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Made in pl
Fresh-Faced New User




Well, before we get a new GK codex I think I will play something like this:
2k points, 2x Patrol

3x GMNDK
Psycanon, Psilencer, Teleporter, Nemesis Sword

2x5 SS

10x Palladins
(probably with 4x Psilencer)

3x NDK
2x Fist, Teleporter, Psilencer, Heavy Incinerator

There is still some micromanagment i have to think about (mainly weapons and warlord traits)
I'm thinking on swapping one of NDK's for draigo or Library+Apothecary or something to generally buff and keep palladinbomb alive, but im not sure about it yet, since this way, palladins can gate every turn, and you can't teleport buffing heroes.
All I wanna do with this army is throw all my robots and palladin bomb at my opponents and hope its enough to take them down.
What do you all think ?
   
Made in us
Nervous Accuser




Atlanta, Ga

High risk, high reward. I can at least admire the build, though I can see that you're going to have some definite issues in running against a more coordinated army.
Especially something that has access to high AP weapons and can kite your units around the field. Eldar & Dark Eldar both come to mind.

A full squad of cultist and a dark apostle are going to pretty much laugh at your paladins and tar-pi the hell out of them.. it's not going to really hurt them, but that's not what they were there for. So your main saving grace here is that your army is highly mobile and can punch with the weight of a oil rig. On top of being space wizards.

I usually run a far more varied force, because the whole 3x Dreadknights was somewhat of a cheesy list to run back in 7th and stayed as such for a time. And now that they can load a Grand Master in there, it's a rather prohibitive measure to pull. The term of "all your eggs in one basket" comes to mind.
Taking Draigo is a nice touch, he's a powerful force multiplier and can pretty much chew through most other upper tier CC models in the game. Limit your Paladins to a squad of 5 and keep an apothecary between them and Draigo. You'll get far more milage out of them than just a max squad of paladins and if the apothecary can either fully heal Draigo, or bring back a paladin model. Then he's basically paid for himself twice over.

Snag a group of interceptors and start with them on the field. Using their jump to snag objectives, or to outflank your opponent.

Are there any units that you are not sure about picking up?
Because I can already suggest a land raider as a nice source of anti-armor and it makes a nice distraction for Draigo's little death ball. If you can find the points, plop an ancient in there as well.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/21 02:20:29


One has to wonder. Do the Tyranids consider drop-assault troops... fast food? 
   
Made in pl
Fresh-Faced New User




Well I just dislike idea of playing army of 1 wound power armor's / 2 wound terminators in the field of 2 wound power armours and 3 wound terminators, thats why I focused my armylist around palladins (3 wound but a little more expensive then regular termies) and Nemesis Dreadknights (they can move shot, and shot in combat if locked down, so their dmg output is higher then it used to be).

Im 100% sure I want to use 3x GMNDK but im not too sure about regular ones, they are cheaper but they loose ws/bs, 1 invaruable save, and reroll of 1ns to hit, im not sure if they are worth the points.

What I wish i could include is:
Apothecary
Palladin Ancient
More heroes overall, voldus and draigo are probably my best choices
Venerable drednought with missle luncher and twin lascannon hidden behind losblock and astral aiming for some safe Anti tank.
   
Made in us
Nervous Accuser




Atlanta, Ga

Well you don't need all of the Grand Masters, you just need one so you can spread the effects of his aura around. An aura that Draigo offers as well.
What you are trying to eliminate here is the possibility of losing more models per turn than you can manage on normal settings. Namely because if it's just one large target, then a player can just pile mortal wounds, full firepower onto that one model and remove it from the table top. The reason that players run entire units of other models, is because it helps them screen off those same wounds that would normally be an issue for singular models.

Your main issue is that GKs have always been more of an elites army. Small unit counts and very little presence on the table to begin with. So you may want to keep your model count as spread out as possible to alleviate any wound bleed that your army can face.

Those three Grand master NDKs, cost 55pts more than Draigo does, a piece. An apothecary cost 80 and the Ancient cost 100, 105 if you want him to have his storm bolter and falchion. He can also accept a special weapon, but that is not advised. Unless you are looking to increase your heavy weapon saturation for your army. So it's a toss up between the incinerator, or his storm bolter.

A somewhat niche tactic back in 7th was to run two NDKs as boxers. Take their teleporters, their fist, perhaps their incinerators, and just punch anything that they came across. Now with a degrading state line, you may want to put more into shoring up a few more of your units, or adding something else to your arsenal.

You can't really go wrong with a venerable dreadnought and with a GM nearby, you'll be hitting 97% of the time. You could also load him down as a doom glaive pattern, which is still a legal load-out to use, or just plop him on the field as a melee walker and Gate him right up your opponents nose.

The Apothecary and the Ancient are both great force multipliers and where they shine over most of their other loyalist counterparts, is that they both possess rather impressive stats and are just as capable as other GK units.
Funny enough, if you are taking Draigo, then I would not suggest taking Voldus. Just take a stock librarian and get the Artisan Nullifier Matrix.
You now have a unit that can pretty much Deny anything and everything shot in his direction, short of some of the more powerful Eldar shenanigans, or even Magnus. You can also take some more interesting weapon choices for your librarian. Combi-plas/grav/flame weapons, and he's far more capable in melee than other librarian counterparts. So take his warding staff for that free +1 invul in melee. I'm not sure if it's still legal through normal Codex folding. But you could take this guy with a storm shield originally and that would max him out to a 2++ save.

I would suggest just taking the combi-flamer. Because a decrease in BS due to firing both weapons, matters very little when your second gun is an auto-hit.

Your army consist of badass silvered space knights/monks/wizards. So why not have fun with it?

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2020/11/22 02:19:27


One has to wonder. Do the Tyranids consider drop-assault troops... fast food? 
   
Made in us
Journeyman Inquisitor with Visions of the Warp






Dimmamar

Drop the psilencers from the NDKs and a Paladin body and use the points to get the apothecary.
NDK shooting is really not great, and they're threatening enough with just the incinerator and fists.
Mathhammer says that a NDK psilencer will kill ONE marine, or 3 GEQ. Not really worth it.

LVO 2017 - Best GK Player

The Grimdark Future 8500 1000 1500 4500

"[We have] an inheritance which is beyond the reach of change and decay." 1 Peter 1.4
"With the Emperor there is no variation or shadow due to change." James 1.17
“Fear the Emperor; do not associate with those who are given to change.” Proverbs 24.21
"By time I mean that which is indicated by some changing motion." City of God, Book XII Ch 16 
   
Made in pl
Fresh-Faced New User




Even under GM reroll ? U still think its bad idea ?
   
Made in us
Nervous Accuser




Atlanta, Ga

Given how the rules run, he's correct.
You're basically loading down these guys as heavy weapon platforms, and by tossing ranged weapons on them. You'll be taxing your army more points by putting more weapons on.

They are always going to be punching above their weight class and you take these weapons if you really "Need" that heavy weapon saturation.
The fact of the matter is, GKs are always going to be one of those armies that you need to squeeze points into certain areas, to get your best outcome.

I'm sure that if you play the army as you're intending right now, that you'll find some good effect from the DreadKnights. But if you happen to take those extra weapons and then your shooting phase takes 3 models off the enemy formation. You could find that those three models are the ones that you needed to make the charge connect.

Eric's suggestion was more to help your force be proficient and give you the ability to have the extra points to supply the apothecary.

Math-wise, a full SS with glaives/falchions will outperform those 3 Dreadknights. Especially with hammer-hand active.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/01 03:13:30


One has to wonder. Do the Tyranids consider drop-assault troops... fast food? 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





I agree I’ve never run the psilencers because the hit/wound/save ratio just doesn’t work well enough.
   
Made in us
Nervous Accuser




Atlanta, Ga

Stalked21 wrote:
I agree I’ve never run the psilencers because the hit/wound/save ratio just doesn’t work well enough.


Your best bet for Psilencers being maximized in effectiveness, is to have them being buffed by someone like Draigo. But that's a pretty steep investment for just a simple re-roll and all of the other HQ sources only allow for a re-roll of 1s. And that can still only be limited to melee in some instances.

Though I do have a build for running two full purifier squads, one with psilencers and the other is psycanons. Given astral aim and the psi-bolt stratagem, they can pretty much threaten anything on the board. But that's a very niche choice and only in a very few limited circumstances. Because GKs are in no way a ranged superiority group and they will always be far more effective in melee due to their psychic powers.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/02 01:59:24


One has to wonder. Do the Tyranids consider drop-assault troops... fast food? 
   
Made in us
Nervous Accuser




Atlanta, Ga

Jabberscythe wrote:
Spoiler:
Well, before we get a new GK codex I think I will play something like this:
2k points, 2x Patrol

3x GMNDK
Psycanon, Psilencer, Teleporter, Nemesis Sword

2x5 SS

10x Palladins
(probably with 4x Psilencer)

3x NDK
2x Fist, Teleporter, Psilencer, Heavy Incinerator

There is still some micromanagment i have to think about (mainly weapons and warlord traits)
I'm thinking on swapping one of NDK's for draigo or Library+Apothecary or something to generally buff and keep palladinbomb alive, but im not sure about it yet, since this way, palladins can gate every turn, and you can't teleport buffing heroes.
All I wanna do with this army is throw all my robots and palladin bomb at my opponents and hope its enough to take them down.
What do you all think?


Any other thoughts on your build?
You have a strong melee force of monsters that can pretty much tear through anything on the tabletop. But you are going to need to be extremely aggressive and accurate with your choice of targets.

The suggestions so far have been to give you more bodies and more versatility. A librarian and apothecary would allow your army to have more powers at it's disposal and the required staying power to make your paladins last as long as possible.

I would also suggest you take a look at all of the powers available to you for the army. Peeling more MWs off of a target can only help you and there are more than enough armies out there that can cheese some of their invuln saves.
If you have any other questions, I'm all for answering what I can.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/03 01:59:06


One has to wonder. Do the Tyranids consider drop-assault troops... fast food? 
   
Made in pl
Fresh-Faced New User




Are there any rules in 9 edition that prohibit to put 100% of your army to a deepstrike ? I cant find the rulings and I remeber in 8th it had to be half of army (both unit and power rating wise)
   
Made in us
Nervous Accuser




Atlanta, Ga

Jabberscythe wrote:
Are there any rules in 9 edition that prohibit to put 100% of your army to a deepstrike ? I cant find the rulings and I remeber in 8th it had to be half of army (both unit and power rating wise)


Still half I think, at least that's how most of us at the shop have been playing it.
Though that still plays into getting that all necessary first turn.

If you want to save on teleporting units and still have a force that can pop in up the field, interceptors are your best bet.

Edit:
Turns out it's all relegated to strategic reserves now, as with the FAQ update and that was leaked early by a GW employee. So it is possible to load your entire army up into deep strike, but at a major cost to CPs.

Edit#2:
Okay, I've been looking around and I've found plenty of mixed signals on just how much you can put into reserve. Though I did find an interesting article on BOLS.
https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2020/07/40k-unleashing-white-scars-in-9th-edition.html

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/12/04 13:04:10


One has to wonder. Do the Tyranids consider drop-assault troops... fast food? 
   
Made in pl
Fresh-Faced New User




I did struggle finding reliable ruling for this aswell.
I think that putting a lot of forces into a deepstrike can help you mitigate the problem of loosing your army too quickly, it essentialy gives 1 or 2 turns less for your opponent to shoot and or fight with your obsec troops.
But i agree, for the purpose of missions starting the whole army in reinforcments might not be the best idea.
When it comes to army list
Right now Im in the spot where I would really like to deploy all 6 Dreadknights (or at least 5 ) but I struggle to justify picking regular ones as i dont have any tools to keep them alive.
I was thinking about sth like this
3x gmndk
3x 5 terminators
10 palladins
Palladin ancient
Apothecary
With weapons and all upgrades its exacly 2000 points
   
Made in us
Nervous Accuser




Atlanta, Ga

So why 3 GMNDKs?

The only time I've seen someone run three is when they bring them along as a separate detachment and if you have your other forces move along with them. Then you're going to miss out on covering all that ground, or at worse, get your army surrounded. You'll also be losing out on collecting objectives, though given the army's small numbers that's always going to be an issue.

So you are mostly going to bomb the center of your opponents forces with the GMs and hopefully keep pushing through while you sweep across with your terminators, saving your paladins for the necessary targets. Command squads and the such.
You'll do better keeping the paladins with their Halberds and the Paragon gets to swing the hammer, as usual. Just make sure to keep the ancient and apothecary within range to benefit from their abilities. But don't be afraid to get them stuck in there with the other models, as both of them can be considered a beefed up Paragon themselves. On top of that, literally everything other then the GMs are going to have access to full Bolter Discipline rolls.

Your army is going to easily swing above it's weight class, but the moment you start to lose models. It's going to hurt you far more than it typically should with GKs.

One has to wonder. Do the Tyranids consider drop-assault troops... fast food? 
   
Made in pl
Fresh-Faced New User




I have few ideas about grey knights, but im not sure how viaable they are :
GMNDK with sanctic shard
Librarian with artisian nullifier matrix
(Vortex and purge soul)
Techmarine with 2d3 repair relic
Gmndk with inner fire getting +4 to cast and powerfull adept
Possibly even 3d6 pick 2 highest stratagem and ignore mortal wounds on 5+ .
If i understand new lookout sir rules correctly gmndk provides cover for heros as long as he is closer to the shooting units and within 3” of them. With all of the defensive options and repair I think im pretty durable (tide of shadows - 1+/3++, -1 to hit , posibbly to wound, -1 damage, 5+++ against mortal wounds etc.).
Having reliable way to cast 7” inner fire at +4 to cast means i can throw out a LOT of mortal wounds, bumping it up with vortex and purge soul means my mortal wound output is close to a magnus level.

Second mortal wound bomb ive been thinking off is LRC with 3x purifire and castellan crowe with ability to deepstrike/gate brotherhood captain if needed. I think becouse tide of shadows and sanctuary we have the best landraiders in game, we can double move them, or just gate them around table.
(Or just 3x razorback for less utility but similar dakka dakka and more wounds to chew through)
Since im not casting regular smites, I can reliably cast their 4d6 mortal wound when I need it.

Both of this options benefit from having techmarine and can be played alongside good old palladin bomb.
Im still crafting a list, as Im short on hero slots or cp if i take dedicated non taxing detachments.
   
Made in us
Nervous Accuser




Atlanta, Ga

I never run more than two dreadknights and only one of them is ever the GM.
I run them as either a boxing troupe with flamers, or as sword and hammer bro (hammer on the GM). For head hunting those especially tough targets.

3x 5unit terminator groups packing glaives. As my front line.

2x 10unit interceptor squads as my sweeping units. Starting them on the field and porting them up the board, with falchions and hammer hand to keep them cost-effective.

I will also pack a Stormraven with either a 4 man paladin squad and either Voldos, or with a five man squad and Draigo ports in ahead of them. Along with a melee dreadnought loaded in the back packing all flamers, or even running as a doomglaive. (I love that these guys arms are so easy to switch around.)

Everything else is up in the air as to what I need.

More enemy vehicles: I can load down three razorbacks packing LCs, or a venerable with missiles/lascannon.

-------

If you're short for characters, make a chaplain, or another brother captain. Those conversions are very simple to do and playing loose with a few bits here & there never hurt.
My brother captain is a full mix of several different models, with a filed down and slightly re-molded sanguinary mask. Not to mention the whole mix of separate patterns of terminator armor (Deathwatch has a use in this regard).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/25 12:54:39


One has to wonder. Do the Tyranids consider drop-assault troops... fast food? 
   
 
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