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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/14 23:46:15
Subject: Sw terminator with shield?
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Liche Priest Hierophant
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So the terminators list the wargear. But it does not list anybpoint for it. Does that mean it is free?
Also, while a 1 is always a fail, does this mean terminators are 1+ 4++? Suck it AP1?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/15 00:55:11
Subject: Sw terminator with shield?
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Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest
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Niiai wrote:So the terminators list the wargear. But it does not list anybpoint for it. Does that mean it is free?
Looks that way. That's also the case for standard, non- SW Assault Terminators - though in that case, you're forced into paying the cost for the Thunder Hammer.
For Wolf Guard in particular, taking the shield means giving up having both a ranged and melee weapon, so the fact that it's "free" does make some sense.
Also, while a 1 is always a fail, does this mean terminators are 1+ 4++? Suck it AP1?
Pretty much. Remember that the modifiers for both the storm shield and AP affect the dice roll, not the Sv characteristic.
So for instance, if an AP-1 attack hits and wounds, you roll a save and get a 2. The AP modifier would normally make this a 1, but the storm shield brings it back up to 2. Comparing that to the Terminator armour save (which hasn't changed), the save is successful.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/15 00:55:29
"Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/15 01:01:42
Subject: Sw terminator with shield?
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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Niiai wrote:So the terminators list the wargear. But it does not list anybpoint for it. Does that mean it is free?
Also, while a 1 is always a fail, does this mean terminators are 1+ 4++? Suck it AP1?
anybpoint? not sure what you mean.
For #2, Stormshields do not add to the armor save of the model, they add to the roll. So terminators are not 1+, they are 2+ with a +1 to the armor save roll.
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"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/15 03:07:07
Subject: Sw terminator with shield?
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Norn Queen
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Niiai wrote:So the terminators list the wargear. But it does not list anybpoint for it. Does that mean it is free? Also, while a 1 is always a fail, does this mean terminators are 1+ 4++? Suck it AP1?
Yes, since it has no points cost listed, it doesn't cost any points to have, like all other wargear without a points cost. And no, a Terminator with Storm Shield is not a 1+ save. There is a MASSIVE difference between a 1+ save on a D6 and a 2+ save on a D6+1, which for the sake of everyone's sanity I won't go into and just leave it as "they aren't the same". You're correct in your assertion (I think that is what you are asserting) that a Terminator with Storm Shield has the same probability of passing a save vs AP0 and AP-1 due to the +1 save modifier (a 5/6 chance as unmodified 1's always fail), but that does not make it a 1+ save.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/15 03:07:31
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/16 22:35:45
Subject: Sw terminator with shield?
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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Storm Shields *do* add 1 to the save characteristic, not the roll.
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Stormonu wrote:For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/16 22:53:39
Subject: Sw terminator with shield?
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Liche Priest Hierophant
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Look, form the game perspective there is no functional differense between a +1 save and a 2+ with a +1 on the dice. Not as long as natural 1 is always a fail.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/16 22:59:40
Subject: Sw terminator with shield?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Niiai wrote:Look, form the game perspective there is no functional differense between a +1 save and a 2+ with a +1 on the dice. Not as long as natural 1 is always a fail.
This is demonstrably false, and why the 9th shields had to be erattad.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/16 23:08:32
Subject: Sw terminator with shield?
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Lieutenant General
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From the 'Ancient in Terminator Armour' datasheet found on page 148 of Codex Space Marines as an example:
Storm Shield: The bearer has a 4+ invulnerable save. In addition, add 1 to armour saving throws made for the bearer.
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'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/16 23:16:27
Subject: Sw terminator with shield?
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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Niiai wrote:Look, form the game perspective there is no functional differense between a +1 save and a 2+ with a +1 on the dice. Not as long as natural 1 is always a fail.
That is not true anymore, since dice can not be modified to less than a 1.
Citation needed.
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"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/17 00:50:33
Subject: Sw terminator with shield?
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Confessor Of Sins
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Niiai wrote:Look, form the game perspective there is no functional differense between a +1 save and a 2+ with a +1 on the dice. Not as long as natural 1 is always a fail.
For your edification:
Important Notes: No die roll can be modified below 1. A Natural Die roll of 1 on a Save fails.
So if you you are hit by an AP -3 weapon, the differences is:
Case A (Save 1+): A natural die roll of 3 is reduced by -3 AP to 1. You save as your save is 1+ and only a natural 1 automatically fails.
Case B (Save 2+ with +1 Modifier): A natural die roll of 3 has a result of 1 (3-3+1). Your Save is 1+, so you fail.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/17 01:21:15
Subject: Sw terminator with shield?
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Norn Queen
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No, they don't. This was changed quite a while back. For example, under the Bladeguard Veteran Squad entry:
Codex: Space Marines, Page 150 wrote:Storm Shield: The bearer has a 4+ invulnerable save. In addition, add 1 to armour saving throws made for the bearer.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/17 08:24:50
Subject: Sw terminator with shield?
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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Ghaz wrote:
From the 'Ancient in Terminator Armour' datasheet found on page 148 of Codex Space Marines as an example:
Storm Shield: The bearer has a 4+ invulnerable save. In addition, add 1 to armour saving throws made for the bearer.
Ah good to know. Error was made, no “cItAtIoN nEeDeD!” pile on required. Legitimately thought I’d read that in my Codex earlier, glad to be wrong.
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Stormonu wrote:For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/17 09:20:52
Subject: Sw terminator with shield?
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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JohnnyHell wrote: Ghaz wrote:
From the 'Ancient in Terminator Armour' datasheet found on page 148 of Codex Space Marines as an example:
Storm Shield: The bearer has a 4+ invulnerable save. In addition, add 1 to armour saving throws made for the bearer.
Ah good to know. Error was made, no “cItAtIoN nEeDeD!” pile on required. Legitimately thought I’d read that in my Codex earlier, glad to be wrong.
No one said “cItAtIoN nEeDeD!” and it was not a pile on. It was not a mocking tone at all. It was a call for a citation.
There is no need to be rude.
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"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/17 14:21:36
Subject: Sw terminator with shield?
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Lieutenant General
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JohnnyHell wrote: Ghaz wrote:
From the 'Ancient in Terminator Armour' datasheet found on page 148 of Codex Space Marines as an example:
Storm Shield: The bearer has a 4+ invulnerable save. In addition, add 1 to armour saving throws made for the bearer.
Ah good to know. Error was made, no “cItAtIoN nEeDeD!” pile on required. Legitimately thought I’d read that in my Codex earlier, glad to be wrong.
Note that The Edge of Silence in the Indomitus box did have different wording which was corrected via The Edge of Silence - Indomitus FAQ V1.0
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'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/17 19:23:50
Subject: Sw terminator with shield?
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Liche Priest Hierophant
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Aha. I did not know modefiers could not push a die roll below 1. (Is the same true for max? Some have a save of 7.)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/17 19:37:28
Subject: Sw terminator with shield?
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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Niiai wrote:Aha. I did not know modefiers could not push a die roll below 1. (Is the same true for max? Some have a save of 7.)
Nope. Stack enough bonuses to any roll but hit or wound rolls (since those are capped at +/-1) and you can roll as high as you please.
The highest I can think of would be Bullgryns with Slabshields, in Light Cover, under the effects of Psychic Barrier and Take Cover.
1d6+5, for a max of 11 on an armor save.
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Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! |
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