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With the changes to it in 9th ed, is the already kinda bad Warhound even worse off now?

Of note, it gained 50 wounds, traded its 5+ degrading void shield for the new void shield (where it gets two of them) and dropped to t8 instead of t9. The guns as far as im aware only got a slight rebalancing but nothing earth shattering.

Still the same points as the old version, despite the other classes of titans getting drops.

I think its main issue is the changes to the blast rules. While it can absolutely annihilate whatever it attacks, it can only attack 2 units a turn. The remaining Twin-Las Razorbacks, Obliterators, Havocs, etc that are left can pretty easily chip down the wounds.

Also a bit miffed that it's reduced to BS3+. It's a bloody Titan and the various targeters/auspexes/radar can't boost it any further?

I have one with the Inferno Gun and Plasma and hope to give it a go again once lockdown is over.

I would say it has less to do with its damage output or its new rules and more to do with the fact that this edition is incredibly focused much more on board control for primaries and denying secondaries. Titans are not scaled at all for games in this area and even in onslaught I'd say that taking them basically gives your opponent an incredible advantage in outnumbering your forces and having greater tactical flexibility. Killiness only goes so far this edition and it's usually the CC version that can survive mid-board scrums that matter the most.

Basically, if you want to play Titans, you play Apocalypse or Titanicus unfortunately. That or you need to play a very specific narrative scenario tailored to make them relevant.

It can't do the mission

Its squishy for its points

It can't output damage vs more than 10 units is a game if it lives that long

It can't hide

it can only attack 2 units a turn.

It has been that way since i started using it in 3rd edition. the problem is that they jacked the points up to ridiculous levels and reduced it's survivability.

Back when it was 750 points in a 2,000 point list it was a stretch to fit in as a center piece unit. it didn't kill many units, but the units it targeted died quite thoroughly. the old recycling AV 12 void shield rules also hleped keep it alive, cascading critical damage rolls aside.

I have one and I have used it in 9th both before and after the new rules.

The biggest single problem it has is that the points cost is completely wrong.

I've modeled the fight, and using average expected dice values, two Knight Castellans will kill a Warhound regardless of whether the Warhound goes first or second.

As it fills approximately the same role as a pair of Castellans in a game, it's fair to say that the correct points value for the Warhound is somewhere under 1270 points (the points cost of two Castellans).

It's clearly worth more than 635 -- the cost of one Castellan.

We've been talking about doing some informal play at different points values to narrow it down, but it's probably a 1000-1200 point model with the new rules.

At that points value, it would allow you to take additional units that would let you actually play 9th edition (like, say, cheekily hold a second objective even!).

Cheers,

V

It's also problematic because it has no faction rules, stratagems or warlord traits - stuff any 'codex army' gets baked in for free.

Based on the looks of things here, you could halve the points cost of all the titans and they would probably be more correctly priced than they are now. A Warbringer at 1900 though?

Setting aside poinsts and objectives and the like, FW should have really stuck some assault cannons or something on the smaller titans like they've done with the larger ones. As it stands, I doubt they would even be fun in a "bring it down" type open play game, especially against msu.