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Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran





From the Victrix Guard in the Ultramarines FAQ, as made public by GW - Similar is around for the remnants of the Command Squad, Honor Guard etc.

"While a friendly Ultramarines Character unit that has a
Wounds characteristic of 9 or less is within 3" of this unit, enemy
models cannot target that Character unit with ranged attacks.’"

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
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Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest





Stevenage, UK

Honestly? Right now it's a "nice to have", but not by itself a reason to take them. The trouble with the rule is that it's functionally a replica of the existing "Look Out Sir", and so only works against units that specifically state they ignore "Look Out Sir" itself. Only examples of that I've seen are the new Marine Codex sniper rifles.
Older rules use something along the lines of "can ignore targeting restrictions" or "may target characters even if they are not the closest unit". In those cases, you've got a conflict that's always going to go in the attacker's favour, per Rare Rules (page 362).

As time goes on I suspect we'll see more sniper rules change to "ignore Look Out Sir" instead, whether it's by FAQ or Codex, and we'll have to see how popular sniper units become as a result. In other words, the bodyguards' usefulness is going to change with the meta.

"Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch  
   
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Many FAQs already have changed the rules for targeting for sniper units.
   
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 Super Ready wrote:
Honestly? Right now it's a "nice to have", but not by itself a reason to take them. The trouble with the rule is that it's functionally a replica of the existing "Look Out Sir", and so only works against units that specifically state they ignore "Look Out Sir" itself. Only examples of that I've seen are the new Marine Codex sniper rifles.
Older rules use something along the lines of "can ignore targeting restrictions" or "may target characters even if they are not the closest unit". In those cases, you've got a conflict that's always going to go in the attacker's favour, per Rare Rules (page 362).

As time goes on I suspect we'll see more sniper rules change to "ignore Look Out Sir" instead, whether it's by FAQ or Codex, and we'll have to see how popular sniper units become as a result. In other words, the bodyguards' usefulness is going to change with the meta.


I think they already did... Codex Craftworld FAQ:
*Page 94 and 110 – Rangers and Ranged Weapons list, ranger
long rifle, Abilities
Change the first sentence to read:
‘Each time you select a target for this weapon, you can ignore the
Look Out, Sir rule.’

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
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I haven't looked at thr interaction yet, but does this mean snipers can't target characters if they have a bodyguard? If so, might make my RG list change a little.
   
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 bullyboy wrote:
I haven't looked at thr interaction yet, but does this mean snipers can't target characters if they have a bodyguard? If so, might make my RG list change a little.


Yup, that's what it means, as near as I can tell. You can ignore Look Out Sir, you can't ignore "Honour Guard of Macragge" and various other named similar abilities. When they get updated to this same wording. Tau Shield Drones/Savior Protocols didn't change it looks like but they're more than just characters. And you might want to read that FAQ, it's got some interesting implications on mortal wounds that don't go to the wound phase but the attack sequence ends.

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Upstate, New York

 Super Ready wrote:
Honestly? Right now it's a "nice to have", but not by itself a reason to take them. The trouble with the rule is that it's functionally a replica of the existing "Look Out Sir", and so only works against units that specifically state they ignore "Look Out Sir" itself. Only examples of that I've seen are the new Marine Codex sniper rifles.
Older rules use something along the lines of "can ignore targeting restrictions" or "may target characters even if they are not the closest unit". In those cases, you've got a conflict that's always going to go in the attacker's favour, per Rare Rules (page 362).

As time goes on I suspect we'll see more sniper rules change to "ignore Look Out Sir" instead, whether it's by FAQ or Codex, and we'll have to see how popular sniper units become as a result. In other words, the bodyguards' usefulness is going to change with the meta.


One small perk it has over just relying on Look Out Sir! is that there is not the unit size requirement, closest model limit, etc. You could have a volcano cannon 1.5” away from the captain’s face, nothing between you and him. But as long as that last HG a couple inches behind him still draws breath, the good captain gets to remain in a non-gaseous state.

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And the Victrix still have a 3++. And are Slot Free with Marneus, not that an Elite slot is that contested for with 6. I'm wondering if it's worth buying another Marneus for the extra Victrix.

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in ca
Revving Ravenwing Biker



Canada

I like the Bodyguard rule. As others have said, you don't have to worry about the minimum squad size to provide Look Out Sir and you shut down Snipers. Its also fairly simple rules wise.

All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
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Upstate, New York

Breton wrote:
And the Victrix still have a 3++. And are Slot Free with Marneus, not that an Elite slot is that contested for with 6. I'm wondering if it's worth buying another Marneus for the extra Victrix.


I was wondering how hard it would be to turn some bladeguard vets into more Victrix guard. Fundamentally they are both sword and board primaris vets. Heavy dollop of the UM upgrade spure and gold trim as opposed to the white of the 1st company? Will be interesting to see what bits are available in the full Bladeguard box.



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I think it needs a full rework. They should give a auto LoS! to w/e they are body guarding and you have to declare the unit it is blocking for. They don't have to stay near their character but it only works if within 3" they get LoS! Regardless of "closest" of the shooting model. Same for Drones, Tyrant Guard, and others.

Example, you have 2 Archons and Sslyths court models, each model has to declare to one of the Archons and can only block for that one. So your WL Archon gets 2 and the other gets 1.

This gives them a super niche that is actually useful, 10w+ heroes now has a LoS in a round about way, it makes 1 and 2 man units viable to block as well. Finally i like the mechanic better, why would the Character take the hit then move the wound to the body guard? I HATE how it works, make the unit forced to be shot at b.c they are literally in the way of the character (think "Get down Mr President")

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/10/18 18:12:15


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 Nevelon wrote:
Breton wrote:
And the Victrix still have a 3++. And are Slot Free with Marneus, not that an Elite slot is that contested for with 6. I'm wondering if it's worth buying another Marneus for the extra Victrix.


I was wondering how hard it would be to turn some bladeguard vets into more Victrix guard. Fundamentally they are both sword and board primaris vets. Heavy dollop of the UM upgrade spure and gold trim as opposed to the white of the 1st company? Will be interesting to see what bits are available in the full Bladeguard box.


I'm wondering if Honor Guard are dead. The Axe of Ultramar is just a power axe now. The bolter is just a bolter. Both units are capped at 2. . They're cheaper but 2+/3++ sticks around a lot longer than 2+/Oops. I'm also wondering if they get a (Potentially Heavy) Bolt Pistol in the next codex supplement to bring them in line with the BGV.


Oh Damn. Just looked up Company Vets. You can get up to 5, One unit is slot free if you have a CAPTAIN. You can kind of sort of do either foot slogging Vanguard, or sort of Sternguard with them AND they have the Bodyguard rule. For 1 point more per model than Victrix you can give them TH/SS, and you can take up to 5.

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Annandale, VA

 Super Ready wrote:
The trouble with the rule is that it's functionally a replica of the existing "Look Out Sir", and so only works against units that specifically state they ignore "Look Out Sir" itself.


It is not functionally equivalent to Look Out Sir because it still works even if you have fewer than 3 models in the unit or the character is closer to the enemy than the bodyguard is.

When the new 9th Ed rules were leaked there was some discussion in my group as to how units like Victrix would be handled, since you only get 2 of them to start with and thus not enough to provide Look Out Sir protection.

This way they can provide screening without having to worry about positioning or character count. As long as they're anywhere within 3", the character can't be targeted. And as you said, they still provide protection against sniper units that ignore Look Out Sir.

I would love to see this implementation carried over to other bodyguard units. It makes their defensive profiles relevant, which wasn't the case with the 'take a mortal wound' mechanic.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/10/18 15:16:36


 
   
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 bullyboy wrote:
Many FAQs already have changed the rules for targeting for sniper units.


Indeed. Both rhe admech aquebus and the sisters of silence have had the wording changed to "ignores look out sir", so it would work against them

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 catbarf wrote:


I would love to see this implementation carried over to other bodyguard units. It makes their defensive profiles relevant, which wasn't the case with the 'take a mortal wound' mechanic.


It somewhat has been so far, all the Marine bodyguards got the same mechanic. You'd have to ask someone with the Necron codex (assuming they have a bodyguard unit) what theirs does. I don't think Shield Drones get it, but instead stay the way they were because that's not just characters, but any infantry unit.

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in gb
Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest





Stevenage, UK

Very good points about the unit size and FAQ sniper changes, thanks all. So they're already useful if you're expecting to face snipers... otherwise, I don't really see bodyguard units in general as being worth it unless you want to use the character as a beatstick and not as a buff beacon. If they're there for buffs, they're going to be close to other units anyway.
If the bodyguard unit itself is pretty tasty, though, like the Victrix...? That changes things.

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It's a big mess for LOS and allows some dumb 8th-edition style tricks, i.e. you put your character out in the open, hide the bodyguard unit behind obscuring terrain but within 3", and your character becomes unshootable and you can't shoot the bodyguard unit either (except with indirect) because it's out of LOS.

I can see what they were going for, but mechanically it causes more problems than it solves. At the very least they need to errata it to only work if the bodyguard unit is an eligible target for the ranged attack trying to target the character. It's dumb and bad for the game that a bodyguard unit hunkered down behind a massive wall 20 feet to the right can wave their hands and make it impossible for you to shoot the guy standing out in the open 20 feet away on the objective.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/10/18 16:02:55


 
   
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 Super Ready wrote:
Very good points about the unit size and FAQ sniper changes, thanks all. So they're already useful if you're expecting to face snipers... otherwise, I don't really see bodyguard units in general as being worth it unless you want to use the character as a beatstick and not as a buff beacon. If they're there for buffs, they're going to be close to other units anyway.
If the bodyguard unit itself is pretty tasty, though, like the Victrix...? That changes things.


The Victrix are kind of tasty. But like I said, Company Veterans - wowsers. Sure on a per model basis in close combat, Victrix will rival an actual barebones HQ character like a chaplain or captain. But if you're doing it, it's worth doing right. Grab the 5 company vets, slap a TH and SS on them. You're going to be paying about 150% (added to be clear - 150% more i.e. 2.5x Victrix costs)of the Victrix but you're getting 5 models creating more lost wounds, 4 more wounds beyond that, and 2 more attacks, with Thunderhammers.

If you really want to have fun, you could give three of them Melta/Plasma/etc guns and a storm shield, and give one a Heavy Weapon and Storm Shield. That guy? Yeah that's Veteran Brother Youmadbro. He found an old Breacher Shield in the reliquary and figured out how to poke a Grav Cannon through the slot. That would be a bear to convert, but it would be fun to see the reactions.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/18 15:58:02


My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
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yukishiro1 wrote:
It's a big mess for LOS and allows some dumb 8th-edition style tricks, i.e. you put your character out in the open, hide the bodyguard unit behind obscuring terrain but within 3", and your character becomes unshootable and you can't shoot the bodyguard unit either (except with indirect) because it's out of LOS.

I can see what they were going for, but mechanically it causes more problems than it solves. At the very least they need to errata it to only work if the bodyguard unit is an eligible target for the ranged attack trying to target the character. It's dumb and bad for the game that a bodyguard unit hunkered down behind a massive wall 20 feet to the right can wave their hands and make it impossible for you to shoot the guy standing out in the open 20 feet away on the objective.


yeah, but then you open up the rhino shooting alley to the character shenanigans. i can make it so that I can only see the character.
   
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Right, which is why it was a bad solution in search of a problem. The old system was clunky but it worked. If you wanted to make it less clunky, you could just pass off hits, instead of wounds or instead of turning them into mortal wounds. Just let bodyguard units take hits for characters within 3" on a 2+. Problem solved. No abusing LOS to make it so you can't shoot a character standing in the open.
   
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Cardiff

Just kill the bodyguards with other stuff then snipe the character. Job done.

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
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Breton wrote:
 catbarf wrote:


I would love to see this implementation carried over to other bodyguard units. It makes their defensive profiles relevant, which wasn't the case with the 'take a mortal wound' mechanic.


It somewhat has been so far, all the Marine bodyguards got the same mechanic. You'd have to ask someone with the Necron codex (assuming they have a bodyguard unit) what theirs does. I don't think Shield Drones get it, but instead stay the way they were because that's not just characters, but any infantry unit.


Lychguard also do this for NOBLEs.

 
   
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Breton wrote:
You'd have to ask someone with the Necron codex (assuming they have a bodyguard unit) what theirs does.

They have the claw robots from Indomitus, their rule works the same way IIRC.

I like the 'on 2+, hit is allocated to bodyguard' solution, but will take new bodyguard mechanic over 8th edition nonsense any day.
   
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I wonder how they will change Deathshroud to accommodate for this. If they get the same wound threshold, they can no longer protect Mortarion (which is their first and foremost job fluff-wise), but if they have the same rule without threshold, you suddenly can make Mortarion unshootable by placing the deathshroud behind obscuring terrain.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/18 19:00:47


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 Drachii wrote:
Breton wrote:
 catbarf wrote:


I would love to see this implementation carried over to other bodyguard units. It makes their defensive profiles relevant, which wasn't the case with the 'take a mortal wound' mechanic.


It somewhat has been so far, all the Marine bodyguards got the same mechanic. You'd have to ask someone with the Necron codex (assuming they have a bodyguard unit) what theirs does. I don't think Shield Drones get it, but instead stay the way they were because that's not just characters, but any infantry unit.


Lychguard also do this for NOBLEs.


Same wording? Or different? That's what we were wondering.

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'While a friendly <DYNASTY> INFANTRY NOBLE or DYNASTIC AGENT INFANTRY NOBLE unit is within 3" of this unit, enemy units cannot target that unit with ranged weapons.'

 
   
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 Super Ready wrote:
Honestly? Right now it's a "nice to have", but not by itself a reason to take them. The trouble with the rule is that it's functionally a replica of the existing "Look Out Sir", and so only works against units that specifically state they ignore "Look Out Sir" itself. Only examples of that I've seen are the new Marine Codex sniper rifles.
Older rules use something along the lines of "can ignore targeting restrictions" or "may target characters even if they are not the closest unit". In those cases, you've got a conflict that's always going to go in the attacker's favour, per Rare Rules (page 362).

As time goes on I suspect we'll see more sniper rules change to "ignore Look Out Sir" instead, whether it's by FAQ or Codex, and we'll have to see how popular sniper units become as a result. In other words, the bodyguards' usefulness is going to change with the meta.


It also affects when character would be closest target at which point LOS would be pointless anyway. Helpful enough when opponent can circle/deep strike around. Less need to be extra careful with positioning. Enemy can be 1" away from you closest to character but still "muah muah muah"

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 Nevelon wrote:


I was wondering how hard it would be to turn some bladeguard vets into more Victrix guard. Fundamentally they are both sword and board primaris vets.


I started looking at the Praetroian Breacher pack from Forgeworld. UM iconography on a big shield, UM Iconography gladius...

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