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Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut





Hello guys,

Today I bought a box of Primaris Infiltrators because these are actually fine models compared to the other stuff which the Restartes range has to offer.
I wanted to ask here in how the above units differ from a background perspective. So is there more to it than that the former just disrupt enemy communication and the latter have fantastic "X-Ray" vision?
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





a few differances.

A notable one from a lore POV is that Infiltrators are considered "battleline" troops. and thus in a typical Order of Battle would fill the place of tactical squads, intercessors etc. Incursor's are actually, despite being troops, classed as a close support squad, so fill the role of assault marines, bikes, inceptors etc.

this is mostly irrelevant, but does mean that a marine vanguard company might consist of 60 marines equipped as infiltrators, 20 as incursors, and 20 as I dunno eliminators?

secondly, beyond just "X-ray vision" incursors are noted to carrying a gak ton of sensors over all. they've pretty much "AWACs Marines" as I understand it

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/25 18:54:36


Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut





That's quite odd. The Incursors have no outstanding gear which would qualify them as assault troops of any kind with the exception of the haywire mine.
   
Made in us
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon





 Strg Alt wrote:
That's quite odd. The Incursors have no outstanding gear which would qualify them as assault troops of any kind with the exception of the haywire mine.

Except the paired combat blades.....
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut





Yeah, you have a point. The sculptor though hid the knives on the leg armour instead of giving the hobbyist the option of assembling a model dual-wielding those fancy blades.
   
Made in gb
Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought




Nottingham

As said above, Infiltrators are outright... well, infiltrators. More based around operating isolated for extended periods of time, and function as a Battleline in the Codex. Their comms relay and Helix Adept lean into this, allowing them to operating outside of the main thrust of the force.

Incursors aren't so far removed from combat engineers or sappers. The mine and paired combat blades put a bit of emphasis on CQC combat, and their sensor array and whole "no cover saves" thing would lend credence to them being based in close quarters, low visibility engagements, suggested by their Codex designation as a Close Support unit. I'd have loved if Incursors got access to meltabombs or a breaching charge instead of the mine as an option.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/25 20:30:50


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Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

 Strg Alt wrote:
Yeah, you have a point. The sculptor though hid the knives on the leg armour instead of giving the hobbyist the option of assembling a model dual-wielding those fancy blades.

No dual-wielders, but a couple of poses you can make have them holding one of the knives, including one about to throw a knife.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 9/25/20, including modeled wargear options):
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Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut





 ZergSmasher wrote:
 Strg Alt wrote:
Yeah, you have a point. The sculptor though hid the knives on the leg armour instead of giving the hobbyist the option of assembling a model dual-wielding those fancy blades.

No dual-wielders, but a couple of poses you can make have them holding one of the knives, including one about to throw a knife.


The phrase "Stick around" comes to mind:

https://youtu.be/EXjfvx-k1Ms

At least now the question is settled in what colour scheme they will be painted.


   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





At least now the question is settled in what colour scheme they will be painted


raven guard?

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut





BrianDavion wrote:
At least now the question is settled in what colour scheme they will be painted


raven guard?


Nah, I already own a fully fledged SM chapter from 4th which is painted in black. Back in the day I thought doing black power armour was not time consuming. BIG mistake on my part!

All those edges highlighting with "Codex Grey" nearly drove me insane and forced me to paint all the remaining SM models in my collection in a different way thus creating two more chapters. However those new chapters have a very low model count compared to the first one.

I was thinking about giving them a jungle camo look which consists of five colors and a final wash. The IKs in the link were painted in that way:

https://ibb.co/album/nR7tJf

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/26 08:56:27


 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Master with Gauntlets of Macragge





Upstate, New York

I did my infiltrators in arctic camo. It suits the models.
Spoiler:




Plus no edge highlights in camo!

I didn’t bother to give them the battleline arrow on the shoulder. It’s one thing to hide your chapter colors (which should never be done) but I figure units markings are fine to skip.

Ultramarines, 3rd Co. and friends, 13K+ Slowly growing 3Kish
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Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 Strg Alt wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
At least now the question is settled in what colour scheme they will be painted


raven guard?


Nah, I already own a fully fledged SM chapter from 4th which is painted in black. Back in the day I thought doing black power armour was not time consuming. BIG mistake on my part!

All those edges highlighting with "Codex Grey" nearly drove me insane and forced me to paint all the remaining SM models in my collection in a different way thus creating two more chapters. However those new chapters have a very low model count compared to the first one.

I was thinking about giving them a jungle camo look which consists of five colors and a final wash. The IKs in the link were painted in that way:

https://ibb.co/album/nR7tJf



try a drybrush in eshen grey, it's quick and looks good.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut





@Nevelon:
Looking good. Now you need a couple dozen WWII German zombies and you can reenact the movie DEAD SNOW.

@Brian Davion:
Drybrushing leaves the model either dusty or dirty and I wanted a clean black look for my SM power armour. Besides I already use the drybrushing technique for all my various Nurgle forces.

SM Grave Diggers (GD):
https://ibb.co/album/41vTnG

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/26 13:41:07


 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Master with Gauntlets of Macragge





Upstate, New York

 Strg Alt wrote:
@Nevelon:
Looking good. Now you need a couple dozen WWII German zombies and you can reenact the movie DEAD SNOW.


Great movie, I should watch it again sometime.

Unfortunately no zombies in these guys’s future. My undead army is (mostly) rot-free. And come to think of it, I’m not sure if the carrion are in the current rules. So might be back to 100% dry and/or etherial. Plus they are on classic goblin green flocked bases, so would clash.

They are gearing up to fight some Tyranids, who are also on snow bases. So endless alien hordes rather than shambling zombie ones. Still ends with the good guys being disemboweled and eaten, so pretty much the same. Just with more chittering and less moaning.

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Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut





Ah, so your Infiltrators travelled back in time to fight the Tyranids on Macragge during their first clash in history?
This reminds me of a new video game RIFTBREAKER in which the player builds & defends a base from alien creatures while piloting a mecha.
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Master with Gauntlets of Macragge





Upstate, New York

 Strg Alt wrote:
Ah, so your Infiltrators travelled back in time to fight the Tyranids on Macragge during their first clash in history?
This reminds me of a new video game RIFTBREAKER in which the player builds & defends a base from alien creatures while piloting a mecha.


Well, the Infiltrators just got the bases to match the rest of my Ultras, and camo to blend. If I ever do any historical reenactments, I’ll stick with firstborn. My ‘Nids are being painted as leviathan not behemoth anyway. So it’s not the battle of Macragge, but some other, completely unrelated battle of Ultras vs. Nids on a snowy field.

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Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 Nevelon wrote:
 Strg Alt wrote:
Ah, so your Infiltrators travelled back in time to fight the Tyranids on Macragge during their first clash in history?
This reminds me of a new video game RIFTBREAKER in which the player builds & defends a base from alien creatures while piloting a mecha.


Well, the Infiltrators just got the bases to match the rest of my Ultras, and camo to blend. If I ever do any historical reenactments, I’ll stick with firstborn. My ‘Nids are being painted as leviathan not behemoth anyway. So it’s not the battle of Macragge, but some other, completely unrelated battle of Ultras vs. Nids on a snowy field.


The Ultramarines fought 'nids more then once on a common type of terrain!? no way!

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in ru
Longtime Dakkanaut



Moscow, Russia

Incursors are designed to get enemies out of cover on objectives and then plant their mine on it, and Infiltrators are designed to keep enemies off of objectives.

In theory they should work well together.
   
Made in us
Thunderhawk Pilot Dropping From Orbit






Across the Rubicon

Alcibiades wrote:
Incursors are designed to get enemies out of cover on objectives and then plant their mine on it, and Infiltrators are designed to keep enemies off of objectives.

In theory they should work well together.


I think there is something to be said about the idea of Infiltrators secure the position, Incursors fortifying that position and grav chute Reivers paratrooping to reinforcement it. However, I am not entirely convinced it is a workable tabletop solution as a that is a lot resources to make work with a couple of failure points.

At the same time, [In Sam Jackson's voice from Jackie Brown] "When you absolutely, positively got to hold a position from every heretic, xeno and mutant on the planet, accept no substitutes."

   
Made in us
Ultramarine Master with Gauntlets of Macragge





Upstate, New York

 Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:
Alcibiades wrote:
Incursors are designed to get enemies out of cover on objectives and then plant their mine on it, and Infiltrators are designed to keep enemies off of objectives.

In theory they should work well together.


I think there is something to be said about the idea of Infiltrators secure the position, Incursors fortifying that position and grav chute Reivers paratrooping to reinforcement it. However, I am not entirely convinced it is a workable tabletop solution as a that is a lot resources to make work with a couple of failure points.

At the same time, [In Sam Jackson's voice from Jackie Brown] "When you absolutely, positively got to hold a position from every heretic, xeno and mutant on the planet, accept no substitutes."


Reivers are not about taking or holding positions. They are high mobility hit and run disruption. They don’t go after straight fights or hold ground (unless forced). Hit where unexpected, fade before force can be brought to bear, repeat. Disrupt and sow confusion and terror.

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Made in us
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I mean, that's nice in theory, but in actual fact they're Intercessors or Assault Intercessors with special deployment rules and substandard guns (and now blades).
They've got the same mobility as everyone else once they hit ground, unless they're specifically scaling buildings AND have grapnels (which aren't cheap).
They certainly don't have any ability to avoid straight fights, and no ability to repeat 'hit where unexpected,' even assuming they can manage to do that at all. (And Terminators and Invictors do that just as well)

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2020/09/28 01:57:46


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran





 Nevelon wrote:
 Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:
Alcibiades wrote:
Incursors are designed to get enemies out of cover on objectives and then plant their mine on it, and Infiltrators are designed to keep enemies off of objectives.

In theory they should work well together.


I think there is something to be said about the idea of Infiltrators secure the position, Incursors fortifying that position and grav chute Reivers paratrooping to reinforcement it. However, I am not entirely convinced it is a workable tabletop solution as a that is a lot resources to make work with a couple of failure points.

At the same time, [In Sam Jackson's voice from Jackie Brown] "When you absolutely, positively got to hold a position from every heretic, xeno and mutant on the planet, accept no substitutes."


Reivers are not about taking or holding positions. They are high mobility hit and run disruption. They don’t go after straight fights or hold ground (unless forced). Hit where unexpected, fade before force can be brought to bear, repeat. Disrupt and sow confusion and terror.


Then realize they are too slow to repeat because they have the normal 6" move. Reivers were a good concept with a failed execution.

The full Vanguard list isn't bad though. Infiltrators with a medic or with the comms relay to bubble buff from a Phobos Cap isn't bad. Reivers have most of what they need, but really should be jump pack troops if you take both Grapnels and Chutes for 3pts instead of 2 each in the fluff-theory they just the grapnel to propel them forwards and up, to float back down the other X inches on chutes. Suppressors by themselves aren't good but they fit OK in Gravis only, with some Las Fusil Eliminators. Very little in the Full Phobos Theme Army will be the best choice, but none of them are so bad as to be called a bad choice

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Master with Gauntlets of Macragge





Upstate, New York

I was talking mostly about the lore side. On the table top Reivers primary role is to eat up more points then they are worth, suck, and die.

I wish they were better, and hopefully the new book will be kind to them.


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Nevelon's Workbench: Ultramarines, Saim-Hann and other assorted oddities

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Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





I heard a (completely unsubstantiated) rumor that they'll have a debuff that removes objective secured. if so I could see reivers being a popular choice alongside a warlord with the aura that gives Obsecured to deny key objectives, but frankly I'll belive that when I see it.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Thunderhawk Pilot Dropping From Orbit






Across the Rubicon

BrianDavion wrote:
I heard a (completely unsubstantiated) rumor that they'll have a debuff that removes objective secured. if so I could see reivers being a popular choice alongside a warlord with the aura that gives Obsecured to deny key objectives, but frankly I'll belive that when I see it.


If true, that greatly improves Reivers. The biggest issue I have with them is the fact that they don't have Obsec and can't quite wipe out enemy units that do on objectives. I would imagine it being a stratagem, if it does exist, and not a particularly cheap one at that.

   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran





I'd still prefer to be able to get Grap+Chute for 3pts per, and they now have Jump Packs - Potentially with a move to FA. That's one of the last things Primaris Marines are still missing. Jump Fight troops. Assault Marines aren't very good at it either. Make Reivers and Assaults just better enough at it (if +1A abilities they already have now didn't already do that) and then with all the stuff coming down the pipe Primaris might finally be finished.

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
 
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