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Guard in a tough place so wanted to try something a bit different - exploiting what we have

Underlying concepts:
*Infantry list - leaning heavily into horde to negate high damage weapons
*Exploit mobility of guard infantry
*Exploit good current points for plasma
*Use reserves to protect small units
*Re-roll 1's bubble as plasma heavy (Yarrick)
*Exploit obs sec and board control


200ish models
Brigade + Battalion (-3CP)
Grand Strategist/Kurov's Aquila for ingame CP generation

Yarrick
Lord Commisar
3x Company Commanders
3x Platoon Commanders
2x Astropath

140 Infantry (14 plasma gun)
30 Veterans (9 plasma gun)
18 Special Weapon members (3x squads - 9 special weapons)
12 Command squad members (3x squads - 12 special weapons)
3x Heavy Weapon Teams
3x Scout Sentinel

*Mortars for indirect fire
*Sentinels to push out and block channels pregame (scout) and suck fire T1
*tries to leverage what you can do with bodies - deep strike deny, raise banners, take board quarters, move block, board control - whilst using special weapons for damage application.
*18" on plasma and lasguns
*priority target anti infantry


Yarrick Bomb 2CP (502pts/19PL)


Mathhammer

Re-roll hit rolls of 1 (Yarrick)
Re-roll wound rolls of 1 (orders - all command squads and 1 special weapon team)

at <18" - plasmagun - overcharged

-Damage v Primaris marine (T4 3+ save) =38 wounds/19 marines killed
-Damage v Heavy Tank (T8 3+ save) =26 wounds
-Damage v knight (T8 3+/5++) =20 wounds

threat range 24" from board edge (6" deploy +18" rapid fire range)



Reflections welcomed

You’re going to get mowed down by blast weapons I think

I'm kinda bullish on grand strategist and Kurov's aquila with tactical restraint a thing now. Each of those will net you maybe 2 CP over the course of a six turn game when realistically most games are decided in the first two or three. As it it'll offset the cost of taking two detachments, which just seems like a waste of 3 cp for two extra infantry squads. Ditch the battalion, fill out the brigade.

With the points saved, consider an armour sentinel bomb to make use of the new strategems. 3x kraken missiles and 3x hunter killer hitting on 2's rerolling 1s if cadian. Deft maneuvering keeps them survivable too. Combined with psychic barrier or nightshroud can make them a real bullet sponge.

I've found blast on 10man squads balanced about by changes to morale overall, not particularly concerned by that. In addition you are going hard after those weapon carriers in particular.

@slip yeah that's fair point - its actually elite slots that are tight.

For CP farm Maths tells me I should get 4/12 of each (assuming in game). I will admit to never having had more than 2 back but thats my dice rolling ability.....

I'm worried as infantry only its actually light on bodies!

Ah, tactical restraint only let's you use each once per battle round, that's your turn and theirs. Severe nerf imho.

If you are rolling cadian, consider STT as your warlord traits, paired with laurels of command. It's a combo basically made for you. Their effects stack, allowing you to chain orders as long as you can keep rolling 4+.

 alextroy wrote:
JohnnyHellHas it almost correct.

The Company Commander can issue orders twice, however, each time he does, he does the following.

1) Company Commander issues order to unit (A)
2) Roll for Superior Tactical Training. If successful the order issued in 1 is applied to a second unit (B)
3) Roll for Laurels of Command.
4) If Laurels of Command was successful issue a bonus order to Unit A, then roll for Superior Tactical Training.
5) If second Superior Tactical Training was successful, extend the bonus order to another unit. This may be unit B per the FAQ or another unit.

Once you've done the above for your first order, you may issue your second order and follow the same process.

There is also a strategem to issue an additional order.

This allows you to issue frfsrf, the hit reroll, and the wound reroll to up to 8 infantry units i believe. (Max)

If you aren't going cadians, the custom doctrine allowing you to rapid fire up to 18" would be great as it applies to your plasma and combos with the order stacking above. (Rereading your list it seems you're going this route.) Agile or wilderness survivors would be good in addition. The latter would help survivability and the former would stack with mmm for that good mobility you are looking for.

Relooking at the list, id trade the commissar for another cc and dump the platoon commanders too.

I can't really see how to get you to a single brigade, but you could still downgrade the second detachment to a patrol and save a cp. You could use that to take Kurov's in addition to stt/loc.

So here is my version of this list, basically, but cadian flavour.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
I know its not quite the thing you are doing here, but just fyi there is an army I call "missles^3" that I can (just barely) run.
Its gone through some right radical changes since the end of running all elysian and all cadian back in eighth, but its basically.

Since people mentioned a cadian version of this, I think mine is well suited to all comers, it has answers for hordes, armor, and such, all built in. I am actually pretty happy with this as a ninth edition force. 38 grenade launchers and 27 missle launchers give this list a good ranged punch, but the availability of both the relic of lost cadia (which works as reroll 1/1 on anything) AND old grudges (which means something like mortarion might as well stay home) gives it a solid synergy.

creed
3 company commander
one has the warlord trait superior tactical training, and the laurels of command.
one has the relic of lost cadia (its sort of cool to put that on a DIFFERENT one) (-1 cp)
one has the aquila of getting back cp cause it might (-2cp)
color sargeant kell
12 infantry with 12 missle launch and 12 grenade
3 veteran infantry with 9 grenade and 3 missle launch
3 spec weaps squads with 9 grenade
3 command squads with 6 grenade and 3 missle launcher (and 3 lasgun)
1 astropath
1 inquisitor malleus (with combimelta) and dual psyker power upgrade. knows psychic pursuit and castigate
3 heavy weapons squads with 9 missle launchers (and 9 lasguns)
1 tempest prime (extra warlord trait .. old grudge)(-1 cp)
1 5 man scions squad with 2 grenade launcher

So its battalion A (cadian) and battalion B (cadian) and patrol C (scions). This has the advantage of giving you an extra warlord trait outside the usual chain of command (and if you don't think old grudges is useful with all these missles and grenades going off, you have never blown mortarion's scaley buttcheeks to hell.)

This army starts with 3 CP but can regen them pretty fast. (Alternate, if you REALLY want to, you can start with the warlord trait superior tactical training on his lordship Creed, and the laurels will become rather less effective, but the aura sphere of creed will increase the range of the order sets going out. This grants you an extra 2+ cp, starting you at 5 rather than 3, and still permitting relic of lost cadia, old grudges on the scion, laurels on a random generic company commander, and the aquila in play.)

This army isn't perfect but I think its a very themeatic gaurdhorde all its own, and solidly competitive in ninth edition. I would put it up against any craptastic army of catachans or any newfangled army of people who can't pass out 3+6+1+maybe 3 more orders a round to their troops.

An alternative way to run this doctrine is the running cadians. Don't take the scions at all, but bring in yarrik as a command element in battalion A or B, so that you can reroll 1's to hit while on the move. Just don't expect incredible accuracy with the missle launchers while your teams are sprinting for cover midfield. This more mobile version requires some poor schlub in a gaurd squad to give up a single missle launcher and swap in a mortar, as it is a 5 point net cost increase.


Anyway, whatcha think? I know its not doubletapping out to 18 inches but this list is firing its frag and krak out to 24/48 all over the place -- and its occasinally a real suprise to an enemy that you have that inquisitor, too.

That is a damn fine list, but I may be biased. Imho Grenade launchers and missile launchers give the best tactical flexibility on the board. In ideal situations, the plasma is better, sure, but conditions are rarely ideal. 17% Overheating is easy to shrug off writing a list, but can really kick you in the pants at the worst time.

I'd still ditch kurov's haha. I'd rather the 2 cp up front then getting one on t2 and another two on t5 + t6 when we're playing out a done game.

As for cadian accuracy on the move, that's what the relic is for!

yup you're right about the regen, forgot that.

I went for plasma as so good at efficiently picking up marines in particular. With denser terrain move and shoot with special weapons also attractive and the 18" generally fine. In my area not sure if the denser terrain is due to edition.... or simply that the nice GW stuff been out longer so players collections of it getting bigger!!

Yarrick re-roll ones really helps with that overcharge for the plasma and that's the central concept. (agree for general infantry point stands).

The ability to reserve stuff is I think big for an infantry list - here its trying to ensure you get to actually use them as otherwise SWT and Command Squads get picked up so easily.

Cadian are worth it with infantry I agree simply for the volume of orders that charachters add - but the extra range on lasguns (so getting double shots off ) works well for the squad and army wide 4+ v sv v shooting especially as higher shot volume weapons tend to have lower AP.

I haven't tried the Yarrick bomb posted above yet so can't yet comment on effectiveness in game - in particular what's left after counter hit! but again 18" gives you flexibility on reserve deploy to both get attack in and position behind cover etc.

Going even further left field! I played around with melta first and Tallarn - as can advance and shoot so 12"+d6 (for advance) effective range. Mathammer not so favourable on that, but would be fun.

special weapons are (imho) really well costed currently for guard.