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Made in ca
Revving Ravenwing Biker



Canada

The battle report in the latest WD refers to Bladeguard Veteran, Assault Intercessors, Outriders and Eradicators as Core units. The Space Marine player is using the new Codex and refers to a Warlord Trait that gives Core units Objective Secured.

So it would seem that the Core label will be granted quite widely. This is good!

p.s. - The description of the Warlord Trait (the actual rules text is not provided) indicates that Core units have to be within an aura of the Captain to gain the Obsec (assuming they are not already Troops that have it of course).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/20 16:43:41


All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
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Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian






Germany

I wouldnt be surprised if 8/10 marine units have CORE, but only 3 or 4/10 xenos units.
   
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The dark hollows of Kentucky

Is it? If CORE is spread around too freely doesn't that defeat its purpose of limiting the number of units that can benefit from things like reroll auras and certain powerful strategems and other stackable buffs?
   
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Perfect Shot Dark Angels Predator Pilot





Or another way to look at it - Primaris infantry types you'd expect to be core (veteran unit/troops unit/bike unit/heavy support unit) all got what was expected.

 
   
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Pile of Necron Spare Parts





America

I feel like the idea behind Core wasn't originally an attempt to nerf rerolls, but more like just an excuse to not camp your characters behind long range vehicles and make them lead closer to the front. The fact that seemingly almost all infantry seems to get the keyword reinforces this theory imo. While it is cool to try to make your HQs a little more active, I think it's safe to say it's probably not what most people wanted :/
   
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Right behind you.

 BroodSpawn wrote:
Or another way to look at it - Primaris infantry types you'd expect to be core (veteran unit/troops unit/bike unit/heavy support unit) all got what was expected.

Yes...expected.

Guys, they literally talk about and give examples here:
The Core keyword is used to identify units that form the fighting… well, core, of an army. These are most commonly represented by units of line infantry, though this doesn’t mean it’s exclusive to Troops, nor just Infantry.

In the case of the first two books, Codex: Space Marines and Codex: Necrons many Elite units such as Terminator Squads and Lychguard, as well as Fast Attack units like Bike Squads and Tomb Blades, have the Core keyword. Even some Vehicles will be Core units too, where appropriate.


'Core' seems to mean 'Infantry and Bikers'.
   
Made in gb
Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest





Stevenage, UK

I'm not surprised at how widespread Core looks to be going. That in and of itself, I was kinda expecting, especially from that article.
What I'm not such a fan of, is the idea of tying any source of 'Objective Secured' to it. I sincerely hope that such abilities are few and far between, and very limited in their scope (eg. within a 6" aura and dies if the character does).

Otherwise? If it's too prevalent, it takes something away from Troops, which makes them an unattractive prospect in a game full of fantastic Elite alternatives.

"Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch  
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







My confusion is that the article that talks about CORE units mentioned Captains sitting in the back baby-sitting tanks as something they wanted to avoid, but then they're giving CORE to anything that isn't a tank. Couldn't they have just made the auras work on non-vehicle models?

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
Homebrew oldhammer project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790996.page#10896267 
   
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Revving Ravenwing Biker



Canada

These auras do not affect Characters, though, so I suppose it stops Character buffing-parties.

All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





I've said this before but it bears repeating, in space marine codex 8.0 the only units that had access to chapter tactics where infantry bikes and dreadnoughts. my money is THOSE are what GW see as marine core troops.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in gb
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets





Cardiff

Core is essentially a way to prevent the unintended interactions eg Leviathans. Anyone expecting it to not apply to the bulk of a Marine force was kidding themselves.

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
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Fixture of Dakka





TangoTwoBravo wrote:
The battle report in the latest WD refers to Bladeguard Veteran, Assault Intercessors, Outriders and Eradicators as Core units. The Space Marine player is using the new Codex and refers to a Warlord Trait that gives Core units Objective Secured.

So it would seem that the Core label will be granted quite widely. This is good!


Eh. It just cements Eradicators as the go to unless there is also something else that changes.

Either there's more to this picture or there will be a lot of unused models in the book.

   
Made in ca
Revving Ravenwing Biker



Canada

The Warlord trait in the battle report affecting Core troops indicates that more benefits than just Aura buffs will only apply to Core units. I won't be surprised if many Stratagems/Doctrines/Canticles etc only apply to Core troops.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 JohnnyHell wrote:
Core is essentially a way to prevent the unintended interactions eg Leviathans. Anyone expecting it to not apply to the bulk of a Marine force was kidding themselves.


Agreed. I hope that most FW Dreads etc do not get the Core label, for example, while the standard book ones do.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/20 16:00:55


All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 Daedalus81 wrote:
TangoTwoBravo wrote:
The battle report in the latest WD refers to Bladeguard Veteran, Assault Intercessors, Outriders and Eradicators as Core units. The Space Marine player is using the new Codex and refers to a Warlord Trait that gives Core units Objective Secured.

So it would seem that the Core label will be granted quite widely. This is good!


Eh. It just cements Eradicators as the go to unless there is also something else that changes.

Either there's more to this picture or there will be a lot of unused models in the book.


why will there be tons of unused models?

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran





 AnomanderRake wrote:
My confusion is that the article that talks about CORE units mentioned Captains sitting in the back baby-sitting tanks as something they wanted to avoid, but then they're giving CORE to anything that isn't a tank. Couldn't they have just made the auras work on non-vehicle models?


They get more control and fine tuning here. plus it sounds like they might finally be working on the non standard armies getting ObSec with a strat to give CORE ObSec. White Scar Bikers, Ravenwing (Bikers if not more), Deathwing will be able to get ObSec through CORE - Eldar's Wild Rider Army may be able to get it that way too.

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
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TangoTwoBravo wrote:
The battle report in the latest WD refers to Bladeguard Veteran, Assault Intercessors, Outriders and Eradicators as Core units. The Space Marine player is using the new Codex and refers to a Warlord Trait that gives Core units Objective Secured.

So it would seem that the Core label will be granted quite widely. This is good!


Can I ask where you read that please, looking through the battle report and I can't see reference to bladeguard nor eradicators as core. Page 44 suggests the opposite where they say the skorpekh destroyers were withing charge range of the last Eradicator, then say they wanted to focus down the last of the core units targeting the outriders and intercessors.
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran





 Daedalus81 wrote:

Either there's more to this picture or there will be a lot of unused models in the book.


Not necessarily, at least for the fluffy fun lists. Assuming the report of a Strat to give CORE Objective Secured it opens up more varieties of lists. I'm waiting for the codex and supplement to be sure, but I'm already pretty much planning on painting some Heavy Intercessors in Deathwing livery for my Combi-wing and finally getting to play that again. The whole list, or most of it, could be ObSec between bikers, Termies, a couple Heavy Intercessor Squads potentially for troops, and with any luck at all - Speeders. If you're willing to give up the Battalion or don't need it, it gets even easier. White Scar Bikers are back, with Rhino Rush-style support. I expect the 7th Ed Formations to inspire more than a few lists as well. We probably won't get the Monty Haul bonus rules, but a lot of those combos were already decent. If they DO bring back some Formation Detachments its just more likely.

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in ca
Revving Ravenwing Biker



Canada

Dudeface wrote:
TangoTwoBravo wrote:
The battle report in the latest WD refers to Bladeguard Veteran, Assault Intercessors, Outriders and Eradicators as Core units. The Space Marine player is using the new Codex and refers to a Warlord Trait that gives Core units Objective Secured.

So it would seem that the Core label will be granted quite widely. This is good!


Can I ask where you read that please, looking through the battle report and I can't see reference to bladeguard nor eradicators as core. Page 44 suggests the opposite where they say the skorpekh destroyers were withing charge range of the last Eradicator, then say they wanted to focus down the last of the core units targeting the outriders and intercessors.


Page 32 - the player states that "all my Core units gain Objective Secured if they are near my Warlord...That means all five of my units..." Her five Units in the list are Bladeguard Veterans, two units of Assault Intecessors, a unit of Outriders and a unit of Eradicators. I'm making an inference here, which I realize is not as ironclad as a list of Core units.

All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
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BrianDavion wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
TangoTwoBravo wrote:
The battle report in the latest WD refers to Bladeguard Veteran, Assault Intercessors, Outriders and Eradicators as Core units. The Space Marine player is using the new Codex and refers to a Warlord Trait that gives Core units Objective Secured.

So it would seem that the Core label will be granted quite widely. This is good!


Eh. It just cements Eradicators as the go to unless there is also something else that changes.

Either there's more to this picture or there will be a lot of unused models in the book.


why will there be tons of unused models?


Because basically anything that doesn't have CORE will have to be 10%ish(depending on the army and the likelyhood of most units being able to benefit from 2 or more buff auras) better baseline than anything that DOES have CORE to acccount for the additional bonuses being core allows for.

For example, if bladeguard vets have core but assault terminators don't have core(unlikely but illustrative), assault terminators have to be at least moderately better without buff characters than bladeguard vets are without buff characters to balance out how good bladeguard are WITH buff characters.

2500pts
2500
3000


 
   
Made in gb
Frenzied Berserker Terminator




TangoTwoBravo wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
TangoTwoBravo wrote:
The battle report in the latest WD refers to Bladeguard Veteran, Assault Intercessors, Outriders and Eradicators as Core units. The Space Marine player is using the new Codex and refers to a Warlord Trait that gives Core units Objective Secured.

So it would seem that the Core label will be granted quite widely. This is good!


Can I ask where you read that please, looking through the battle report and I can't see reference to bladeguard nor eradicators as core. Page 44 suggests the opposite where they say the skorpekh destroyers were withing charge range of the last Eradicator, then say they wanted to focus down the last of the core units targeting the outriders and intercessors.


Page 32 - the player states that "all my Core units gain Objective Secured if they are near my Warlord...That means all five of my units..." Her five Units in the list are Bladeguard Veterans, two units of Assault Intecessors, a unit of Outriders and a unit of Eradicators. I'm making an inference here, which I realize is not as ironclad as a list of Core units.


Ah yes I see it, I'm kind of annoyed they haven't just directly addressed core etc in the articles. They tiptoed with half references far too much.
   
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The dark hollows of Kentucky

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Core is essentially a way to prevent the unintended interactions eg Leviathans. Anyone expecting it to not apply to the bulk of a Marine force was kidding themselves.

That could be. By making CORE a keyword added to datasheets you could avoid situations where some strategems or abilities that target DREADNOUGHTS (or some other keyword, such as VEHICLE) are perfectly fine on certain units with that keyword but OP on others. A strategem could be worded "targeted <CORE> <DREADNOUGHT>" for instance. If something is suddenly having unintended interactions with CORE abilities you can simply remove the keyword from the datasheet in an errata.
   
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Confessor Of Sins




Breton wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:

Either there's more to this picture or there will be a lot of unused models in the book.


Not necessarily, at least for the fluffy fun lists.


Gonna stop you right there.

Yeah, fluff lists don't care about stuff like this, they're about theme and following the narrative. The actual power of the list is of course very low down on the priority list if not outright irrelevant.

Any list that's trying to be competitive will have to contend with the possibility(and it is just a possibility, we have no idea how big of an advantage CORE will actually end up being. It could be that it's only moderately impactful or it could essentially 'delete' units that don't have it. No way to know until the book is released and test games start happening.) that anything lacking CORE is no longer able to compete. Even if you're just trying to pwn your buddies face down at the FLGS and not trying to win LVO or Adepticon.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/20 16:37:28


2500pts
2500
3000


 
   
Made in gb
Frenzied Berserker Terminator




ERJAK wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
TangoTwoBravo wrote:
The battle report in the latest WD refers to Bladeguard Veteran, Assault Intercessors, Outriders and Eradicators as Core units. The Space Marine player is using the new Codex and refers to a Warlord Trait that gives Core units Objective Secured.

So it would seem that the Core label will be granted quite widely. This is good!


Eh. It just cements Eradicators as the go to unless there is also something else that changes.

Either there's more to this picture or there will be a lot of unused models in the book.


why will there be tons of unused models?


Because basically anything that doesn't have CORE will have to be 10%ish(depending on the army and the likelyhood of most units being able to benefit from 2 or more buff auras) better baseline than anything that DOES have CORE to acccount for the additional bonuses being core allows for.

For example, if bladeguard vets have core but assault terminators don't have core(unlikely but illustrative), assault terminators have to be at least moderately better without buff characters than bladeguard vets are without buff characters to balance out how good bladeguard are WITH buff characters.


It's an opportunity cost though. What about if you don't take a captain/lieutenants? Why would you even bother with core if they're 10% more expensive because of a buff you don't have?
   
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TangoTwoBravo wrote:

Page 32 - the player states that "all my Core units gain Objective Secured if they are near my Warlord...That means all five of my units..." Her five Units in the list are Bladeguard Veterans, two units of Assault Intecessors, a unit of Outriders and a unit of Eradicators. I'm making an inference here, which I realize is not as ironclad as a list of Core units.


Well that's depressing. If it's only in range of the Warlord, or worse one turn and in range of the warlord, all that variety this could have opened up is back in the bin.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/20 16:49:12


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Dudeface wrote:

It's an opportunity cost though. What about if you don't take a captain/lieutenants? Why would you even bother with core if they're 10% more expensive because of a buff you don't have?


Right...something has to tip the balance. You can't cost up CORE, because they may not have the buffs. But you could cost down vehicles, because their buffs are a known entity. And given that spells and strats are getting this treatment the variables get even smaller.

So....vehicles get cheaper. Maybe.

   
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ERJAK wrote:

Gonna stop you right there.
At the lists you scoff at?

Yeah, fluff lists don't care about stuff like this, they're about theme and following the narrative. The actual power of the list is of course very low down on the priority list if not outright irrelevant.
Potentially, but not always. It's possible to make fluffy and competitive lists. Or has been in the past. And this could have gone a long way towards making those fluffy lists competitive. It doesn't sound like it will anymore, but it could have.

Any list that's trying to be competitive will have to contend with the possibility(and it is just a possibility, we have no idea how big of an advantage CORE will actually end up being. It could be that it's only moderately impactful or it could essentially 'delete' units that don't have it. No way to know until the book is released and test games start happening.) that anything lacking CORE is no longer able to compete. Even if you're just trying to pwn your buddies face down at the FLGS and not trying to win LVO or Adepticon.

I'm now confused. If fluffy lists using CORE don't matter, but CORE could delete any unit that doesn't have CORE because you have to have CORE to be competitive? What exactly are you arguing here?

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in gb
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets





Cardiff

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
 JohnnyHell wrote:
Core is essentially a way to prevent the unintended interactions eg Leviathans. Anyone expecting it to not apply to the bulk of a Marine force was kidding themselves.

That could be. By making CORE a keyword added to datasheets you could avoid situations where some strategems or abilities that target DREADNOUGHTS (or some other keyword, such as VEHICLE) are perfectly fine on certain units with that keyword but OP on others. A strategem could be worded "targeted <CORE> <DREADNOUGHT>" for instance. If something is suddenly having unintended interactions with CORE abilities you can simply remove the keyword from the datasheet in an errata.


Totally. A very easy fix for unintended stuff without a convoluted FAQ.

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in us
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The dark hollows of Kentucky

Dudeface wrote:
Spoiler:
ERJAK wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
TangoTwoBravo wrote:
The battle report in the latest WD refers to Bladeguard Veteran, Assault Intercessors, Outriders and Eradicators as Core units. The Space Marine player is using the new Codex and refers to a Warlord Trait that gives Core units Objective Secured.

So it would seem that the Core label will be granted quite widely. This is good!


Eh. It just cements Eradicators as the go to unless there is also something else that changes.

Either there's more to this picture or there will be a lot of unused models in the book.


why will there be tons of unused models?


Because basically anything that doesn't have CORE will have to be 10%ish(depending on the army and the likelyhood of most units being able to benefit from 2 or more buff auras) better baseline than anything that DOES have CORE to acccount for the additional bonuses being core allows for.

For example, if bladeguard vets have core but assault terminators don't have core(unlikely but illustrative), assault terminators have to be at least moderately better without buff characters than bladeguard vets are without buff characters to balance out how good bladeguard are WITH buff characters.


It's an opportunity cost though. What about if you don't take a captain/lieutenants? Why would you even bother with core if they're 10% more expensive because of a buff you don't have?

Because CORE pertains to more than just character auras. There is a strategem in the Silver Templars rules that applies only to CORE units. It is likely that the same will be true for many psychic powers, litanys, prayers, etc. A unit without the CORE keyword will need to be inherently better than those with it to compete with them for inclusion in a list.
   
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As I said when the rule was initially previewed, the impact will 100% depend on whether they have the balls to not give it out like candy to all the best space marine units.

Giving it to gravis largely defeats the purpose and just makes those units even better than the vehicle alternatives. And if aggressors have it, so much for reducing the ridiculous amount of rerolls.

If the info in WD is accurate, it looks like GW may have once again managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut





So that still leave the question of if Aggressors have core, but I would consider it likely considering the other units that are now confirmed.

Gee, where are those people who were quickly to say Marines would be nerfed because the 'op' units would not get Core.
   
 
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