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So, I need some advice on building a list for a 1,750 game in a tournament. What I have settled on is this:
HQ:
1 Captain with combi-plasma and teeth of terra
1 chaplain with combi-plasma and benediction of fury
1 primaris lieutenant with bellicose rifle or 1 normal lieutenant with combi-plasma
Troops:
2 x 5 man squad of intercessors with assault rifle, sergeant with chain sword
1 x 5 man squad of intercessors with stalker bolt rifle, sergeant with chain sword
2 x 5 man squads of tactical marines, grav cannon and amp, sergeant with combi-plasma and chain sword
Elite:
1 unit of 5 boltstorm aggressors
1 unit of 5 terminators, with cyclone missile launcher (probably take 50/50 chain and power fists)
1 venerable dreadnought with twin las
Heavy:
1 squad of 3 eliminators
1 squad of 3 eradicators
1 squad of 5 hellblasters (assault plasma incinerator)
Whilst that comes to 1,750 points, I was toying with some options listed below (all based on what I have built and available). My goal is to have enough obsec troops to hold objectives, and to use the terminators, aggressors and dreadnought as one “bully bubble” to take on harder targets and the eradicators and hellblasters as another “kill squad” of sorts.
I found the hellblasters with assault incinerators really good the last couple of times I have played (15 strength 6 shots is nothing to sneeze at), but I am thinking I might need bit more durability and/or melee. I’d love your ideas on which you would do. So, would you:
1: leave the list as is
2: drop the hellblasters for another venerable dreadnought, and put auxiliary grenade launchers on the two intercessor squads with assault bolters
3: Drop the hellblasters and either one of the 90-point character or the eliminators and take two Razorbacks either with twin assault cannons (250 points) or both with twin las (240) and spend the left-over points on grenade launchers for the intercessor squads or
4: Drop the hellbasters and replace with two drop-pod and spend the remaining 25 points on melee weapons for the intercessor sergeants (e.g. maybe a power first or two).
So, I need some advice on building a list for a 1,750 game in a tournament. What I have settled on is this:
HQ:
1 Captain with combi-plasma and teeth of terra
1 chaplain with combi-plasma and benediction of fury
1 primaris lieutenant with bellicose rifle or 1 normal lieutenant with combi-plasma
Troops:
2 x 5 man squad of intercessors with assault rifle, sergeant with chain sword
1 x 5 man squad of intercessors with stalker bolt rifle, sergeant with chain sword
2 x 5 man squads of tactical marines, grav cannon and amp, sergeant with combi-plasma and chain sword
Elite:
1 unit of 5 boltstorm aggressors
1 unit of 5 terminators, with cyclone missile launcher (probably take 50/50 chain and power fists)
1 venerable dreadnought with twin las
Heavy:
1 squad of 3 eliminators
1 squad of 3 eradicators
1 squad of 5 hellblasters (assault plasma incinerator)
Whilst that comes to 1,750 points, I was toying with some options listed below (all based on what I have built and available). My goal is to have enough obsec troops to hold objectives, and to use the terminators, aggressors and dreadnought as one “bully bubble” to take on harder targets and the eradicators and hellblasters as another “kill squad” of sorts.
I found the hellblasters with assault incinerators really good the last couple of times I have played (15 strength 6 shots is nothing to sneeze at), but I am thinking I might need bit more durability and/or melee. I’d love your ideas on which you would do. So, would you:
1: leave the list as is
2: drop the hellblasters for another venerable dreadnought, and put auxiliary grenade launchers on the two intercessor squads with assault bolters
3: Drop the hellblasters and either one of the 90-point character or the eliminators and take two Razorbacks either with twin assault cannons (250 points) or both with twin las (240) and spend the left-over points on grenade launchers for the intercessor squads or
4: Drop the hellbasters and replace with two drop-pod and spend the remaining 25 points on melee weapons for the intercessor sergeants (e.g. maybe a power first or two).
Looking forward to hearing your ideas
Last time I ran across a set up like this, it was loaded out like an Iron Hands detachment.
They'd brought two extra dreads along with the venerable. Though they didn't move them up the board and two of them were more meant to be generalist builds. Assault cannon and power claw for both, and the venerable had a Las/Missile build.
As for your troops you could perhaps add an apothecary for survivability, or a chaplain to buff their output. Though if that is the case then you're going to be babysitting your Hellblasters with a captain anyway, so they re-roll the 1s. Maybe getting them into the mix with an Impulsor would be the better choice as well, but you're getting strapped for points as is.
What chapter are you running?
One has to wonder. Do the Tyranids consider drop-assault troops... fast food?
I'm running Raven Guard. I don't have an impulsor built, nor an apothecary (could probably 'counts as' that one), and only one more venerable dreadnought (total of two).
This may be useless advice but I have learned never to put plasma on critical buffing leader units. I may be the unluckiest "1" roller ever, but the temptation to fire that plasma at full strength = a dead captain in a bad moment for me. (ok, in my case, a dead inquisitor.) Combimelta may be shorter range, but its got a potentially higher power output in a pinch, and it never blows up your leader unit.
Now the way you break things down, you are going to pair everythign except the hellblaster and eradicator in one bully squad to move up the board .. and use those two to kill stuff. you COULD cut that back to a single unit of 6 eradicators (costs less than the 5 hellblaster) but puts out potentially 12 shots of melta as an alpha strike on a single heavy target. With the poitns leftover, add in the sixth aggressor you currently lack.
Now you can potentially combat squad your eradicators into 2 squads, and/or your aggressors into 2 squads, giving you 4 smaller units to put all over the board to hold stuff or offer fire support, but more importantly, you pick EITHER 6 aggressors to master of ambush into a turn 1 alpha strike position, OR 6 eradicators to do the same with. I think your tactical flexibility actually goes up by grouping your antiarmor and antihorde offense potential more compactly into single units to ambush up -- and if I remember prices right at all, you will have a few poitns left over for the trade. The hellblasters put out 15 S6 shots -- but a 6 man eradicators can focus fire out 14 shots of 24 inch melta if you set them up right, which puts the hellblaster strike somewhat to shame. Conversely, the 6 aggressors could put out a more focused antihorde, if you wanted that as your trick, and then rush forward to use their meaty fists in melee. As a gaurdsman, I assure you, that's traumatic twice.
I don't know if that is your playstyle, though, but it is a way to try to focus maximal benefit out of the master of ambush capability that a ravengaurd army brings to the table.
About drop pods, I don't think they shine here. You aren't dumping a unit of devs or a strike team of vangaurd veterans, just thinking of moving 2 squads of tac marines up the map. for a enough points to upgrade 2 units of intercessors into two units of incursors (so 10 guys) you could ALSO buy a third squad of incursors to go with your other incursors. More flexible in use, I think, than a pair of drop pods -- and not affected by auspex scans or similar strategems, not something the enemy can hedge out of arriving with a 12 inch anti-deepstrike bubble. You deploy all 3x5 up to the front, THEN master of ambush the chaplain and 5 aggressor, or 5 terminator up there as well, so that you would end up with 4 units of infantry that can fight in melee stuck deep in the enemy's face on turn 1. All those 20 infantry + chaplain show up before game start -- so they are not reinforcements, just deployments. Critically, this means you won't ever lose any to auspex scans, and you won't be hedged out by enemy infiltrator bubbles...
Well, them's my thoughts.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/26 07:43:39
Thanks for the ideas, they are really thought provoking.
As there are 4 objectives in the mission pack, and because I ran out of time to build and paint a few things, I'm leaning towards keeping the hellblasters and, depending on terrain set-up, either run them and the eradicators with the Venerable Dreadnought to maximise the re-roll 1 aura strat + the lieutenant to get re-roll 1 to wounds in one little bubble. To march up the middle and draw fire.
I am thinking of camping the eliminators and stalker bolt intercessors on the home objective, in terrain and snipe away. I think I will spend 2CP to use the RG infiltrate strategy on the two squads of tactical marines to get them near two of the objectives, then advance assault intercessors up to 'relieve them' (so they can stay stationary and get the most out of the grav cannon) and take those objectives, or at least contest them with a rain of firepower.
With the chaplain I'm leaning towards spending a CP to make it a hero of the chapter and give it master of ambush (MOA), so it and the Captain can MOA the aggressors and terminators together anywhere on the board 9" from enemies. That, with canticle of hate, re-roll 1s to hit from the captain should be a nice little shooting and melee headache for the opponent. Hope to use MOA to put them all somewhere where I can slowly make my way towards the opponents DZ objective, or near a big nasty / characters.
Either that or drop the hellblaster, take a 6th aggessor and take a squad of infiltrators to annoy opponent and nab early objective / screen out deep strike.
I'll let you know how it goes!
Dukeofstuff wrote: This may be useless advice but I have learned never to put plasma on critical buffing leader units. I may be the unluckiest "1" roller ever, but the temptation to fire that plasma at full strength = a dead captain in a bad moment for me. (ok, in my case, a dead inquisitor.) Combimelta may be shorter range, but its got a potentially higher power output in a pinch, and it never blows up your leader unit.
Now the way you break things down, you are going to pair everythign except the hellblaster and eradicator in one bully squad to move up the board .. and use those two to kill stuff.
you COULD cut that back to a single unit of 6 eradicators (costs less than the 5 hellblaster) but puts out potentially 12 shots of melta as an alpha strike on a single heavy target. With the poitns leftover, add in the sixth aggressor you currently lack.
Now you can potentially combat squad your eradicators into 2 squads, and/or your aggressors into 2 squads, giving you 4 smaller units to put all over the board to hold stuff or offer fire support, but more importantly, you pick EITHER 6 aggressors to master of ambush into a turn 1 alpha strike position, OR 6 eradicators to do the same with.
I think your tactical flexibility actually goes up by grouping your antiarmor and antihorde offense potential more compactly into single units to ambush up -- and if I remember prices right at all, you will have a few poitns left over for the trade. The hellblasters put out 15 S6 shots -- but a 6 man eradicators can focus fire out 14 shots of 24 inch melta if you set them up right, which puts the hellblaster strike somewhat to shame. Conversely, the 6 aggressors could put out a more focused antihorde, if you wanted that as your trick, and then rush forward to use their meaty fists in melee. As a gaurdsman, I assure you, that's traumatic twice.
I don't know if that is your playstyle, though, but it is a way to try to focus maximal benefit out of the master of ambush capability that a ravengaurd army brings to the table.
About drop pods, I don't think they shine here. You aren't dumping a unit of devs or a strike team of vangaurd veterans, just thinking of moving 2 squads of tac marines up the map. for a enough points to upgrade 2 units of intercessors into two units of incursors (so 10 guys) you could ALSO buy a third squad of incursors to go with your other incursors. More flexible in use, I think, than a pair of drop pods -- and not affected by auspex scans or similar strategems, not something the enemy can hedge out of arriving with a 12 inch anti-deepstrike bubble.
You deploy all 3x5 up to the front, THEN master of ambush the chaplain and 5 aggressor, or 5 terminator up there as well, so that you would end up with 4 units of infantry that can fight in melee stuck deep in the enemy's face on turn 1. All those 20 infantry + chaplain show up before game start -- so they are not reinforcements, just deployments. Critically, this means you won't ever lose any to auspex scans, and you won't be hedged out by enemy infiltrator bubbles...
How do you MoA multiple units? Its 1 officer + 1 infantry, I thought? so its either the termies or the other thing.
From where you said "With the chaplain I'm leaning towards spending a CP to make it a hero of the chapter and give it master of ambush (MOA), so it and the Captain can MOA the aggressors and terminators together anywhere on the board 9" from enemies."
If you can double take warlord traits that woudl be big news to me -- and I would have to tell my friend he has been playing it wrong all this time against me
I *thought* you can take MOA on the captain (as your warlord) and then again on the chaplain as a hero of the chapter. Edit to add: at least Battlescribe allows it on Android (RG v 23).
Further edit: yup, you were right - the text of the stratagem says each warlord trait must be unique. Bugger. I guess it's aggressive deployment and SFTS on the aggressors then.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/10/27 01:32:52
Thanks for all the great ideas and feedback on my 1,750 points list. So, for my 2k list for the ‘4 pillars’ mission, this is what I am leaning towards:
HQ:
1. Chaplain, hero of chapter (imperium’s sword), combi-plasma or combi/melta and benediction of fury, probably take litany of strength to turn him into a smash chaplain or canticle of hate for better charges on the aggressors and terminators.
2. Lieutenant with lightning claw and the Primarch’s Wrath (relic)
Troops:
1. 2 x infiltrator squads OR 2 x incursors squads with haywire mines
2. 1 x intercessor squad with assault bolter (or maybe stalker, haven’t decided) and power first on the sergeant
3. 1 x tactical squad, sergeant with combi-plasma and lightning claw, grav cannon and amp 4. 1 x tactical squad, sergeant with combi-plasma and chainsword, grav cannon and amp
Elite:
1. 1 x boltstorm aggressor squad (4)
2. 1 x boltstorm aggressor squad (3)
3. 5-man terminator squad with cyclone missile launcher, 3 x chain fists, teleport homer for repositioning shenanigans
4. Chief apothecary as my warlord, teeth of terra relic, master of trifold path with warlord traits as selfless healer and either MOA, swift and deadly (escort the aggressors and/or terminators so they can advance, shoot and charge, and then bring them back from the dead) or echo of ravenspire (disappear when the terminators use the teleport homer, reappear with them)
Heavy support:
1. 1 squad of eliminators
2. 1 squad of hellblasters (assault weapon)
3. 1 squad of eradicators
Transport:
1. 2 x razorbacks with twin las cannons and storm bolters
From what some of my friends have told me that have played the ITC version of ‘the four pillars’ you really, really need troops that can stay alive. From what they have said and from what I have read, one way to win the mission is to kill their troops (so they can’t score points) whilst keeping yours alive. I’m sure that is easier said than done.
So, with that in mind, and keeping to what I have built and/or can build with what I have, the central plank of my list is the terminators, aggressors and chief apothecary. The idea is to use them aggressively to target troops with shooting, and use melee and cyclone missile launchers against harder targets and vehicles. The apothecary will hopefully keep the units from being wiped out too fast, and I was thinking of using the ‘echo of ravenspire’ warlord trait in combination with the new repositioning function of the terminators teleport homer to move them rapidly across the battlefield if needed.
The eliminators will either nab an objective (if it is cover), or sit back and snip at characters. If I take incursors, then the plan would be to mine the objectives. Infiltrators would be used to either snag objectives if there is cover available. I am also thinking about just nabbing them, then using the smoke strat to get the -1 to hit and hope that they can stay alive long enough.
The razorbacks will have the tactical squads inside, and will try and shield my troops intercessor squad until I am ready to move them onto the objectives.
The hellblasters will be a flexible element, either being deployed ahead of the razorbacks, or escorting them, or maybe just as a glass cannon and small carnifax distractor. Lieutenant will probably sit with them. They have good volume of shots, but if/when you overcharge really need the wounds to stick.
How I use the eradicators will depend on the terrain. If possible, I might sit them in cover with a firing line to a key objective. Otherwise I might move them up with the aggressors, or use MOA on them to get near a nasty blob of the opponents best anti-troops heavy.
So, those are my thoughts. In terms of what I could do different… I have various captain models built, so I could swap out the chaplain or lieutenant for one. I also have 6 bolter inceptors and 6 plasma inceptors built, so they could also be used.
Anyway, what do you think of this list and how I plan to use it? For my successor traits, I am thinking of bolter fusillades and then either whirlwind of rage (so the melee aspect is buffed), hungry for battle or rapid assault, so that the aggressors and hellblasters can really move and shoot. I had also considered tactical withdrawal, so that the aggressor and terminators can really ensure that their melee counts.
