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Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran





This is a very rough cut based on what leaks we've seen from the Codex, and my guess for how the fluff is going to change as the DA absorb and convert to Primaris.
What do you think of the following - ASSUMING my guesses are either correct or not contradicted by the new codex and supplement -

Assumptions:
I think the DA Deathwing (First Company) is going to be staffed by Terminators Heavy Intercessors Aggressors and Eradicators becoming more of a "battle company" like other Chapters rather than Terminator Only as Primaris get integrated into the chapter.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Terminators lose the Deathwing rule, or to see the Gravis units find a way to get it.
One Speeder datasheet leaked showed Ravenwing under DA/Successor Chapter conditions. I assume Outriders and the other speeders will have similar.
Belial could become one of those Heavy Intercessor Captains. He may get Aggressor arm options. He may get Original Gravis Captain arms. He may not cross at all, but you can use the Heavy Intercessor dude (or any Primaris Master including the original Gravis Master) as a generic Deathwing Master.
Sammael is not going Primaris during 9th.
Deathwing and Ravenwing Lieutenant models/rules will still be non-existent or virtually so.

HQ
So I'm thinking getting some Heavy Intercessors, paint them bone white. Get Primaris Belial or the Heavy Intercessor Captain, painted Bone White. or a Non Primaris version
Some other Primaris HQ Chaplain, Libby, Primaris Interrogator Chappy (that uses the same model but different rules if they're finally incorporated) - or a non Primaris Ravewing one.
Only one of which max would be non-primaris.

Troops
Bone White Heavy Intercessors

Elites
Bone White Aggressors
Bone White Terminators

FA
Jet Black Outriders
Jet Black New Speeders
Bone White Inceptors?

HS
Bone White Eradicators

My questions are:

Assuming this is how the fluff goes, or the fluff doesn't contradict this guess as to how it WILL go eventually - would this work as a reasonable army for you to play against?
Do you think this list would be effective?

What about integrating more than just the Gravis units?

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





I doubt they will make such a drastic change maybe over time yeah but who really knows. I would wait until after the codex release I mean they could even go Lion el Johnson wakes up says “GO BACK TO BLACK ARMOR!” And bam now even the guesses for new colors is changed again. But I doubt aggressors will become white because they haven’t earned the inner circles trust yet I know they have allowed some Primaris into the 1st company but since aggressors are just basic heavy assault troops they haven’t earned the trust and are probably going through the psychoconditioning that all basic marines go through in the DA.
   
Made in us
Torture Victim in the Bowels of the Rock




Fort Worth, Texas

I think you're getting pretty far ahead of yourself with all of these assumptions. The point of the 1st Company for the Dark Angels isn't supposed to be a catchall for anybody with heavy armor. You earn your armor, you earn your Crux Terminatus. It makes some sense for Bladeguard Veterans to be part of the 1st Company because they're just that, veterans. It's a station in the DA hierarchy that doesn't just get handed to you because you're proficient with Terminator or Gravis armor. So Aggresors, Eradicators and especially Heavy Intercessors, a troop choice, don't really make sense to be indoctrinated into the Inner Circle for the reasons Stalked21 mentioned but also because they just haven't earned that honor.

1300pts of Dark Angels ready to repent. I mean, make their enemies repent. Yeah, that. 
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran





 stronglyworded wrote:
I think you're getting pretty far ahead of yourself with all of these assumptions. The point of the 1st Company for the Dark Angels isn't supposed to be a catchall for anybody with heavy armor. You earn your armor, you earn your Crux Terminatus. It makes some sense for Bladeguard Veterans to be part of the 1st Company because they're just that, veterans. It's a station in the DA hierarchy that doesn't just get handed to you because you're proficient with Terminator or Gravis armor. So Aggresors, Eradicators and especially Heavy Intercessors, a troop choice, don't really make sense to be indoctrinated into the Inner Circle for the reasons Stalked21 mentioned but also because they just haven't earned that honor.


I'm not saying Heavy Armor is 1st company, I'm saying 1st company is heavy armor. Primaris are going to get into the first company, and don't fit in Terminator Armor, nor can they all be shuffled to Company Master of the other 8 companies. So they're going to have to be outfitted somehow. I'm predicting instead of literally making Primaris Terminators, they'll shift DA's First Company using the same model they did for UM and BA. Sternguard Vets, Vanguard Vets. Only their Primaris versions. Gravis armor units - Aggressors, Heavy Intercessors, Inceptors. I'm even predicting UM get 1st company Heavy Intercessors before long to be Primaris Sternguard. A first company that sends two squads to 5 different companies on a loaner in exchange for 2 different squads from 5 different companies probably isn't going to survive much longer in the fluff. Assault Intercessors having an Assault shoulderpad and a Troops FOC slot are another clue I think, the Reserve Assault Companies now have a troop unit.

I realize GW isn't going to say this is how it is, and they're certainly not writing rules for it, but I'm tired of these models collecting dust because the army is a round peg in a square FOC slot. What I'm getting at, is assuming you see where I'm coming from and not trying to houserule deathwing etc rules onto Gravis that didn't already have it - would this make enough sense to you that it wouldn't break immersion/fluff for you?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Stalked21 wrote:
I doubt they will make such a drastic change maybe over time yeah but who really knows. I would wait until after the codex release I mean they could even go Lion el Johnson wakes up says “GO BACK TO BLACK ARMOR!” And bam now even the guesses for new colors is changed again. But I doubt aggressors will become white because they haven’t earned the inner circles trust yet I know they have allowed some Primaris into the 1st company but since aggressors are just basic heavy assault troops they haven’t earned the trust and are probably going through the psychoconditioning that all basic marines go through in the DA.


I wouldn't be surprised if Lion is the next Primarch to return. He's the easiest, he's theoretically on the other side of the rift from G, they don't get along so you get the drama. I would be surprised if he puts them Back In Black. Especially 4 months after they just sold us a bunch of Bladeguard and said Paint them White. People would be exceedingly pissed. Its more likely the 40K Lion goes white than the they tell us to repaint all our Deathwing black. GW would welcome the money but they aren't THAT stupid.

Primaris Marines are already over a century old post Indomitus Crusade (though I think 9th is going to Retcon, and be set in the Crusade as GW just figured out they REALLY screwed up not getting a summer campaign or two out of it) They're going to start earning 1st Company. As mentioned above, I'm just guessing at how they'll work it using previous 1st company changes to UM and BA. And Heavy Intercessors FINALLY give you a way to get even Quasi-Terminator Troop slot Ob Sec units to make a DW/RW combination army again. I'd mix in Terminators, but I don't see a "Devastator" variant anywhere but Eradicators maybe speeders not sure how much they'll be.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/15 05:17:42


My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





I agree that GW isn’t that insane when it comes to making players rage BUT I will admit maybe in 9.5 or even 10th edition we will see more additions to the Deathwing/Ravenwing we have already seen the Gravis armored Bladeguard and the new fast attack options wearing the black livery of the Ravenwing but I have already painted my Primaris Marines Green including my aggressors. I am painting my Bladeguard as Deathwing since they have already confirmed that they will be getting the keyword in the next codex. I feel more like they will continue to use the “inner circle” stratagem or for example the “veteran Intercessors” but add the keywords for the other types of Primaris forces. If anything wait on making a 1st company Master because knowing GW they may kill off some characters or even Belial I.e how Master belthazar from 7th edition was killed and replaced with Master Lazarus or the first Primaris marine to be inducted officially into the inner circle. Or how Master Gabriel was killed in order for Master Belial to take command of the Deathwing. Either way I see a lot more units being released as well as many many MANY rules changing and being replaced in the next 2 years.
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran





Oh yeah, I’m not going to commit to paint until after the codex, just wondering how people would feel with white heavy Intercessors, maybe Gravis for other FOC slots missing stuff - using their book rules - painted bone white as Deathwing FOC-troops to shoehorn a DW/RW army into a Batallion chart to try and get some/most of the flavor since GW hasn’t kept up with their unique construction.

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
 
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