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Made in us
Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers




So I got to thinking about rambo laying pit traps to catch guys, and thought wouldn't Catachan do that? and then I thought, wouldn't most snipers place claymores or mines around their rear to dissuade sneaking up on their 6 o clock?

So what if an ability were introduced that allowed you to do some sort of rolled MWs on any unit that charges a specific unit? Say "Protective minefield - 2 CP" Your unit places a minefield around it rather than shooting that turn, any enemy unit that comes within 3" of your unit this turn will receive D3/6 MWs?

I feel like Vehicles could do this to, and for 1 CP they fire their auto launchers on "delayed charge" or something. I just think that there should be a risk to being close charged (less than 3" charge).

Any interest as an idea?
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





In My Lab

Because melee needs to be worse, right?

As a specific unit ability, or as a purchasable "fortification", sure. Balance as appropriate.
As a universal, no thanks.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight





Fredericksburg, VA

Catachan already has a stratagem to do this, its in the AM Codex. 1CP for a 4+ chance to cause D3 MW on a unit that finishes a charge within 1" of a CATACHAN unit in cover. Not great, but it is there.
   
Made in us
Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers




 JNAProductions wrote:
Because melee needs to be worse, right?

As a specific unit ability, or as a purchasable "fortification", sure. Balance as appropriate.
As a universal, no thanks.


Honest question: do you think Melee is "bad" in this edition? Because I play Custodes, and everything I see is currently jaw dropping in it's melee power. Sure there are powerful shooty units, there always will be. But the new Blood Angels stuff looks scary good. I'm actually concerned about the power creep happening on the melee side. What happens when you get to an almost purely melee faction like Custodes or Orks? Do all orks become D2 weapons S6? Do Custodes start swinging base 3 damage halberds and 4 damage axes? I think 9th is shaping up to be VERY melee friendly.

For a better response to your question, I do not want melee to suffer more, I just thought it was a cool idea to be able to set anti-infantry traps.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





The Cursed Blade drukhari subfaction has basically the same strat (maybe exactly the same strat?) as Catachans. It's a decent representation of the concept. In the case of the Cursed Blade, I could see them maybe making it a bit more reliable (or possibly even lowering the CP cost to 0) due to how situational it is. My melee unit has to be standing on terrain (doable, but more dependent on my opponent's choices than my own). My opponent has to fail to shoot a very squishy unit to death, and then decide it's a good idea to charge the remnants of my melee unit with a melee unit of their own. And then, after I spend CP on the strat, there's still a significant chance that it just straight up doesn't do anything.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
Because melee needs to be worse, right?

As a specific unit ability, or as a purchasable "fortification", sure. Balance as appropriate.
As a universal, no thanks.


Honest question: do you think Melee is "bad" in this edition? Because I play Custodes, and everything I see is currently jaw dropping in it's melee power. Sure there are powerful shooty units, there always will be. But the new Blood Angels stuff looks scary good. I'm actually concerned about the power creep happening on the melee side. What happens when you get to an almost purely melee faction like Custodes or Orks? Do all orks become D2 weapons S6? Do Custodes start swinging base 3 damage halberds and 4 damage axes? I think 9th is shaping up to be VERY melee friendly.

For a better response to your question, I do not want melee to suffer more, I just thought it was a cool idea to be able to set anti-infantry traps.

My two cents: 9th edition has helped melee out a lot by making it easier to get into melee and reducing the number of screening units. However, many melee options (including most options in a given faction) still aren't "good."

Marine melee is pretty good because marine units are tanky enough to feel good about charging something on an objective and then weathering the subsequent volley of fire directed at them. Custodes melee is good for similar reasons and has the added benefit of being killy enough to shift marines in a marine-heavy meta.

But hormagaunts and genestealers? Too squishy to endure followup fire power, and also not all that killy. If either of those units charge my dark reapers, they'll do well, but they're more likely to end up charging a disposable squad of dire avengers and then get deleted for an overall loss of points. Ork boyz? Similar problem. Nobz/Meganobz? Pretty killy, but too squishy/expensive/slow to be something you see a ton of competitively.

tldr; Is melee "bad?" Right now? Yes for some armies. No for others. And many melee units feel like they need a significant redesign to catch up with the times. My howling banshees are supposed to be good at hurting marines, for instance.



ATTENTION
. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
 
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter





I feel like 9th Edition has made melee practically the be all and end all of the game.

The game is decided by early aggression and being able to push onto objectives quickly. Shooting cannot take a point in a turn, it can really only decap it [make it so nobody is holding it]. Melee is now your bread and butter, and shooting supports it, which is very backwards for what it should be.

Putting back overwatch or something like wouldn't fix it though. Overwatch was bad, it slowed down the game and achieved nothing when you fired it.


Fixing the game It would require re-evaluating how the game is scored and what is incentivized.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/23 09:55:42


Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

Casualties from shooting are still much superior to killings achieved by melee. Simply melee is now part of the game. At last.

Deal with that.

And to be honest heavy hitters or smash characters aside melee is still largely underwhelming.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/23 10:21:32


 
   
 
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