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Hey guys,

I'm new to 40k minis hoby.

So I set my eyes on some chapters. The bigest concern is this: BA are red, Gray Knights are gray, and SW are yet another color. Other chapters have specific units too (yet more colors). The question is this. Is it possible to paint all of my models in like BA red and then when I would like to change my list to a SW one, I just add SW specific units (that are red). Or is it better to paint BA red, SW in their color and when i want to play a SW list I use my for example red intercessors and SW specific units (in their color)?
Is it even alowed?

I don't have the core rules book nor any of the SM ones (I figured that the new codex will be released soon too). I'm just figureing out how to approach this.

Thanks in advance!
And sory if the question is stupid or has been brought up before.

Very short answer is yes


Longer answer is you can play a "successor " chapter that is descended from the blood angels, or the space wolves, which uses their rules but has its own colour scheme

Obviously this is something that youd tell your opponent during the prelims to a battle, but its fine so long as they know that these red space marines are in fact space wolves.

There isn't any restriction on how your guy must be painted, but it's generally a good idea to not mix and match chapters too much to avoid confusion. I would go with the first option, SW units painted in red, and as a rule of thumb, you should make it explicitly clear what units are what before a game.

To delve into the lore a little - most of the Chapters you've named are what's known as "First Founding", they were originally much larger Legions and there were 20 total.
Then the Horus Heresy happened - short version - 9 of them stayed loyal to the Imperium, 9 turned to Chaos, and we have no idea what happened to the other 2 because all records of them were expunged (which probably means, they did bad things, but who knows).

The 9 loyal Legions were split into smaller Chapters, to ensure that no one force held too much power. This was called the Second Founding, and created a lot of Successor Chapters in the process. These are Chapters that share the heritage of the original Legion, but are their own distinct force, with their own colour scheme, symbol on the shoulder pads, characters, etc etc.

So let's say you wanted to paint your Marines red - if you really really really want a First Founding Chapter, they're going to be Blood Angels. But what you could also do, is come up with a new logo and then they can be a Successor of whatever First Founding Chapter you want, and you can create your own background for them. You can even make them of unknown origin, if you like (though when it comes down to actually playing, you'd still need to choose traits for them, as though it was known).
In this way, you could invent (let's say) the "Scarlet Marauders", and have them be a Successor of the Dark Angels, who were originally a First Founding Legion and later Chapter.

The most important thing is that you've decided what Chapter's rules you're going to use, officially you're meant to have decided this before even turning up for the game, by having it noted down as part of your army list. In practice, most people are going to be fine if you just inform them at the start of the game.

One last thing, though - the First Founding Chapters all have unique units and so on, that aren't available to other Chapters. These are covered in their supplements. Some of these just have special named characters, but others have entirely unique squads and vehicles - Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Space Wolves are the ones to watch here.
The Grey Knights are VERY different and in fact have their own separate full Codex, not even a supplement - they're best considered a totally different army. Aside from a couple of vehicles, every unit they have is unique to them.

Most of the basic units cross over as you've noticed.

What you're feeling around the edges of is generally referred to as "Counts As".

What people who want to do what you sound like you want is to paint in their own color scheme, and plop down their models and say this is The Shooting Star Crusader Angels and they "count as" XYZ chapter.

You will run into more "resistance" if you paint everything as Blood Angels and try and tell people they're Space Wolves.

GW has made moves that IMPLY they want to put a stop to this. You used to be able to run actual Successor Chapters and use the named Special Characters of their Parent Chapter i.e. you could run an Ultramarines Successor chapter as use the Marneus Calgar model as your own Chapter Master named Carneus Malgar (or whatever you wanted to name him). But now technically you can't do that.

I always let my opponents play as "counts as" chapters. They might have painted their Marines as Blood Angels, but if they want to tell me before the game that they are playing using the Iron Hands chapter, then I have no issue with that. I know that rules change what is and isn't good.

Guys thank you soo much!

Super Ready thank you for a more in depth answer, I think I understand it better now. The thing is that I didn't get this Successor Chapters.

So to sum it up. I make my own chapter, with all kind of unique (SM) units (if ever I come up with the money to buy it all ahha) and then when I decide to use let's say Blood Angels, I write my list down and then use the units from my pool of all Space Marines that are compatible with the BA list.
And is it okay to paint the Sanguinary Guard gold-red and Death Company black-red even if my successor chapter is lets say green?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yep, you got the idea!

Thanks a lot )

Breton wrote:
Most of the basic units cross over as you've noticed.

What you're feeling around the edges of is generally referred to as "Counts As".

What people who want to do what you sound like you want is to paint in their own color scheme, and plop down their models and say this is The Shooting Star Crusader Angels and they "count as" XYZ chapter.

You will run into more "resistance" if you paint everything as Blood Angels and try and tell people they're Space Wolves.

GW has made moves that IMPLY they want to put a stop to this. You used to be able to run actual Successor Chapters and use the named Special Characters of their Parent Chapter i.e. you could run an Ultramarines Successor chapter as use the Marneus Calgar model as your own Chapter Master named Carneus Malgar (or whatever you wanted to name him). But now technically you can't do that.

Exactly. So depending on which original chapter you want to base your army in you could say it was a different successor chapter

E.g.
Space wolves? Your red guys could be “Blood Wolves” to reflect your red armour
Imperial Fist? You’re guys could be The Bloody Fist?
White Scars? Your guys could be the “Red Scars”

Ultimately the colour of your marines doesn’t really matter. As longer as the army is a valid one based off a legitimate codex and it is clear what each unit is!

I’m pretty sure a while back Jervos Johnson wrote an article in white dwarf about his space parole army that was painted black/dark metallic grey and that he had used them as Blod Angesl, Space Wolves, Imperial Fists....all sorts of different chapters in its time.

Nice!

Thank you so much guys, now i just need to get myself some models and start playing!!

VoNo wrote:
Nice!

Thank you so much guys, now i just need to get myself some models and start playing!!

the starter sets are a decent eneugh place to start. the commander edition'll give you some decent starting minis, a copy of the rule book AND some terrain

BrianDavion wrote:

VoNo wrote:
Nice!

Thank you so much guys, now i just need to get myself some models and start playing!!

the starter sets are a decent eneugh place to start. the commander edition'll give you some decent starting minis, a copy of the rule book AND some terrain

Definitely. From the sounds of things he's already got some models, but the starter sets are pretty good. I wish I could cancel one of my Indomitus and swap to a Starter Set.

Breton wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

VoNo wrote:
Nice!

Thank you so much guys, now i just need to get myself some models and start playing!!

the starter sets are a decent eneugh place to start. the commander edition'll give you some decent starting minis, a copy of the rule book AND some terrain

Definitely. From the sounds of things he's already got some models, but the starter sets are pretty good. I wish I could cancel one of my Indomitus and swap to a Starter Set.

No I don't have any models yet. The above thing was the issue for starting my army.
So in your opinion, better worht are the starter sets?
Would you say that Indomitus box is not worth it if you only want the SM side?
I was planing to go for it because I could then play at home (2 diferent armies), but then when I looked at the units more closely, I saw that it is a melee army and I would like to have 2-3 SM armies so that I can chose and not be locked at the start with only one melee orientated (lets say Blood Angels).

VoNo wrote:

Breton wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

VoNo wrote:
Nice!

Thank you so much guys, now i just need to get myself some models and start playing!!

the starter sets are a decent eneugh place to start. the commander edition'll give you some decent starting minis, a copy of the rule book AND some terrain

Definitely. From the sounds of things he's already got some models, but the starter sets are pretty good. I wish I could cancel one of my Indomitus and swap to a Starter Set.

No I don't have any models yet. The above thing was the issue for starting my army.
So in your opinion, better worht are the starter sets?
Would you say that Indomitus box is not worth it if you only want the SM side?
I was planing to go for it because I could then play at home (2 diferent armies), but then when I looked at the units more closely, I saw that it is a melee army and I would like to have 2-3 SM armies so that I can chose and not be locked at the start with only one melee orientated (lets say Blood Angels).

The Indomitus Box is a starter set if you ask most of us. It's got two armies, and a rule book. You get more models and no terrain that way, but you still get the BRB. I actually bought three of the Indomitus Sets, had I known what would be in the "Starter Sets" (and what was going to happen to Assault Intercessors, Blade Guard Veterans and Erandicators - i.e. 3/6 units, upgrade options, etc) I would have bought two Indomitus and one "starter set".

If you do only want one side of a box, you've got options - find someone else in your area who wants the other half and go halves. People make a business out of selling halves and/or units on Ebay thus parting out these boxed sets. Be forewarned if you're doing one of the big four chapters this is likely to mean no transfers doing it that way unless you buy the full half. Even then check and make sure.

Also as time goes by GW has two kinds of models Easy To Build and Multi-Part or Full Kit are how they're usually referred to. Easy To Build usually don't have full options and often don't have the same visual quality. So watch for that in boxed sets.

Marines have historically been great at being able to focus into shooting or melee almost regardless of which Chapter you choose. So I don't think you need necessarily worry about that. What matters far more is what units you take - so you could quite happily start with the Indomitus or Command boxes, then get shooty units later on to expand it.
Just because Blood Angels are known as the melee Chapter, doesn't mean they're bad at shooting - far from it - they're just not quite as good at it as, say, Imperial Fists - but you'd be hard pressed to tell that much of a difference if both armies had exactly the same units.

...given the way that editions and Codexes can change things and tip balances, you'll see things grow and dip in power, so I'm going to echo a suggestion that's been made on these boards many many times over. Just go with what you think is cool and/or looks cool. You'll get a lot more enjoyment out of the hobby that way, than if you go for broke with a faction on the basis of their in-game power, only to have that broken later down the line.

The Indomitus Box is a starter set if you ask most of us. It's got two armies, and a rule book. You get more models and no terrain that way, but you still get the BRB. I actually bought three of the Indomitus Sets, had I known what would be in the "Starter Sets" (and what was going to happen to Assault Intercessors, Blade Guard Veterans and Erandicators - i.e. 3/6 units, upgrade options, etc) I would have bought two Indomitus and one "starter set".

When you say "starter set" do mean a "Start collecting box" or the Command/ Elite Edition.
Do you mind if I ask what chapter are you playing as?

Also as time goes by GW has two kinds of models Easy To Build and Multi-Part or Full Kit are how they're usually referred to. Easy To Build usually don't have full options and often don't have the same visual quality. So watch for that in boxed sets.

Nice of you to mention that, thanks!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Super Ready wrote:
Marines have historically been great at being able to focus into shooting or melee almost regardless of which Chapter you choose. So I don't think you need necessarily worry about that. What matters far more is what units you take - so you could quite happily start with the Indomitus or Command boxes, then get shooty units later on to expand it.
Just because Blood Angels are known as the melee Chapter, doesn't mean they're bad at shooting - far from it - they're just not quite as good at it as, say, Imperial Fists - but you'd be hard pressed to tell that much of a difference if both armies had exactly the same units.

...given the way that editions and Codexes can change things and tip balances, you'll see things grow and dip in power, so I'm going to echo a suggestion that's been made on these boards many many times over. Just go with what you think is cool and/or looks cool. You'll get a lot more enjoyment out of the hobby that way, than if you go for broke with a faction on the basis of their in-game power, only to have that broken later down the line.

Thank you very much!
It was never my intention to go for the faction "that is the most powerfull", I just overanalyze things and I dont want to rush in blind haha

Over the time that I was looking from where to star, there were a number of changes, so I know what you mean

VoNo wrote:

The Indomitus Box is a starter set if you ask most of us. It's got two armies, and a rule book. You get more models and no terrain that way, but you still get the BRB. I actually bought three of the Indomitus Sets, had I known what would be in the "Starter Sets" (and what was going to happen to Assault Intercessors, Blade Guard Veterans and Erandicators - i.e. 3/6 units, upgrade options, etc) I would have bought two Indomitus and one "starter set".

When you say "starter set" do mean a "Start collecting box" or the Command/ Elite Edition.
Do you mind if I ask what chapter are you playing as?

When most of us say "starter set" we're talking about things like the Indomitus, Command Edition, Wake the Dead, Shadowpear, etc. A set that has two different armies from two different factions and usually has a rulebook. A boxed set that has everything you need to play at least a very basic game. The Start Collecting Boxes only have the one Army. And to be fair might even be better than a second starter set. The Start Collecting boxes are frequently one half of a previous starter set - Or something very very similar. The Start Collecting Chaos box for example looks an awful lot like the Chaos half of the Shadowspear box. The Start Collecting Vanguard Space Marines looks like the Marine half. Start Collecting Craftworlds is pretty close, but at a glance not exactly the Wake the Dead Eldar half. Start Collecting Primaris Space Wolves is very similar to Tooth and Claw.

Also as time goes by GW has two kinds of models Easy To Build and Multi-Part or Full Kit are how they're usually referred to. Easy To Build usually don't have full options and often don't have the same visual quality. So watch for that in boxed sets.

Nice of you to mention that, thanks!!

I should add that doesn't mean all ETB kits are bad. They're usually a little cheaper, and if they have what you want you should look to see how the sculpt detail comes out, and if that matters to you and how much.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Super Ready wrote:
Marines have historically been great at being able to focus into shooting or melee almost regardless of which Chapter you choose. So I don't think you need necessarily worry about that. What matters far more is what units you take - so you could quite happily start with the Indomitus or Command boxes, then get shooty units later on to expand it.
Just because Blood Angels are known as the melee Chapter, doesn't mean they're bad at shooting - far from it - they're just not quite as good at it as, say, Imperial Fists - but you'd be hard pressed to tell that much of a difference if both armies had exactly the same units.

...given the way that editions and Codexes can change things and tip balances, you'll see things grow and dip in power, so I'm going to echo a suggestion that's been made on these boards many many times over. Just go with what you think is cool and/or looks cool. You'll get a lot more enjoyment out of the hobby that way, than if you go for broke with a faction on the basis of their in-game power, only to have that broken later down the line.

Thank you very much!
It was never my intention to go for the faction "that is the most powerfull", I just overanalyze things and I dont want to rush in blind haha

Over the time that I was looking from where to star, there were a number of changes, so I know what you mean

Yeah most of the time chapter selection isn't power so much as flavor. People say Blood Angel/Space Wolves are the fighting not shooting chapters because much of their special rules run that direction rather than shooting like the Imperial Fists, but most of the units are shared, and most of the army is going to be similar. Whether you take BA, SW, or your own chapter you still have to field 3ish troop choices, so you're probably taking some tactical squads, some intercessor squads, etc. With Indomitus you get some Assault Intercessors as a Troop choice, so in theory you could go full Close Combat Troops, Elites etc. But few people do that. Generally speaking, when we suggest you pick a chapter that's going to affect only about half your army. About half a space Marine army is going to be roughly the same for any given person. Tacticals, Devs, Intercessors, Eradicators, Aggressors, Eliminators, Inceptors, there are usually a couple different units that cover a "job to do" and people have a preference for that job. The other half will change because that's going to be your chapter flavor - i.e. Special units only that chapter has access to, or units that really match up well with that chapter's flavor. Sanguinary Guard, Thunderwolf Cavalry, Ravenwing and chapter specific units that would fall into this category. White Scars Bikers, Imperial Fist Terminators, Iron Hands Dreadnoughts, Ravenguard Vanguard Vets - are examples of normal units that synergize with the chapter flavor (Or did, they may not still I haven't kept up on all the chapter traits etc)

So that Indomitus Boxed set can and will be used by all the Chapters out there to some greater or lesser extent. Just about all the models/units are good. They will synergize a little better with Wolves and Blood Angels but they won't be at all out of place in Ultramarines, Dark Angels, or Imperial Fists.

When we suggest you pick a chapter, we're looking for what kind of flavor you want. Not all Chapter Specific Units are created equal. The Tyranid Warriors are kinda Meh, while Sanguinary Guard are pretty good. So if you want to go UM, we'll make one set of recommendations, if you want BA, we'd make antoher, if you want SW we'd make yet another - For example BA are known for fighting, but they're also known for Melta, so not just fighitng. Meanwhile DA are known for Plasma, and SW have a Chapter specific special weapon type using Frost. Salamanders are known for their flamers.

When most of us say "starter set" we're talking about things like the Indomitus, Command Edition, Wake the Dead, Shadowpear, etc. A set that has two different armies from two different factions and usually has a rulebook. A boxed set that has everything you need to play at least a very basic game. The Start Collecting Boxes only have the one Army. And to be fair might even be better than a second starter set. The Start Collecting boxes are frequently one half of a previous starter set - Or something very very similar. The Start Collecting Chaos box for example looks an awful lot like the Chaos half of the Shadowspear box. The Start Collecting Vanguard Space Marines looks like the Marine half. Start Collecting Craftworlds is pretty close, but at a glance not exactly the Wake the Dead Eldar half. Start Collecting Primaris Space Wolves is very similar to Tooth and Claw.

Okay thanks for that clarification!!

I should add that doesn't mean all ETB kits are bad. They're usually a little cheaper, and if they have what you want you should look to see how the sculpt detail comes out, and if that matters to you and how much.

Yeah most of the time chapter selection isn't power so much as flavor. People say Blood Angel/Space Wolves are the fighting not shooting chapters because much of their special rules run that direction rather than shooting like the Imperial Fists, but most of the units are shared, and most of the army is going to be similar. Whether you take BA, SW, or your own chapter you still have to field 3ish troop choices, so you're probably taking some tactical squads, some intercessor squads, etc. With Indomitus you get some Assault Intercessors as a Troop choice, so in theory you could go full Close Combat Troops, Elites etc. But few people do that. Generally speaking, when we suggest you pick a chapter that's going to affect only about half your army. About half a space Marine army is going to be roughly the same for any given person. Tacticals, Devs, Intercessors, Eradicators, Aggressors, Eliminators, Inceptors, there are usually a couple different units that cover a "job to do" and people have a preference for that job. The other half will change because that's going to be your chapter flavor - i.e. Special units only that chapter has access to, or units that really match up well with that chapter's flavor. Sanguinary Guard, Thunderwolf Cavalry, Ravenwing and chapter specific units that would fall into this category. White Scars Bikers, Imperial Fist Terminators, Iron Hands Dreadnoughts, Ravenguard Vanguard Vets - are examples of normal units that synergize with the chapter flavor (Or did, they may not still I haven't kept up on all the chapter traits etc)

So that Indomitus Boxed set can and will be used by all the Chapters out there to some greater or lesser extent. Just about all the models/units are good. They will synergize a little better with Wolves and Blood Angels but they won't be at all out of place in Ultramarines, Dark Angels, or Imperial Fists.

When we suggest you pick a chapter, we're looking for what kind of flavor you want. Not all Chapter Specific Units are created equal. The Tyranid Warriors are kinda Meh, while Sanguinary Guard are pretty good. So if you want to go UM, we'll make one set of recommendations, if you want BA, we'd make antoher, if you want SW we'd make yet another - For example BA are known for fighting, but they're also known for Melta, so not just fighitng. Meanwhile DA are known for Plasma, and SW have a Chapter specific special weapon type using Frost. Salamanders are known for their flamers.

Okay, I have a lot to process now. You helped me a lot, and thank you for that!!