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So slowly buying /painting etc my Custodes army and i plan on running 3 Galatus Dreadnoughts and until the Forgeworld book is offically released for 9th we won't know their exact stats, but i KNOW they under perform and stuff, but i like the idea of 3 and a 4+ inlvun save vs any dreadnoughts gak ass saves. ANYWAYS...Anyone else kind of get the feal that in 9th Ed Dreadnoughts kind of under perform? Like Even Telemon kinda just...gets blown away? And if im investing in what 285 points into 1 model in an elite army i kind of want it to atleast feel like it can take a beating...IDK if this odd bias against Dreadnoughts seems to be one sided, but i honestly think in 9th they're almost a waste of points in most lists, especially elite armies like BANANA MEN. I also play Ad-Mech with 4 Dakka bots running Mars as a Forgeworld so my idea of what a "robot" (i know dreadnoughts aren't robots but...) can do is very skewed. I also watch a lot of batreps, Winters-SEO, Striking Scorpion82, MWG Studios and Tabletop Tactics and from watching these guys play Noughts just do not last long AT ALL and even if they do they get like A Lascannon shot or Telemon under performs, in the odd game where they do roll well its a Double-Lascannon Nought in a Iron Warriors or Ultramarines list that just seems to hit DELETE on 1 unit or they roll gak for its damage and then dies next turn. So idk, anyone else feeling this or am i just kind of...biased i guess? I want my Galatus/Telemon to feel worth it and they just don't? That being said i'm stilling running them cuz...they look cool and i like the idea of 3 shield bots as a fun side board.

Dreadnoughts can now fire into combat which is insanely awesome and definitely increases their combat potency. Something I forgot about in my first 9th ed. battle and paid the price for.

Furthermore, all Marine Dreadnoughts have a -1 to damage special rule that Custodes may also get. So maybe wait until you see what the Imperial Armour book has in store before deciding to go full bore with Dreadnoughts.

I run a Telemon and Achillus Dreadnought in my Custodes list and they have done fine in a causal setting.

At the end of the day, it's your army so do what you want with it. You will be fine in a casual setting, but it's a totally different when we're talking tournaments. But if you are thinking of running 3 Galatus, I dont think you were of that mindset anyway.

Casually speaking? You'll be fine with a couple of Dreads. The issue with taking just one is the same as taking any other vehicle - they present an instant juicy target for all of your opponent's anti-tank, so of course it goes down quick. You need that redundancy to make sure something survives and makes it to the point of being useful.
As Brutus mentioned, Dreads are now even more dangerous than they were before once up close and personal.

As far as battle reports go - remember that these players are much more experienced than your average player, because they're playing a few times a week, and most have been to tournaments too. If they're still taking Dreads in their lists, and those Dreads are being focused down hard, what does that tell you about how badly the opponent doesn't want them getting close?
And perhaps more importantly - what units are left still alive, that would have been taken down instead?

As a DG player Dreadnoughts are my main damage dealers usually, but also one of the most fragile units. Since 8th edition I rarely leave home without them cause they're very cheap and hit very hard. Take 2 in 1000points lists, 3or more at 2000.

I have a lascannon and rocket launcher dreadnought and another one with an assault cannon and melee weapon with a heavy flamer. I like both.

I love me some dreadnoughts in all their forms, they embody the Death Guard ethos perfectly.

If the new IA gives my gun + fist murdermachines the same -1 Damage we've seen in C:SM, the upcoming DG codex still lets them have Digustingly Resilient AND their points costs aren't insane, I'll be very happy.

Gotta say, I love running dread's in my Space Wolves army. I have Bjorn, Sword and Shield Venerable dread and two Redemptors, and I freaking love using them!

What do you think about the Helbrute? I want one for my 1KSons patrol army. Multimelta and Fist for 115pts seems fine.

 Super Ready wrote:
Casually speaking? You'll be fine with a couple of Dreads. The issue with taking just one is the same as taking any other vehicle - they present an instant juicy target for all of your opponent's anti-tank, so of course it goes down quick. You need that redundancy to make sure something survives and makes it to the point of being useful.
As Brutus mentioned, Dreads are now even more dangerous than they were before once up close and personal.

As far as battle reports go - remember that these players are much more experienced than your average player, because they're playing a few times a week, and most have been to tournaments too. If they're still taking Dreads in their lists, and those Dreads are being focused down hard, what does that tell you about how badly the opponent doesn't want them getting close?
And perhaps more importantly - what units are left still alive, that would have been taken down instead?

See again i think it's just my BIAS i didn't think about that. Like yeah these players are seasoned and them bringing dreads MEANS something...add in the whole "Distraction Carnifex" thing and yeah i guess you're right lol. IDK 40k seems very intensive on the whole "Turn 1 can swing the game" Almost makes me want to build an entire list that just blasts into orbit turn 1 just to get within 9 inches turn 2/3. See my problem with them atm is that they just feel so FRAGILE?? That and the fact that the Galatus's Melta/Flamer shooting thing on their sword is an 8 inch range really bothers me, like you can put this thing in orbit and hard drop him in 9 inches, but he still can't shoot his auto hitting shots. Yeah idk I know 100% the 3 lists Dreads are nuts in are Iron Warriors/Death Guard and SPACE WOLVES. Got a lot of SPACE MARINEZ players in my area and with my only army being Ad Mech atm those dreads just feel like point dumps to me.


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 Denegaar wrote:
What do you think about the Helbrute? I want one for my 1KSons patrol army. Multimelta and Fist for 115pts seems fine.

So from what i've seen Helbrutes are okay and it's much more of a style choice, but on average just taking some Obliterators seems to perform better. You can hide obliterors and drop them in behind enemies (can do that will brutes too now) but thats 3 models with a potential of some DISGUSTING shots/damage/AP and staying power. Makes me sad they removed them from Death Guard as DG Obliterators were fething disgusting.

Rahdok wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Denegaar wrote:
What do you think about the Helbrute? I want one for my 1KSons patrol army. Multimelta and Fist for 115pts seems fine.

So from what i've seen Helbrutes are okay and it's much more of a style choice, but on average just taking some Obliterators seems to perform better. You can hide obliterors and drop them in behind enemies (can do that will brutes too now) but thats 3 models with a potential of some DISGUSTING shots/damage/AP and staying power. Makes me sad they removed them from Death Guard as DG Obliterators were fething disgusting.

Nice, thank you. I really like the model and it seems fun to build and magnetize it. Looks like the Contemptor is better, but it doesn't look as Chaotic I guess I could play one counting as the other, as the weapons are similar.

I used to own 12 marine dreads of varying types and loved them, but that was back in 5th edition.

Now i own a telemon and an Achilles. Havent gotten to use the achilles yet, but the telemon is doing fine.

The only armies that can blow it up instantly are harlequins and marines (built with 12+ lazcannon shots). Nothing else has killed it quickly unless i rolled badly.

14 wounds T8 with a 2+4++6+++ and -1 damage (with potentially -1str, no rerolls) is incredibly durable. You can even get 5+++ againgst mortal wounds.

I started recently using him as a backfield objective camper with the autocannons, as he's only 35 points more expensive than a Caladius and far more durable.

I love walkers- not just dreads.

If I played Marines, I'd want a pure dread detachment. I think some of the SW dreads might even be HQ. I think Librarian and Chaplain Dreads are HQ too.

Not enough of an SM player to know for sure.

Karamazov + 12 Mortifiers and 9 Penitent Engines is the Wlaker detachment I'm more likely to field.

Rahdok wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Denegaar wrote:
What do you think about the Helbrute? I want one for my 1KSons patrol army. Multimelta and Fist for 115pts seems fine.

So from what i've seen Helbrutes are okay and it's much more of a style choice, but on average just taking some Obliterators seems to perform better. You can hide obliterors and drop them in behind enemies (can do that will brutes too now) but thats 3 models with a potential of some DISGUSTING shots/damage/AP and staying power. Makes me sad they removed them from Death Guard as DG Obliterators were fething disgusting.

Oblits aren't an option for him eaither

Yeah i mean i got a sideboard 2k point of Custodes thats 3 Galatus Dreadnoughts with 6 Allarus Terminators and a VExilus praetor all hot dropping in turn 2 for gaks n gigs. BUT idk what fethed up thing forgeworld is going to do to the Galatus when the book drops. I imagine Saggittarum Guard and all 3 dreads are going to increase easily 5-20 points each making the Achilles and Galatus just crappy.

PenitentJake wrote:
I love walkers- not just dreads.
If I played Marines, I'd want a pure dread detachment. I think some of the SW dreads might even be HQ. I think Librarian and Chaplain Dreads are HQ too.
Not enough of an SM player to know for sure.

Traditionally, Blood Angels was always the way to go for this. You've got 3 unique dreads (Librarian, Furioso and Death Company), with the former fulfilling the HQ slot without having to look at Forgeworld. Wolves do technically have 3 unique dread datasheets... but Bjorn and Murderfang are both named characters, so only one each, only Bjorn counts as a HQ, and Murderfang is just a fancy version of the 3rd dread anyway (Wulfen).

Beyond that, though - all the other Codex dreads go into the Elites slot (that's standard, Contemptor, Venerable, Ironclad, Redemptor, and the Invictor walker). So if you really wanted to go hard on the theme, the absolute maximum you're looking at in one go with Marines, is Blood Angels in the Vanguard detachment. 2 Librarians in the HQ slot, and 6 Elites of your choice. That also means being 3CP down and a maximum of 2 Troops choices so you'd be struggling to actually play objectives well.

With that in mind, it seems like your Sisters idea is better purely for squeezing in more walkers in one detachment and having cheaper units in order to squeeze those Troops in too.

 Super Ready wrote:

PenitentJake wrote:
I love walkers- not just dreads.
If I played Marines, I'd want a pure dread detachment. I think some of the SW dreads might even be HQ. I think Librarian and Chaplain Dreads are HQ too.
Not enough of an SM player to know for sure.

Traditionally, Blood Angels was always the way to go for this. You've got 3 unique dreads (Librarian, Furioso and Death Company), with the former fulfilling the HQ slot without having to look at Forgeworld. Wolves do technically have 3 unique dread datasheets... but Bjorn and Murderfang are both named characters, so only one each, only Bjorn counts as a HQ, and Murderfang is just a fancy version of the 3rd dread anyway (Wulfen).

Beyond that, though - all the other Codex dreads go into the Elites slot (that's standard, Contemptor, Venerable, Ironclad, Redemptor, and the Invictor walker). So if you really wanted to go hard on the theme, the absolute maximum you're looking at in one go with Marines, is Blood Angels in the Vanguard detachment. 2 Librarians in the HQ slot, and 6 Elites of your choice. That also means being 3CP down and a maximum of 2 Troops choices so you'd be struggling to actually play objectives well.

If you want to go hard on the theme you will look at the FW options.
And that Invictor? That's not a dreadnought.

ccs wrote:
If you want to go hard on the theme you will look at the FW options.

Very true. The Chaplain Dread in particular seems a nice fluffy HQ choice to me.

And that Invictor? That's not a dreadnought.

No, but - PenitentJake made it very clear all walkers are up for consideration. So I'd have been remiss not to mention it.