Switch Theme:

DIY Chapter Master character for homebrew chapter  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





I think Tristanleo and Spiralingcadaver hit my points for me.

You generally want your homebrew units to feel *different* from existing units but not *better* than existing units. Choose 2 or 3 unique things about this guy that you really want to see represented through tabletop mechanics, then use the fewest special rules possible to represent that.

You gave him a higher base strength than a normal marine. What in his fluff says that's so much stronger than a normal marine that it warrants a strength boost? Why would he win an arm wrestling contest against every other primaris marine?

You gave him a lightning claw that boosts his strength further (so a wolf claw basically) that also weakens invul saves. What is it about this claw that makes you feel it shouldn't be represented by a normal lightning claw?

You gave him Aerodynamix Engines. What is it about his jet pack that makes him so much more mobile than an interceptor? What makes him more agile than Dante?

You gave him the ability to heal (and come back to life) in the middle of the battle. What makes his ability to heal up different from another interceptor? What makes him as good at coming back to life as Roboute?

Identify which of those things are actually essential to the concept you're trying to convey on the tabletop. If one of them doesn't seem essential, drop it and congratulate yourself on finding a reason to lower his points. And at the end of the draft, ask yourself, "Does every other chapter master wish he were this guy?" And if the answer is yes, nerf him some more. If you could ignore chapter keywords and include any of the other named marine characters instead of this guy, would you? If the answer is a clear, "No," then nerf him again.
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





NeoAigaion wrote:
EDIT: Profile updated!

Star Panthers Chapter Tactics: Hungry for Battle and Stealthy (see Codex: Space Marines)

[Adamas, Supreme Commander of the Star Panthers]
M12" WS2+ BS2+ S4 T4 W6 A6 LD10 SV2+

Weapons
- Boseman Claws: Melee, S+1, AP-3, D2, you can re-roll failed wound rolls

Abilities
- Angels of Death, Teleport Strike
- Chapter Master (see Codex: Space Marines)
- Crushing Charge (from Inceptors, see Codex: Space Marines)
- Iron Halo (4++ save)
- Aerodynamax Jets (can charge and advance in the same turn)
- Kinetic Dampeners (reduce all damage taken by 1, to a minimum of 1)

Warlord Trait
- The Imperium's Sword (see Codex: Space Marines)

Faction Keywords: IMPERIUM, ADEPTUS ASTARTES, STAR PANTHERS
Keywords: CHARACTER, INFANTRY, CHAPTER MASTER, JUMP PACK, FLY, PRIMARIS, ADAMAS


I think you're pretty close to something reasonable, personally. Looking at the stats of Calgar, Mephiston (a mobile primaris beatstick), and Dante, your statline seems to be in the right ballpark. Offensively, you're just slightly less lethal than Dante. Defensively, you're right there with Dante except that you have the Kinetic Dampeners (-1 damage). Right now, your unique things include:

* Crushing Charge
* Aerodynamax Jets
* Kinetic Dampeners
* The claws.

I feel like ditching one or two of those things would make people a lot more comfortable against this guy if for no other reason than it shrinks the list of deviations from a normal chapter master that they have to memorize. Crushing Charge is a rule tied to gravis armor. As your keywords and Toughness as well as your previous comment all indicate you're no longer picturing this guy in gravis armor, I suggest ditching this rule.

To my mind, Kinetic Dampeners and Boseman Claws are both clear nods to T'Challa while the Aerodynamax Jets just kind of feel like an add on. They also "double dip" on charge bonuses with your chapter tactics. Every character that wants to be in melee wants to charge after advancing. Do you feel that the jets are essential to Adamas's representation on the tabletop? If not, I suggest dropping the jets (but keeping a conventional jumppack and movement stat). That would leave you with comparable stats to Dante. You'd have a bit less offense than him but a solid improvement on defense from the Kinetic Dampeners. You'd have two pieces of wargear nodding to Black Panther and one of the best generic marine warlord traits.

After ditching the jets and crushing charge, I'd price this guy the same as Dante (175) and then tweak him from there.

Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





NeoAigaion wrote:

Side note: Would making the claws AP-4 be a bit too much, thus should I keep them AP-3?


Well, being AP-3 and Strength +1 already makes them an improved version of Lightning and Wolf Claws. 40k is full of extra special versions of weapons that have better profiles because reasons, but you have to ask yourself if you really want part of your fluff to be that your guy has a weapon that puts some of the most powerful weapons in the imperium to shame. How much better are his claws than normal lightning claws, and why? Are they really as good at penetrating armor as a meltagun? The galaxy is a big place, and you can totally find a fluff excuse for having better-than-average weapons, but the more powerful your weapon, the more you have to wonder why no one is replicating the tech or waging a war to steal the claw from him. An extra point of strength, AP, or Damage represents the use of exotic materials, rare levels of genius craftsmanship, or a nod to a history of performance that is noteworthy even among the sea of bloodshed that is the 41st millenium. Your claws have all three of these things.


Mechanically, going from AP-3 to AP-4 probably wouldn't break your character (I'd probably add 15 or 20 points to the price tag), but it might make your opponent roll their eyes.
"He has a lightning claw, right? So my phoenix lord's 2+ save goes down to a 4+."
"Oh, no. He has special lightning claws that are AP-3."
"Ah... So a 5+."
"Oh wait. I decided they were even more special than that. So you get a 6+."
"...K."
"And did I mention they're Damage 2? So he only needs half as many wounds to kill you."

Personally (and this is just me, not an attack on yourself or others), I feel a bit cringe if I end up giving a special character a straight up better version of an existing weapon. Being okay with giving your unique characters generic weapons is classy. Just watch your friends' faces when you tell them your SC is equipped with normal wargear. See them mentally adding a monocle to the face of the gentleman of good taste before them.

Partly this is because I really prefer special characters to be different rather than better, and unique weapons especially tend to just be more killy versions of their GW counterparts.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/20 23:30:12


 
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Fair points on the claws. 15 or 20 points to go from ap-3 to ap-4 is probably too many. Much smaller than that and it's a small enough increase to the overall pricetag to maybe not worry about for now. If you start him in the ballpark of 180 points, you can raise or lower his points based on performance.

Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





NeoAigaion wrote:
I have a google document with Adamas' latest profile. Also added another Star Panthers character.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aUFw2a5WOVXSoyVeZYS_Q9NvcIuadHHklumTlMYd4-A/edit?usp=sharing

Feedback will continue to be welcomed.


I'm not a fan of halving the amount of damage Adamas takes. Reducing incoming damage by 1 was powerful, frustrating for Dd3 damage weapons, and made D3 need an extra wound to put him down. Halving incoming damage turns even Dd6 weapons into basically Dd3 weapons and makes all D2 weapons just D1 (meaning you'd need to get 6 wounds past his saves and FNP to put him down. The FNP on top of halving damage makes it extra annoying to face.

If I were you, I'd pick one of the following:
* 3+ invul (it's going away for smash captains, but we've been killing smash captains for a while now)
* 5+ FNP
* Reduce damage by 1

Any one of those rules will convey the idea that this guy's armor is tougher than usual. No need to put a hat on a hat. Double-dipping on buffs of the same type (so having multiple defensive buffs or multiple offensive buffs) tends to quickly get out of hand.

Some thoughts on Daelo:
* What kind of weapon is Stormstriker? I feel like you're going for some sort of lightning/EMP weapon, in which case you might want to consider stealing the haywire weapon rules.
* Your master-crafted heavy bolter will just be a normal heavy bolter when the new marine update comes around.
* Toughness 6? The idea being that he's wearing gravis armor (T5) that has been improved to give him a 2+ save instead of a 3+ save, but also his armor is so good that it offers an extra +1 Toughness on top of that and also has a built-in forcefield that no other tech priest could figure out how to make?

What's the elevator pitch for this guy? In one sentence, what's his fluff? Because everything about him seems like you took a standard tech priest and just gave it a raw power boost. All of his weapons except the servo-arm are just straight up better versions of their non-mastercrafted counterparts. He has the Faith & Fury ability that makes him better than the average tech priest at patching up vehicles. His gravis armor is superior to every other suit of gravis armor in the galaxy in 3 different ways (better save, better Toughness, has an invul). And on top of that, he gets to heal himself automatically every turn.

How comfortable are you explaining to your opponent that your tech priest is better than his tech priest in every way? And is your fluff explanation something other than, "I guess my guy is just smarter and better at technology than yours"?

You might see if you can find the rules for Lias Issodon floating around. I'm not sure he survived the transition to 9th, but he's generally been a pretty good example over the years of a named marine character that is different from but not better than other chapter masters. His melee weapon, iirc, is just a humble power sword. He has a special gun that shoots some decent dakka, but nothing that will turn the tide of battle. I think he's generally had a 2+ armor save from basically artificer armor; not terminator armor with an invul and built in deepstrike. Not super special armor with a bunch of special rules. Just a hardy 2+ armor save. When other marines had the ability to blast a chunk of the board with an orbital bombardment, he instead got to do a couple of wounds before the game started representing sabotage and booby traps. His biggest selling point is that he's always let you sneak forward (via infiltrate, outflank, or pregame scout style deployment depending on the edition) with units that normally wouldn't be allowed to sneak forward like that.

He's not a powerhouse. He's not unkillable. An army with him in it plays differently from an army without him. That's a good target to aim for when making characters. I don't want to discourage you in your homebrewing efforts. We've all made over the top super duper versions of generic characters at one point or another. But how would you describe as Adamas other than saying he's, "A lightning claw jump pack captain but better." What is Daelo other than, "a tech priest but better?"

 
Forum Index » 40K Proposed Rules
Go to: