, 28pts] Death Company Marine [24pts] Selections: Bolt pistol, Power axe [5pts] Death Company Marine [29pts] Selections: Bolt pistol, Power fist [10pts] Death Company Marine [24pts] Selections: Bolt pistol, Power maul [5pts] Death Company Marine [24pts] Selections: Bolt pistol, Power sword [5pts] Death Company Marine [29pts] Selections: Bolt pistol, Power fist [10pts] Death Company Marine [24pts] Selections: Bolt pistol, Power axe [5pts] Death Company Marine [24pts] Selections: Bolt pistol, Power maul [5pts] Death Company Marine [29pts] Selections: Bolt pistol, Power fist [10pts] Death Company Marine [29pts] Selections: Chainsword, Power fist [10pts] Death Company Marine [29pts] Selections: Bolt pistol, Power fist [10pts] Death Company Marine [19pts] Bolt pistol and chainsword Death Company Marine [19pts] Bolt pistol and chainsword Death Company Marine [19pts] Bolt pistol and chainsword Death Company Marine [19pts] Bolt pistol and chainsword
Are your captains Jump, Terminator or Foot Slogging?
What's your plan for a tank/Superheavy/Knight? All your big guns except for a meltagun on the Dread and a lasfusil on one eliminator appear to be close combat based. Inferno Pistols are very Blood Angel'esque.
I'm noticing a definite (I think its called) Concealed Positions (this edition)/Deep strike deployment, but 8th changed it so you can only deploy in your zone or the no-man's land you can't deploy in their zone anymore like you used to. I'm not sure there's enough room in the no-man's-land for this much forward deployment.
I think you're missing some defensive backfield. Units planned to stay in the rear with the gear and provide support/defend/score points in your own deployment zone.
I usually imagine a football play (and spin the offense 180) cause I'm US but a soccer field probably works better - I get some offenseive and defensive linemen to churn up the mud in the middle, some offensive burners to go deep, and some defensive backfield to handle their deep threats. Just about every board is going to have three areas of varying size - your zone, their zone, and no-man's-land. a TAC list designed for any and every mission is one that at least touches on all three of those levels while being able to pivot to all three. While your Scout Deployment troops can still set up in your own zone, they're generally not built for that with longer ranges and special rules, etc. Haywire mines on backfield objectives/chokepoints/key areas/whatever you want to call it does have some potential though as the deep threats are generally a little fragile.
Not counting Characters, dread or dual threats like the Incursors you have 45 infrantry bases across about 7 prerential to close combat. My "usual" list (from the old points so I'm not sure how it shakes out with the new ones) was 58 models in 11 units counting characters and vehicles and that's probably a high count list for your generic SM list. You could/would tie up a lot of my units in close combat in a hurry but my units would win. I did the math once and OldMarine assault marines lost (very slowly) to Intercessors, 5 man CCW scouts almost assuredly lose faster. Hormaguants might not even stop to chew. I'm being cheeky not mean there. A 5man CCW scout squad absolutely has a job on the battle field but that job is less effective with the changes to vehicles, Close combat, and shooting. You used to be able to plaster that unit against a 300 point tank that then became useless now the vehicle can shoot the models in engagement range (and if they have enough firepower other units as well) which makes them more of a speed bump than a tarpit. But speedbumps are good, if you delay their stuff a turn, you get to focus a higher % of your army on a lower % of their army-1750 points killing 1,000 points and then 1,000 points again has an easier than than 2,000 killing 2,000 points all at once. Its a good tool in the box.
More questions:
As you're talking about buying models I'm guessing this is a long term buy-just-this list instead of making a list with a subsection of what you already own. Short term this list will use BA rules which means no Doctrines. Long term BA/DA/SW and potentially more are almost definitely (They've said so, but it hasn't happened yet so 99+% sure) getting merged into Codex:SM with a BA supplement. This could (less than 99% but still pretty high) mean you're going to get doctrines that could then get manipulated by Chapter rules.
How would you play this list with 1 turn of Dev Doctrine, 1-2 turns of Tactical Doctrine, and 2-3 turns of Assault Doctrine to take advantage of those doctrines? Dev Doctrine benefits weapons with the Heavy and grenade type, Tactical on the Rapid Fire and Assault types, Assault on Pistol and Melee.
Blood Angel Outriders?
How are you keeping the Dread around?
It gets Look Out Sir, but it doesn't have a Turn 1 (deep strike, Scout Deploy) shortcut across the field, so it needs an infantry screen or other vehicle within 3" to trigger Look Out Sir. If you screen with a scout squad - it can get shot up first and remove Look Out Sir for the second unit chosen to shoot, and/or it will get left behind by the Wings - if you use a Sanguinary Guard that's another turn or two they won't be in CC.
Pair it with a Baal Pred, also moving 12" to stay within 3" and shoot while it's moving 12?
A forgeworld Dreadnaught Drop Pod?
Add a couple Furioso/DC dreads so there are more targets/saturation?
Swap it for a Sanguinor or Dante that can deep strike to bubbleboost the Guard?
This list makes me think of the Baal campaign where all that's left are a handful of scouts, some elites, Every Death Company Ever Turned Loose At Once, and Dante.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Just realized the phone call I got here:
Not counting Characters, dread or dual threats like the Incursors you have 45 infrantry bases across about 7 prerential to close combat. My "usual" list (from the old points so I'm not sure how it shakes out with the new ones) was 58 models in 11 units counting characters and vehicles and that's probably a high count list for your generic SM list. You could/would tie up a lot of my units in close combat in a hurry but my units would win.
interrupted my train of thought so it's not complete.
7 preferential to close combat units could lock 7+ of mine in engagement/close combat, but many of those locks would be speed bumps and lose quickly. This can be a good tactic as mentioned up above. Or some of that back field can be softening up my non-engaged units while your Sang Guard finish the other units off. If I do it really bad, and/or you do it really right I could even have to give up shooting my next turn to move fast enough to get away from a consoldiate/re-charge on your next turn to buy enough space to eventually shoot the guard that are going to murder me
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/08/31 07:08:43
If you are starting from scratch.
Why not start at 1000 points. Play a few games and see how they feel.
You also use 3 detachments. So lose lots of CP to it.
I would try and fit it in 2 detachments.
Not a fan of scouts. But that's personal.
I would also suggest to keep the death company unit basic, no special weapons except maybe 2 or 3 with hammers. They die really fast so hopefully those 2 or 3 can still swing a time.
Also give your captains jump pack so they can keep up with your sanguinary guard and death company.
No experience with the dread and mephiston. But i would drop the 3e detachment and a few thing in the first 2 so you get 1000 points
troops:
5 assault intercessors: 95 (in stead of scouts with knives) ( a bit more expensive, but have 2 wounds each and do more dmg)
5 incursors: 105
5 intercessors (in stead of incursors, so you can take 1 more hammer with the death companie): 100
Elite:
10 Death company with jump pack: 261
2x with hammers
8 with bolt pistol ans chainsword
5 sanguinary guard with death masks: 170
1 power fist
2 axes
2 swords (but that is all up to you, it's all the same cost now)
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2020/08/31 10:55:47
Post 2020/08/31 06:56:46 Subject: Re:[2000] - BA - Eva's Angels
Some questions:
Are your captains Jump, Terminator or Foot Slogging?
What's your plan for a tank/Superheavy/Knight? All your big guns except for a meltagun on the Dread and a lasfusil on one eliminator appear to be close combat based. Inferno Pistols are very Blood Angel'esque.
I was thinking the Captains would provide that for them. I forgot to click "Jump pack" on battlescribe. My bad lol.
Yeah, i've played "paper hammer" with Blood Angels in 8th edition, and figured everything would be Deepstrike. I just got a hold of 9th edition so I'm still unfamiliar with most of the rule changes. So they changed the deep strike rules? That makes sense. I actually kind of like that change. This just tells me I need to study the rules yet again. I didn't even realize you lose CP by having detatchments!
Also thank for describing TAC for me, that is helpful.
Not counting Characters, dread or dual threats like the Incursors you have 45 infrantry bases across about 7 prerential to close combat. My "usual" list (from the old points so I'm not sure how it shakes out with the new ones) was 58 models in 11 units counting characters and vehicles and that's probably a high count list for your generic SM list. You could/would tie up a lot of my units in close combat in a hurry but my units would win. I did the math once and OldMarine assault marines lost (very slowly) to Intercessors, 5 man CCW scouts almost assuredly lose faster. Hormaguants might not even stop to chew. I'm being cheeky not mean there. A 5man CCW scout squad absolutely has a job on the battle field but that job is less effective with the changes to vehicles, Close combat, and shooting. You used to be able to plaster that unit against a 300 point tank that then became useless now the vehicle can shoot the models in engagement range (and if they have enough firepower other units as well) which makes them more of a speed bump than a tarpit. But speedbumps are good, if you delay their stuff a turn, you get to focus a higher % of your army on a lower % of their army-1750 points killing 1,000 points and then 1,000 points again has an easier than than 2,000 killing 2,000 points all at once. Its a good tool in the box.
The idea was to tie up units with the scouts, allow them to distract and wait for the Deep Strikers to arrive. But I see what you are saying, there's a lot of wasted points that could be spent on intercessors for backfield support or other units that have a better, balanced role to play in my army. I didn't like the scouts, so I take this as good news. I'd rather field Primaris. What I would love is a Primaris army supplemented by Death Company and Sang Guard. An army that will have a tanks in it with a couple of dreads. But since playing Chaos in 8th, I figured predators weren't the best unit to field and have stayed away from them since.
As for combat doctrines I thought, for a moment, about taking a devastator squad but I figured it wasn't a good fit for blood angels. Your comments tell me I need to do more research.
@Krull
I think you're absolutely right, I should start off at 1000 points. That actually makes me feel more relieved lol that I don't have to build such a big army. I just figured 2000 because I wanted to play full sized, tournament esque matches to improve my game faster but now looking at 1000 points to start that seems to make more sense for my goals. The list you provided me is now my current buying guide, so thank you. If the list you provided works out well I can use that as a foundation to experiment off of.
Thank you guys so much for your replies! I greatly appreciate it!
Deep Strike still works pretty much the same, it's infiltrate that has changed, and not necessarily since 8th.
Infiltrate, Concealed Deployment, whatever you want to call it - where models with the ability are set up last during deployment and (potentially but not required) set up outside your own deployment zone used to be able to deploy in your opponent's deployment zone. So if they left an area pretty empty you could set up there with your scouts.
Deep Strike is still after deployment, and still pretty much anywhere on the board as long as it's X inches away.
If you DO want to go full Primaris I would definitely not commit to a whole lot of non-primaris purchases until the new codex drops.
Intercessors of both varieties are likely to find a spot in any Primaris focused BA army.
Infiltrators/Incursors are likely to as well.
Eradicators with Melta are very BA flavored, or you can go with some Hellblasters for a more vanilla but generalized Heavy Support.
Reivers - if their LD penalty stacks with Deathmasks on Sanguinor/Dante might be a dirty trick. I don't know that it does so research it first. -4 to -6 to LD will make some for unhappy people when they have to take tests. Reivers are kinda blah/meh otherwise as Elites that act like Bolter or BP/chainsword scouts with Deep Strike and/or about half of fly. You'll have to look em up to see what I mean so I don't give away rules.
Blood Angels have a history of supercharging engines. Faster Impulsors unloading Assault Intercessors could easily be a thing.
The Baal Predator isn't Primaris but its very Blood Angels, its even one of their uniques.
Running your Libby Dread with some Aggressors would be a good combo. They have assault weapons so they can advance to keep up wtih the Libby, soften up units before the charge and pound with power fists along side the Libby. They probably aren't keeping up with Wings of San either though.
Outriders generally would, and would be fully entertaining.
Inceptors would without advancing, but they can deep strike and don't have a "nice" CCW to speak of.
Vanguard Vets aren't Primaris, but they are very Blood Angels'esque and make for some variety/options to Sanguinary Guard including TH/SS jumping options.
Hey breton, I just wanted to again thank you for your feedback. maybe I'll try two razor backs the bikers tho sound great. I love the models and would love to have them in my army. No doubt they can get into CC quickly. As for tank support, I think I'm going to go with two razorbacks when I get to 2,000 points. This guy on youtube is running the following list:
This looks like a really fun list! I love the model composition that this guy is using. I don't know how competitive is, but the dude seems to be convinced it'll hold up. I just bought Sang guard so those cats should be coming in the mail. I'm going to try Krull's list because I like it and I like the units in it. Though I like the idea of cheap razorbacks that can gun down people easy. I also like this idea
Eradicators with Melta are very BA flavored,
Though I'd probably have to take an impulsor and when that impulsor is loaded up he'd be a juicy target..
So many cool options and so many cool models. I just want to start playing already haha
thanks again guys
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/01 19:19:20
If you drop the 2 scouts units inn he last lst, you can take a unit of outriders. Which are great! Lots of attacks if they can charge!
I started with alost the same list as i mentioned before. I must say hough, the death company unit almost always fail to deliver!
They almost never win their points back. So maybe don't buy 15 of them strait away. Just try a few or proxy them first.
Hopefully they get better with 2 wounds if the points are ok.
This looks like a really fun list! I love the model composition that this guy is using. I don't know how competitive is, but the dude seems to be convinced it'll hold up. I just bought Sang guard so those cats should be coming in the mail. I'm going to try Krull's list because I like it and I like the units in it. Though I like the idea of cheap razorbacks that can gun down people easy. I also like this idea
Eradicators with Melta are very BA flavored,
Though I'd probably have to take an impulsor and when that impulsor is loaded up he'd be a juicy target..
So many cool options and so many cool models. I just want to start playing already haha
thanks again guys
Eradicators don’t fit an impulsor, they’re Gravis which is a two seats per butt only in Repulsors like Terminators are two seats per butt, only in Land Raiders thing.
Twin AssCan is Blood Angel Flavored. Melta and Twin AssCan are recurring themes in their kit.
The Storm Raven and Land Raider are likely partner units The Storm Raven is almost a flying Land Raider Crusader, and can be used to transport Termies (And maybe even the Libby Dread? Check it’s Wounds characteristic vs the Storm Raven entry).
