Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Been inspired by chats with DukeofStuff (cheers mate) to include DKoK Grenadiers as the non deep striking part of a Scion list (to represent Scions since they have HSLGs 4+ and bs3+). Dug out my 8th Ed index for the rules and found a vid with the 9th points. But haven't found a conversation online comparing the two so thought it'd be a good idea to start one.

DKoK Grenadier/Engineer advantages:
-2pts/1pt cheaper
-Very strong morale doctrine
-Can be taken in a brigade since they have Fast and Heavy slots available and in a battalion or Patrol can have access to units like Tank Commanders that doctrine Scions don't have access to in the same detachment.
-Watch officer (tempestor equivalent) can take a HSLG.
-Have access to a 6+++.
-Can have up to 13 Infantry orders with rule of 3 (not counting Laurels), with Venner, 3 Marshals, 3 Officers and Master of command, compared to max 8 from Scions (and 8 requires both a relic and a WL trait)
-Show No Mercy almost makes up for FRFSRF as shooting same between 9-18" and helpful in assault if still alive after being charged.
-Engineer Acid Bombs and Carcass shot exceptional against monsters and 2W units.

Scion advantages:
-Deepstrike
-4 specials in a squad of 10
-Commands can take a special each for Scions unlike DKoK commands.
-Access to FRFSRF, Take Aim, and Elimination Protocals (the biggest loss for DKoK Grenadiers imo who will only be able to get FRFSRF through Yarrick with Master of Command or a seperate detachments commissar with Master of Command and absolutely no access to EP).
-Access to some very good Doctrines, relics, strategems and WL traits
-Scions have access of rerolls of 1 to hit through orders, Lambden Lions WL trait and Yarrick compared to Grenadiers only having access through Yarrick. Quite a big deal on units that like to take plasma, or in the case of Engineers Carcass shots.

Whilst both units are very similar basic, there are also huge differences and advantages that one holds over the other and vice versa.

Have I missed anything out? Thoughts between the difference of the 3 units?

Note that DKOK units (infantry and Cavalry) can get +1A from the regimental standard in their command squad, as well as the +1 from the Ministorum Priest (who buffs Astra militarum, so also DKOK). They also have WS3+, so each infantry squad can have 30 attacks, hitting 20. That's pretty massive for guardsmen, especially with their order to also shoot in CC. It won't kill Marines, but can really hurt stuff like guardsmen, grots or gaunts.

Good catch. Definitely worth considering.

I'm thinking of building towards a 67 man blob of 60 Grenadiers with 12 plasma and Yarrick, 2 Marshalls, Quarter Master and his 2 Servitors and an Astropath to march up the centre of the board to try and control objectives. The regimental standard and a priest would work well in that. It'd be difficult for the opponent to engage more than 1/3rd in assault if ranked properly and due to the moral doctrine, Yarricks leadership, the 6+++, 4+, and 1 ressurection per turn, the opponent will have to invest a decent amount of firepower to remove lots of 7pt models. A couple of units of Engineers behind that could advance and carcass shot or acid bomb dangerous threats with Yarricks rerolls of 1 or Grenadier strategum could be good back up for it too. The firepower of the blob and the fact that it will have serious control over objectives makes it something that absolutely can't be ignored. Units could always detatch as well to help with different objectives. Altogether it would take up just less than half a 2k list - so Scions to make up the rest.

I would recommend giving the Quartermaster 4 Servitors. He's a 50 point model so those two additional wounds might come in handy.
A second quartermaster / priest for redundancy might also be a good idea.

Last but not least: DKOK have access to heavy weapons squads that the Scions lack and are pretty cheap in that. Other than normal HWS they also can take heavy flamers. I'm not sure if this is efficient, but 17 points/heavy flamer does sound pretty cool.