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Seeing as Disgustingly Resiliant was changed for Death Guard have a feeling that the same will be happening to Drukhari and the 6+++ will turn into another bonus. Kind of curious about how to give a durability buff to what are predominantly 1w models without tweaking base stats. Maybe a -1str min 1 to enemy ranged and melee attacks targeting the model.

operkoi wrote:
Seeing as Disgustingly Resiliant was changed for Death Guard have a feeling that the same will be happening to Drukhari and the 6+++ will turn into another bonus. Kind of curious about how to give a durability buff to what are predominantly 1w models without tweaking base stats. Maybe a -1str min 1 to enemy ranged and melee attacks targeting the model.

Still too soon to talk.

I expect the dark kin to be the most changed codex in 9th.

After all, he is the father of the modern codex design. The turn by turn structure of Power from Pain has been used as the basis for SM doctrines, Necrons protocols and now DG contagions.

Yeah. Basically a coin flip.

Iron Hands 6+++ stayed just as it was, though they obviously got the wound boost as Marines.

6+++ on (presumably still) 1-wound models means a lot less in 9th than it did in 8th.

I would expect a fairly thorough overhaul of Drukhari in their entirety.

Well would't mind that myself. You can balance things out either way so just because 6+++ would go away wouldn't mean army would be worse off. Would mean less dice rolling. My slowest games in 40k are almost invariably been vs dark eldar. Lots of units, loooots o rerolls and FNP on everywhere and 6+++ at that so looooots of dice rolling for little effect generally.

If DE and snakebite army wide 6+++ goes away would speed up game nicely. As long as they are compensated in one way or another sufficiently no issue balance wise either. You could even give even more powerful ability like -1 to wound them that's at worst(for DE) still 20% drop in successfull wound rolls(when you go from 2+ to 3+) and I wouldn't mind that(as long as properly costed of course). My issue isn't with power of DE. I'm not wanting them to see nerfed, I don't mind them getting buffed, I just want less dice rolls to slow things down and FNP adds annoying slowdown even with 1 wound model(2+ wound models it becomes nightmare due to no fast dice rolling possible). I would also like to see rerolls reduced in game but alas that boat sailed away with first codexes for 9th :(

A version of Transhuman could be fun, flat 4 up might be a touch too much at the start but 3 up going to 4 down the line is a diceless soultion

There is an argument to just ditch the FNP mechanic - but little evidence that's what GW wants to do. Ultimately I think the 5+++ is going just because it was hard to balance.

It would be interesting if they did something else - but its an obvious mechanism to make squishy Elves slightly less squishy. My concern would be more that DE lose it in exchange for their supposedly much buffed combat ability/guns/whatever. Which might work competitively - but, you know.

Tyel wrote:
My concern would be more that DE lose it in exchange for their supposedly much buffed combat ability/guns/whatever.

How buffed do you actually expect them to be? I'll buy you a Coke if they're anything as good as meltarifles.

I would gladly lose the PfP table that we know in exchange of something more fluffy, like gaining buffs the more damage we do to our enemy.

Current version is nice to have, but it feels disconnected from the army. Well, the whole book feels disconnected and poorly balanced with itself (even if very good during 8th edition).

Inured to Suffering is one of those buffs that is better have than not, but half the games it just not present.
Something that could work to boost our durability is gaining evasion (become harder to be hit) the faster we move.

Rolling dice fishing for sixes is a wasteful rule. I would be glad to see it gone (with commensurate replacement).

The current DE codex is just boring - there's none of the deviousness or malice one would expect. They should be big on inflicting debuffs on opponents.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

Tyel wrote:
My concern would be more that DE lose it in exchange for their supposedly much buffed combat ability/guns/whatever.

How buffed do you actually expect them to be? I'll buy you a Coke if they're anything as good as meltarifles.

I don't know really. Cynicism obviously abounds - but the 8th index->Codex was good for DE.
We have the ominous declaration of "more attacks, higher damage, lethal combat output across the board".

Then the Incubi reveal.
Which to be fair, isn't bad. An additional point of strength is nice. 2 damage over 1 damage is very nice. WS2+ straight away rather than turn 3 is nice - depending on what this means for Power from Pain etc - but it could mean they gain another ability. If the plan is to chop Marines - even Death Guard - the boosts over the old version are considerable while seemingly - if we gauge by power level - they remain 16 points.
Versus say Intercessors they expect to inflict 2.5 times as many points worth of damage if fighting in the 2nd turn before any other changes.
Lethal precision - (3*2/3*1/6*5/6*20)+regular - (3*2/3*1/3*5/6*10)=11.5/16 compared with 3*5/6*2/3*5/6*20=27.777/16.

So (at the 16 points) you are putting out comparable damage to units which cost dramatically more. Admittedly however, you are T3/3+ 1 wound, and so will die much easier than those units if ever targeted, but its not dramatically different from now, even if they were to lose a 6+++.

As for the rest I don't know. Will dual-cannon venoms for instance get 20 shots rather than 12 because GW loves people rolling buckets of dice? Will Kabalites weirdly get 2 attacks and poisoned knives and become a more rounded troops unit with *some* assault potential? Will Wyches get more attacks than Jain Zar even before drugs/knives etc (hahaha).

Will Dark Lances remain trash tier? Probably.

Tyel wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

Tyel wrote:
My concern would be more that DE lose it in exchange for their supposedly much buffed combat ability/guns/whatever.

How buffed do you actually expect them to be? I'll buy you a Coke if they're anything as good as meltarifles.

I don't know really. Cynicism obviously abounds - but the 8th index->Codex was good for DE.
We have the ominous declaration of "more attacks, higher damage, lethal combat output across the board".

Then the Incubi reveal.
Which to be fair, isn't bad. An additional point of strength is nice. 2 damage over 1 damage is very nice. WS2+ straight away rather than turn 3 is nice - depending on what this means for Power from Pain etc - but it could mean they gain another ability. If the plan is to chop Marines - even Death Guard - the boosts over the old version are considerable while seemingly - if we gauge by power level - they remain 16 points.
Versus say Intercessors they expect to inflict 2.5 times as many points worth of damage if fighting in the 2nd turn before any other changes.
Lethal precision - (3*2/3*1/6*5/6*20)+regular - (3*2/3*1/3*5/6*10)=11.5/16 compared with 3*5/6*2/3*5/6*20=27.777/16.

So (at the 16 points) you are putting out comparable damage to units which cost dramatically more. Admittedly however, you are T3/3+ 1 wound, and so will die much easier than those units if ever targeted, but its not dramatically different from now, even if they were to lose a 6+++.

As for the rest I don't know. Will dual-cannon venoms for instance get 20 shots rather than 12 because GW loves people rolling buckets of dice? Will Kabalites weirdly get 2 attacks and poisoned knives and become a more rounded troops unit with *some* assault potential? Will Wyches get more attacks than Jain Zar even before drugs/knives etc (hahaha).

Will Dark Lances remain trash tier? Probably.

Kabalites should have poisoned knives since 2/3 of the psychic awakening traits for kabal was melee....

I agree, it's too early to tell yet what might happen to power from pain.

It could be a thematic nod to holo or flicker fields if some units had "ghost wounds," similar to how the Marine's Helix Adept operates. Basically, the first couple unsuccessful saves a unit takes don't remove wounds or models from a unit until you get through them.

My buddy and I figured this would be a way to boost durability, without the more tried and true design space of either an invulnerable save or a malus to hit.