Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

A proposed tradeoff to avoid the 1CP surcharge on units with the Martial Legacy rule for Night Lords, Alpha Legion, Iron Warriors, and Word Bearers:

If your army includes no units with the DAEMON, NURGLE, SLAANESH, KHORNE, or TZEENTCH keywords, and no units have the CHAOS MARKS: NURGLE, SLAANESH, KHORNE, or TZEENTCH, you may ignore the 1CP detachment cost of any units with the MARTIAL LEGACY abilitie.

So you trade Obliterators, Warp Talons, Possessed and daemon engines, along with Endless Cacophony, Fury of Khorne and the like, along with cult marines, to ignore Martial Legacy. Sound fair?

That really doesn't make sense.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
That really doesn't make sense.

It's a tradeoff. And it makes sense because those Legions have been limited in what marks and God-aligned units they can use in previous editions. You can't have something for nothing, there has to be a price.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
That really doesn't make sense.

It's a tradeoff. And it makes sense because those Legions have been limited in what marks and God-aligned units they can use in previous editions. You can't have something for nothing, there has to be a price.

Isn't the price their souls? ;D

Mechanically, keeping a little CP in exchange for limiting your unit selection is probably okay. Thematically, it suggests that the undivided legions have retained more access to certain war machines than other legions. That maybe sort of makes sense for IW and WB, but not for NL (from what I know) and certainly not for AL who are scattered and frequently forced to work with the limited resources available to their own cell.

Also, WB are absolutely all about possessed and the other daemonic astartes units. So this feels like a really out of character for them.

Wyldhunt wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
That really doesn't make sense.

It's a tradeoff. And it makes sense because those Legions have been limited in what marks and God-aligned units they can use in previous editions. You can't have something for nothing, there has to be a price.

Isn't the price their souls? ;D

Mechanically, keeping a little CP in exchange for limiting your unit selection is probably okay. Thematically, it suggests that the undivided legions have retained more access to certain war machines than other legions. That maybe sort of makes sense for IW and WB, but not for NL (from what I know) and certainly not for AL who are scattered and frequently forced to work with the limited resources available to their own cell.

Also, WB are absolutely all about possessed and the other daemonic astartes units. So this feels like a really out of character for them.

I included Word Bearers for parity with the other Undivided Legions. Iron Warriors are also known to make large use of daemon engines.

Night Lords are known to associate the least with the Chaos Gods and daemons, so although they may not have larger numbers of Heresy Era units than the other Undivided Legions they would use what they had before resorting to daemonic units. They are also known to have the most stable geneseed of the Traitor Legions and the least amount of mutations, so it makes little sense for them to be running around with mutated dreadnoughts.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

I included Word Bearers for parity with the other Undivided Legions.

Sure, but you see how it's a little weird to give Word Bearers an option themed around not using their iconic units, right?

Iron Warriors are also known to make large use of daemon engines.

Your proposal definitely makes the most sense for Iron Warriors.

Night Lords are known to associate the least with the Chaos Gods and daemons, so although they may not have larger numbers of Heresy Era units than the other Undivided Legions they would use what they had before resorting to daemonic units.

So we're saying that other legions probably have similar numbers of heresy era units, but the Night Lords just kind of need access to more datasheets for mechanical reasons? I'm not sure I follow what you're saying here. Is there lore that indicates NL have more heresy units than, for instance, DG and WE? If not, it's a bit weird that you're mechanically making it so that they do have more access to heresy units for some reason.

They are also known to have the most stable geneseed of the Traitor Legions and the least amount of mutations, so it makes little sense for them to be running around with mutated dreadnoughts.

I agree with you there, but giving them heresy dreads isn't really the same as preventing them from having mutant dreads. I can appreciate wanting to expand their roster because they don't generally make use of the daemonic stuff, but it's still narratively weird. Your proposed rules convey to me the sense that Night Lords are a faction with lots of access to heresy era tanks and dreadnaughts compared to other CSM factions.

Wyldhunt wrote:
So we're saying that other legions probably have similar numbers of heresy era units, but the Night Lords just kind of need access to more datasheets for mechanical reasons? I'm not sure I follow what you're saying here. Is there lore that indicates NL have more heresy units than, for instance, DG and WE? If not, it's a bit weird that you're mechanically making it so that they do have more access to heresy units for some reason.

No, not more access to Hersey era units. Far less use of daemonic units. Night Lords are unique among the Legions in that they prefer not to use daemons and Chaos. For that reason they would use more non-daemonic vehicles and dreadnoughts. They would use the older tech just because that's what they prefer. That's what this rule represents: a warband that has used their resources to maintain their heresy-era tech instead of to procure more daemonic and Chaos derived weapons and vehicles. That's exactly what most Night Lords warbands would do.