If you could do it over again, would you not get into 40k?

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**gundam**

If you could do it over again, would you not get into 40k? Or what would you have done differently?

**gundam**

Eldarain wrote:
Probably not. If I did I'd hope I could stick to one faction.

yeah, that is my current conundrum as well. Wish I had stuck to my guns about one faction.

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ccs wrote:
No, I'd still get into 40k.
The two underlying reasons I got into this game would still be there.

1) I was already a miniature wargamer. I've always liked this stuff - wether it's ancient Romans, 15mm WWII, fantasy stuff, mecha, space ships....Space Marines.... It's building/painting models, playing with toys with your friends, and getting to do it all your life as an adult by calling it a "hobby".

2) My friend Dan would've still been annoying me by running his mouth about how he was going to completely dominate this local tourney & about how unbeatable his army (Eldar)/he was. Challenge Accepted.

Would I do anything different? Yes.

1) I'd jump in sooner than I did.
Divert some funds from whatever I was building WHFB wise at the time. My friend Bill kept trying to get me into this game he'd discovered WH40K: Rogue Trader. I was vaguely familiar it as at the time I was most heavily into WHFB & the fantasy stuff. I resisted, though I'd occasionally borrow some of another friends Squats - until near what was the closing days of RT my friend Dan's boating eventually spurred me to give him that smackdown tourney-wise. I could've been playing this game several years longer than I have been.

2) There's some FW stuff I really should've picked up over the years before it went oop on me. Not impossible to get today, just more expensive/have to deal with re-casters....
And it's not like I didn't have the funds. I was just building other things/procrastinating. Then I took a break from 40k during much of 6th, all of 7th, & when I returned some of the FW stuff was gone. :(

3) I'd pour alot more $ into GW stock.
That'd have been a very nice return these past few years....

Yeah I started buying GW stock last week and i already made back the broker fee lol

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Sarigar wrote:
100% yes. I started in 1989 and have met so many great friends through the years and have had countless hours enjoying modeling, painting, and gaming.

I wish I had not sold as many armies over the years. To continue in the hobby I'd sell armies and put the money back into a new army. Money was tighter years ago, so I don't feel I had a lot of options, but it would have been kinda cool to have more of my older collection.

yeah I have 4 armies that I built myself and 2 that I commissioned. I wish I had realized how long the hobby part takes since I would have just stuck with one army I am painting myself and the 2 commissioned armies. I commissioned detailed armies to paint like ad mech/tsons

**gundam**

Sledgehammer wrote:
I'm happy i got into 40k. I love the miniatures that I have painted, the skills I've gained, the friends I've met and the social confidence necessary to engage with strangers.

The game as of right now is terrible though. Good thing there are plenty of good games out there!

I m new with 9th but it seems the game is better now being more objective based rather than a shoot them off dice chucker

**gundam**

stroller wrote:
I've very much enjoyed it - a lot of quality time sharing my hobby with my son.

I'd do a few things differently, but nothing major.

Like What

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Karol wrote:
I would buy myself a tablet. Just like my sister did, much smarter move then buying an w40k army. To an incomperable degree.

how many units did you end up buying

**gundam**

AceXT wrote:
I'd do it all again for sure. All in all, the 40K hobby has been a huge positive for my life. If I were to give advice to my younger self, it'd probably be: learn to magnetize, gain a better analytical understanding of the rules, get those Tallarn and Elysian minis while you can, and don't get distracted by other tabletop games so much. The last point is not strictly 40K, but it is a definite hobby regret - over the years, I spent so much time and money on various other TT games, only for them to die and me learning that I'd been better off with 40K in the first place.

I have learned the value of magnetizing and thankfully, that had been irrelevant in the armies I had chosen due to the lack of weapons or design/lower price vs work required simply not worth magnetizing. But I have been using that whenever it makes sense to do so

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Tycho wrote:
If I had it to do all over again, I would skip the side ventures I took like Battletech, Vor, Chronopia, Starship Troopers and Warzone. I would tell myself to just focus on 40k, and I'd have gotten into painting in a more serious manner much sooner, but yeah, I would do 40k again if I had a second run at it.

It's not always the best game, but it's the one where you know you will have opponents, the company isn't likely to go under tomorrow (or to stay in business but drop 40k), and at times when the game is not fun for me (3rd ed, 7th ed, possibly 9th ed - still on the fence on that), it still has the best models, so I can enjoy it from that aspect, and I do enjoy the lore. So there's something to like even if I'm taking a break from the game itself.

thats true, there are so many things to fall to. I probably have enough minis to last 2 or 3 years worth of painting projects

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Marshal Loss wrote:
I'd try to be more disciplined in my purchasing & probably spend less time worrying about when something is going to come out/not let future releases dictate what armies I play

Facts, I wish i had spent more time looking into all of the armies. I got started with some that I liked but then realized there were others that I liked way better and now I havent thought much about the armies that got me started in this hobby

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AceXT wrote:
I'd do it all again for sure. All in all, the 40K hobby has been a huge positive for my life. If I were to give advice to my younger self, it'd probably be: learn to magnetize, gain a better analytical understanding of the rules, get those Tallarn and Elysian minis while you can, and don't get distracted by other tabletop games so much. The last point is not strictly 40K, but it is a definite hobby regret - over the years, I spent so much time and money on various other TT games, only for them to die and me learning that I'd been better off with 40K in the first place.

yeah I had initially gotten into a different TT game to then realize I would be the only one playing it in my area

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sierrakiloph wrote:

If I could do it all over, I'd rather be the guy everyone was looking forward to playing at the tournament because I was so fun and easy to hang out with, than be the guy people would fear to meet, because I brought a hard list and a very competitive game. I would also know who the cheaters and bullies were, and just shake their hands and congratulate them on their victories before even starting playing. In the past, I'd meet them head on and give as good as I got. Then, a few unpleasant hours later, both he and I would emerge bruised. But why spend time so poorly?

What, really, is at stake? Does anyone care if you play better with your dolls than another nerd? At most, you can win more toy soldiers at the cost of denigrating yourself. Pfft.

SK

famous last words. And true, it is better to enjoy your toy soldiers without being an ass

**gundam**

dotcomee wrote:
I played quite a bit in my early years, which was a waste of money then due to how expensive the hobby is vs how much I was making at my job. I wouldn't do it over again, unless I was still that stupid.

I bought a lot of Tyranid models at the start of 8th edition. I don't think I've ever had a worse case of buyers remorse.

At this point it's come down to morbid curiosity that keeps me following the game in 9th edition. Just seeing how they can give xenos customers as little as possible while giving the majority of their time and effort to Space Marine and Chaos customers, who they obviously value far, far more.

so would you call yourself a 40k gamer in recovery?

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Karol wrote:
ccs 794986 11018089 wrote:

Have you expanded upon this any since then?
Have you scratch built any turrets to convert your rhinos?

Define expended. I bought the PA books, two CA books and the codex. I have not bought any extra models. And I don't have any scratch to build anything out of. Plus 8th didn't make me want to spend much on the army, specialy after the first year or year and a half. I mean I could have gotten a better GK army, but it would still have been bad, and it would require me to build 6+ boxs of strikes, and I bought don't and didn't have such money, and may as well have just bought a new army, that was actualy fun to play.

I did get a box of lumineth lightlords from my aunt as a gift from my aunt. I have them still foiled up somewhere in the attic.

so have you quit or are you in the process of quitting?

**gundam**

Eldarain wrote:
Probably not. If I did I'd hope I could stick to one faction.

so will you quit 40k? or are you so vested that you are going to ride it out?

**gundam**

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Yeah.

If anything, I'd tell my younger self to not get distracted by haters into shittier, far inferior games like Infinity, Warmachine and all that crap and just stick with 40K.

I heard about Warmachine on this thread and it seems that it came and fizzled away

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BertBert wrote:
IMO the best practice is to never commit to an extent that seems unrecoverable, whether it be 40k or any other hobby. Keep purchases at a minimum, test new stuff carefully and sell off things you are not excited about anymore to fund your budget for future purchases.

I've never regretted anything hobby-related since I have adopted this conservative approach.

Pretty wise words I will start living by in my hobby life. I probably went too hard into some armies that I wish I hadn't.

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gossipmeng wrote:
If I could do it all over again I would still have gotten into 40k, but I would make significant changes.

Over the years spanning from 4th to 7th edition I bought into the following armies: Necrons, Tau, CSM, GK/IG. However, my taste changed significantly from when I started at 14 and mostly stopped playing in my mid-late twenties).

- Necrons - I chose this as my first army due to the easy of painting and lack of wargear customization since I was young and inexperienced. As a result I quickly grey bored of this army and eventually sold it off. If I could go back I would have never purchased Necrons.
- Tau - I chose this as my second army once I learned more about 40k and developed my taste. I don't really play now, however Tau would be considered my primary army which I have expanded over the years. No regrets with Tau
- CSM - this was the third army I started. My regret is that I wasted the best codex ever made (4th ed CSM) on thousand sons. I was a bit too young to fully appreciate the level of customization available to that army. Eventually I started to rebuild the army in 6th, but never finished. I don't regret starting CSM, but I wish I had gone deathguard or undivided from the start.
- GK/DKoK allies - when 6th edition was released I saw the allies matrix as the perfect opportunity to build a joint GK/DKoK (IG) army. The army looked cool and was easy to transport, but GKs being largely overplayed at the time took the charm out of the army. I'm debating on selling the army now as the DKoK figures have a resale price that only matches what I paid for them.
- Dark Eldar - when the new range was released I planned to create a hellion/jet bike list. However, I never went through with it and ended up selling the kits I bought. Luckily I pretty much sold the kits for what I paid for them.

In summary:

- I would have started with Tau as my primary army and stuck with it until now
- CSM would have been my secondary army: a split between undivided and death guard
- Looking back I think I would like to have owned a small army of SoB (as I've gotten older I see the charm in the old metal models)
- By focusing on less factions I would have had more time to put into conversions/better painting

so you dont play any more at all? sold off all of your armies?

**gundam**

DeffDred wrote:

Wolves become werewolves instead of space Vikings.

Space Wolves could have been great if they hadnt gone so wolfy. The viking angle would have been so much better

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Matt Swain wrote:
Yeah, i'd have avoided it . GW is just too greedy and IMO hostile to gamers.

OTOH i might if i looked into ways to give gw as little money as possible.

GW has to be the least customer-friendly company I have ever seen. But the feedback loops/sunk cost they set up by making plastic expensive, making people assemble it and painting, etc It is a no brainer people will have some emotional transference to plastic toys and end up getting stuck.

Given all that, 40k does have some cool aspects and some cool models but now that I know how the treat players, I stopped buying models and I now buy GW stock

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Overread wrote:
I kinda feel sorry for all those who are here on Dakka, thus I assume still engaged on some level with 40K/Warhammer - and yet say that they'd turn themselves away from it at a young age if given the option to try again.

I just think if you're not having fun why are you still doing it - there's so much more out there to engage with in a positive way, why continue to shackle yourself to something that makes you miserable when its a hobby.

but it is also nice to hear good lessons that can be useful for new people coming in

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CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
I'd definitely do 40k again. I think I'd hold back on a lot of my purchases though. I spent at least a thousand pounds on ebay picking up a nearly all metal inquisition army, including a platoon of the old inquisitorial stormtroopers and many many metal marines. That was three years ago, not long before I started to fall out of love with the hobby. I'm coming back to it, but knowing what I know now I'd hold off. And pick up one or two of the now OOP FW dreadnoughts instead for a lot less than all the money I'd ever saved up as a teenager before going to university.

If I realized how long painting takes (painting that is clean, has smooth lines, etc) I would have bought MUCH less when I got started

**gundam**

Karol wrote:
[ Not that w40k is very fun right now, but I have money stuck in to models and rules, quitting would make me just look like a fool. And it is better to be seen as unhappy, then as foolish.

looks like textbook definition of sunk cost effect. Kind of in a similar situation myself with the amount of minis I have

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Crispy78 wrote:

Honestly, any potential foolish appearance you're worried about - it really won't happen. You learn as you get older that people are generally wrapped up in their own lives and really don't think about you as much as you worry they might.

This times 10,000... a lot of good life lesson in this thread. It takes us too long to realize that most people, except for a very few, do really care at all what you do

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Crispy78 wrote:

If it's not fun, stop. You may lose out slightly if you can't sell your stuff for what it cost you - but if that is a sum of money that you can't afford to lose, then you couldn't really afford to take up Warhammer in the first place.

Also this, I have read enough times that people are continually scrapping leftover money to buy plastic toys..."Maybe save some money instead?".

I have met enough people that make bank and commission $8,000 armies...but I also met plenty of entry-level workers who spend all of their time, money on this. People can spend their money as their wish. But out of all the hobbies I have been in, This one has a healthy number of players who have destroyed their financial future to play with plastic toys.

**gundam**

AnomanderRake wrote:
Crispy78 wrote:
...It's a hobby that you do for fun. It's not a prison sentence. If it's not fun, stop. You may lose out slightly if you can't sell your stuff for what it cost you - but if that is a sum of money that you can't afford to lose, then you couldn't really afford to take up Warhammer in the first place...

You got a way to give people the time back that they feel like they wasted spending it on 40k?

if you do, don't post it. It's a trillion-dollar idea lol

I mean its one of those things that if you enjoyed it at that time was it really wasted? but if it was never truly enjoyable then why did you continue doing it? Very likely due to the sunk cost effect

**gundam**

AnomanderRake wrote:
gundam wrote:
...I mean its one of those things that if you enjoyed it at that time was it really wasted? but if it was never truly enjoyable then why did you continue doing it? Very likely due to the sunk cost effect

I think the root point here is that a lot of the people who did like 40k at one point feel that it's been yoinked out from under them. This does vary by community, but plenty of places (here on Dakka, at least one FLGS community near me) have decided that tournament-standard 9th needs to replace all of wargaming and if you don't like it you can just pike off, because 9th is an improvement over 8th (and don't even mention the horror that was 7th), or because they'd love to try homebrew content/oldhammer/other wargames but there's no point because nobody else would ever play, or because all of the screwed-up things GW does to their customer base are obviously the industry standard/best way to run a game, or because 9th is obviously the best way forward for wargaming and there's no way anyone could possibly disagree because (tournament winrate statistics). It's exhausting, frustrating, depressing, and pretty dehumanizing to be constantly told that your hobby has been objectively improved by mutating into something you dislike.

"If you're not having fun just quit!" isn't the panacea you seem to think it is, partially because of sunk-cost thinking, yes, but also because people don't want to quit wargaming, they want to play a different wargame. It's the WoW-effect where there's a huge space out there to explore but all your friends are playing the most popular one so you feel stuck playing that, or you can't find a community that plays anything else (tabletop wargames are geographically restricted in a way video games aren't). It doesn't feel like "oh, things changed, I don't like the new version of the thing so I should stop", it feels like the community has quit you and now you get to be ostracized and told it's your fault for not liking the fantastic new direction that you feel has ruined a game you liked.

You'll notice further up the page when I gave my personal response to the OP's question I didn't say "I'd tell my younger self to find a better hobby", I said "I'd tell my younger self to recognize that GW's rules are never going to improve and start doing his own earlier". I think there's still value and fun to be had out of the hobby, even if I do dislike 9th. I do, however, understand the people who think that they'd have been better off not getting emotionally invested into what's turned into a source of pain/frustration.

that's not what I was saying at all lol

I said that if he had fun then his time in the hobby wasn't wasted. But if he never had any fun, then life is too short to continue doing something that brings no joy, especially if it's just a hobby. Not sure why the whole tangent came about. 40K will never be perfect and it will always have its issues. Like the guy below said if you just focus on the stuff you like, the negatives will just be irrelevant.

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AngryAngel80 wrote:
In all honesty, from reading his, Karols, last post, I don't think any that are going to respond to him here will help him. It seems like his issues go pretty deep and being conned into buying Grey Knights is just one of a number of things. I don't think any of us can or would make him happy with the hobby or the choice or even leaving it behind. It's one of the toughest things to learn in life, but sometimes you can't help someone, even if you'd like to.

I hope things get better for him generally and in 40k more exactly but change comes from within and only really if someone wants to improve their current state. I mean when someone says that life is generally just un happy I don't think some words on the net will bring light into that dark night.

true, there seem to be more things going on than 40k. Whatever he has going on, I hope he can sort it out.

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Gadzilla666 wrote:
Yes, I would get into 40k again if I had it to do over again. Although I've had problems with every edition I've played (been playing since 3rd), I've always had fun. Nothing is perfect, and I'll continue to complain about problems I see with the game, but I don't plan to stop playing because of them.

yeah exactly, like I know its perfect but I dont plan on quitting. Granted, if the game knew such a thing as balance, I might be willing to be more vested with more armies, but I am happy sticking with the 5 I got, which might get narrowed down to 3 in a short time.

**gundam**

Eldarain wrote:
Probably not. If I did I'd hope I could stick to one faction.

how many factions did you end up and what keeps you from downgrading to one?

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gossipmeng wrote:

I haven't played in several years as I hate the direction the game is going - lack of customization in both wargear and the figures themselves (all new releases are monopose and childish). I'll probably sell half of my figures this year and just stick with building 1/350 scale warships as they interest me more.

It also doesn't help that the players at the GWs/LGS near me are just cringy, uninteresting people.

That is true, for the money, especially the bigger models should have plenty of MORE options for poses

**gundam**

Cheex wrote:
gundam wrote:
If you could do it over again, would you not get into 40k?

you can go for the meme of double negative or just say "I would get into 40k." like you did lol

Or what would you have done differently?

If I could do it all again, I'd probably split my attentions better between armies. Right now I have obscene amounts for two armies, more than I'll ever use in a single game. I wish I had more varied armies so I could change things up a bit more (or, more accurately, have more partially-completed armies).

thats fair, I do wish I hadnt gone with as many units for 3 armies I have. I should have capped my armies at 3-4k points each

**gundam**

Lance845 wrote:
I would gladly have spent every red cent on any other thing that is consistently of better quality and more consistently enjoyable.

40k is a trap. Mostly because GW makes it so. Just look at their subscription app. It's the entire GW hobby boiled down and condensed into the trap now available on your phone.

So have sold off your armies or are they collecting dust?

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Gitdakka wrote:
I would do most of it again, but i would skip out on those 3-4 finecast kits i tried. Kept buying into their lies that initial launch problems were solved. Those bastards lied to me....

finecast for the price is highway robbery

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Table wrote:
Id not get into it. Was mostly happy until the marine spam. Now Im left with a broken and barely useable army (1ksons) and no fix on the horizon.

Did you sell your army or are you waiting for a fix sometime before the end of time? BTW im a big 1ksons fan and its sad how GW trashes army to drive the cycles of different armies. I understand game changes but making armies unusable (ie. Tau, 1ksons etc) its a slap to the face to the people that spend thousands of hours and dollars buying and putting together their armies

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wuestenfux wrote:
Its a rhetoric question.
I've started at the beginning of the 3rd edition and the game was much more manageable as it is now.
It was rather easy to enter the tournament scene quickly.
Today, the game is too intricate. Newbies can hardly enter.
With my knowledge about the current edition, I wouldn't enter again and possibly would play golf.

So would you live the hobby or would you stay involved at a minimum level due to all the time and money invested into it?

**gundam**

ccs wrote:
Lance845 wrote:

40k is a trap. Mostly because GW makes it so.

Damn them for luring me into a hobby I've that I've enjoyed for 30+ years, met friends through, made a living off of, etc. Hate that sorta trap....

Lance845 wrote:
Just look at their subscription app. It's the entire GW hobby boiled down and condensed into the trap now available on your phone.

Ok, I'm looking at it. What of it? All I see is a product that I don't really have any need for. Not using it doesn't interfere with me playing this game. As such I'm content to ignore it.

I can also see by yours and other responses the hobby and casual side of gaming being a rewarding experience.

But I can see the competitive side of the hobby being both a money trap and a time sink, just like this store owner said so on FB in a competitive 40k group.

**gundam**

ZergSmasher wrote:
Honestly, if I had it to do over again, the biggest change I would make would be not to branch out into too many other factions.

Yeah thats my debate now, I bought 5 armies and completely built 4 of them. The one still in boxes will probably get sold and I am deciding between keeping 2 or 3 armies total.

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Strg Alt wrote:
I would have collected fewer factions and bought the 2nd 40K starter box. Back in the day I was too cheap for that and used SM from Space Crusade in my army.

https://youtu.be/1ERmUzs1O5E

How many factions did you end up with and how many in retrospect would have been the ideal number to get the most out of knowing your army well?

**gundam**

addnid wrote:
gundam wrote:
ZergSmasher wrote:
Honestly, if I had it to do over again, the biggest change I would make would be not to branch out into too many other factions.

Yeah thats my debate now, I bought 5 armies and completely built 4 of them. The one still in boxes will probably get sold and I am deciding between keeping 2 or 3 armies total.

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Strg Alt wrote:
I would have collected fewer factions and bought the 2nd 40K starter box. Back in the day I was too cheap for that and used SM from Space Crusade in my army.

https://youtu.be/1ERmUzs1O5E

How many factions did you end up with and how many in retrospect would have been the ideal number to get the most out of knowing your army well?

I have 5 armies, two of which are waaaay over 4000 pts (in 9th), and mu opinion is 5 is too many. If I were you I would most def sell the one still on sprues. 4 armies is enough (perhaps even 3). I would sell my dark angels (my 5th army) but I want to see the new codex first, and I want to play a few games with it before I sell the army. But I will sell it, who honestly has time to play with more than 4 armies ? (If someone has, then I want your life !! Give it to me).

Yeah 2 (maybe 3 armies) seems the most someone can manage while also living a full life out of 40k (ie. working out, full time job, family/friends, other hobbies, etc)

**gundam**

ccs wrote:

Nah, you can have all the armies you like/have room for. The trick is that you just don't focus on ALL of them at the same time. Just two or three. Then you rotate what you're using &/or have on the work bench.

yeah thats true, I dont have to sell the armies so that's what I am leaning for. Right now there are a few good deals on high quality painted armies that are magnetized on ebay so that's how I have bought my last 3 armies. I will just keep them in boxes until the time is right.

**gundam**

ccs wrote:
addnid wrote:

Thing is, if you want to play at a decent level, you can't rotate much because it takes time to master an army and learn to use all its tricks (if you have a lot of army points, painted and based, to choose from that is).

Sure you can. Current 40k doesn't have a very steep learning curve. And the more experience you have in playing games (GW or otherwise), the lower & lower it gets.

The key is at a decent level, sure you can get the mechanics and overall feel but the tricks are what make the armies unique. If you live a full life outside of 40k, I dont think it is too realistic to be able to know how to play a lot of armies at a decent level. Even some of the people that stream and do it often can't keep up with stuff and are reminded in chat of the armies tricks.

**gundam**

ccs wrote:
gundam wrote:
ccs wrote:
addnid wrote:

Thing is, if you want to play at a decent level, you can't rotate much because it takes time to master an army and learn to use all its tricks (if you have a lot of army points, painted and based, to choose from that is).

Sure you can. Current 40k doesn't have a very steep learning curve. And the more experience you have in playing games (GW or otherwise), the lower & lower it gets.

The key is at a decent level, sure you can get the mechanics and overall feel but the tricks are what make the armies unique. If you live a full life outside of 40k, I dont think it is too realistic to be able to know how to play a lot of armies at a decent level. Even some of the people that stream and do it often can't keep up with stuff and are reminded in chat of the armies tricks.

So how long does it take you to learn to play an army well?
How long do you think it takes others?
Exactly what skills do you think go into dong this?
Do you think that when an edition changes those skills learned reset to zero?

Of course your skills dont reset to zero in an edition lol There is no need to fictitious.

Like I mentioned in my comment, it is fairly easy to see that it is not easy to maintain the same skill level when Player A is using 5+ armies as someone like Player B uses only 2 armies, with one of the two being an army in Player's A rotation.

Which is why I mentioned the example of highly placing tournament streamers that dont seem being able to use an army to its full extent due to them rotating many armies.

JidmahMade mentioned the same example.

We've also had a discussion in our group where some of the veterans with 5+ armies were talking about not being able to match the skill level of those players with only one or two armies since it isn't possible to learn that many armies inside out in a game that is constantly changing due to CA, campaign books, codex releases and rebalancing.

The same thing can be observed when you see people like the guys from TTS constantly switching armies for every battle report - they just aren't that firm on their armies' rules, their tactics or when to use what.

There is a huge difference between being able to successfully push the models up the field and shoot stuff and actually using an army to full effect.

I imagine there is also a difference between running are fairly straight forward army like space marines or craftworld eldar and one with many interlocking mechanics like admech, guard or tau.

I mean its fairly obvious to me and other people. Sure it is possible to casually play 5+ armies at once, but you won't be able to use 5+ armies at once to their full capabilities.

**gundam**

ccs wrote:
gundam wrote:

ccs wrote:
So how long does it take you to learn to play an army well?
How long do you think it takes others?
Exactly what skills do you think go into dong this?
Do you think that when an edition changes those skills learned reset to zero?

Of course your skills don't reset to zero in an edition lol There is no need to fictitious.

Ok, that's one of my questions {the easiest} answered. I await your insights on the other three.

You will be waiting since those questions are completely irrelevant to the discussion of playing 5+ armies to their full extent at once.

Instead of using personal experience as a way to discuss something (i.e. Sample size of one), Other people and I are using used tournament players and streamers as examples that it is not possible to play 5+ armies well enough at once in this thread (i.e. sample size of more than 1) .

It is something along the lines along the lines of using the scientific method. It helps discussions keep on point without going into irrelevant tangents. You should look it up

**gundam**

Tyranid Horde wrote:
I'd still get into 40k, no questions asked.

If I was starting again though, I probably wouldn't start with Tyranids, as I think starting with something other than organic shapes would have improved my painting faster compared to the years of prime, basecoat, wash and play.

That and picking up way too many armies. These days I'm happy with my Nids, Eldar and Marines, but I only play Eldar.

how many armies did you end up with when you had the most? And if you had the chance to sell Nids and Marines and recover all of your costs would you do it and keep only Nids?

**gundam**

ccs wrote:
gundam wrote:
ccs wrote:
gundam wrote:

ccs wrote:
So how long does it take you to learn to play an army well?
How long do you think it takes others?
Exactly what skills do you think go into dong this?
Do you think that when an edition changes those skills learned reset to zero?

Of course your skills don't reset to zero in an edition lol There is no need to fictitious.

Ok, that's one of my questions {the easiest} answered. I await your insights on the other three.

You will be waiting since those questions are completely irrelevant to the discussion of playing 5+ armies to their full extent at once.

Instead of using personal experience as a way to discuss something (i.e. Sample size of one), Other people and I are using used tournament players and streamers as examples that it is not possible to play 5+ armies well enough at once in this thread (i.e. sample size of more than 1) .

It is something along the lines along the lines of using the scientific method. It helps discussions keep on point without going into irrelevant tangents. You should look it up

So you're saying that you don't know how long it takes YOU (personally) to learn to play an army to whatever your standard of decently is?
Or are you saying you won't tell me?

Obviously you've no idea how long it takes me/others.

I'd think that the skills required to play one, maybe two, armies well would be quite relevant in a discussion about being able to do so with multiples. I simply want to know what you think those skills are since you can apparently spot when they're lacking.

Obviously this is going over your head. For the third time, as mentioned before, people that play this game on a highly consistent basis at a high competitive level (i.e. tournament players, streamers, etc) struggle to play 5+ armies to their full extent on stream since they don't know all of the tricks and cant keep up with the changes, and are reminded of things, stratagems, during streams.

I am not saying how long it takes me to learn an army because it is not relatable to how long it takes to someone else because we all have different priorities, hobby time etc. Me saying it should take X time for someone to learn an army because it takes me Y time would be extremely foolish. And you thinking it is an applicable way to make a point is very foolish. Apples and Oranges comparisons.

How does me personally knowing( and then guessing for other people) how long it takes to play an army have to do ANYTHING with playing 5+ armies to their full extent when we can see in video it is not really possible already??

Jesus dude... it was both an irrelevant and a bad question... let it go... it's clear you can't have productive discussion without trying to make irrelevant personal points... I suggest you watch a beginner 5min YT video on debating if you dont want to keep coming across as a fool in internet

**gundam**

amanita wrote:

If I had to change anything I guess I wished we all realized a bit sooner that GW was more interested in lateral changes for their financial interests than actually creating a really good game. It became obvious enough by mid 5th ed. So we would have veered off earlier, but not dramatically.

That became apparent to me 4 months, its a shame because this could be a really good balanced game. By veered off, you mean leave 40k for other war-games? Or home-brew games?

I dont think Homebrew is something im interested in since I would be looking forward to playing with more people rather than the same group.

**gundam**

Eldarsif wrote:
To OP: No, I would not get into 40k again.

Will you leave the hobby and sell the armies or let it slowly fade away and collect dust?

**gundam**

Just Tony wrote:
BaconCatBug wrote:
gundam wrote:
Eldarsif wrote:
To OP: No, I would not get into 40k again.

Will you leave the hobby and sell the armies or let it slowly fade away and collect dust?
Will you stop posting this message to everyone who wouldn't start 40k again? NGL, being a GW shill isn't a good look. They are a £3b company, they don't need a random guy on the internet to defend their poor business practices.

Some people seem borderline offended. "How DARE you stop enjoying something I still enjoy?!?!?!?!"

lmao, exactly... who hurt you and why are you so salty? I genuinely wanted to know if they dont enjoy 40k as much or wish if they hadn't gone into it if they were going to leave all together or why they were still hanging around the community, like someone else posted here

Automatically Appended Next Post:

AnomanderRake wrote:
Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:
...So I am left wondering why someone that doesn't play and has no interest in playing (at least current 40k) would have much interest in staying current with 40k news and discussion...

Perhaps people who liked 40k pre-8th/9th don't equate "40k discussion" to "may not complain about GW's rules writing". You'll notice this isn't the "9e is the greatest wargame ever discussion" forum, this is the 40k general discussion forum. The hobby is more things than playing tournament-standard 9th.

well put, GW and the competitive side of the game have a lot of faults, but there are plenty of positives in other parts of the hobby

Automatically Appended Next Post:

waefre_1 wrote:
Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:
...obsessive types (partly guilty myself) that could have these kinds of issues either.

I don't think we even need to get into obsessiveness. 40k demands significant investments of money, time, money, effort, time, money, and money to do anything more than casual play (barring those lucky enough to inherit someone else's army, or are able to get one for pennies on the dollar), and if someone decided that they'd had enough it may end up being quite difficult to recoup any of that investment. That's a recipe for some grade-A Sunk Cost issues.

Given the money, time, money, effort, time, money, formula you posted, I myself put MORE emphasis on the time part, given the hobby side of things.

I do agree that the it is a recipe for some grade-A Sunk Cost issues that I dont see in any other hobbies I have encountered in my life, so thats why I do see how many people who are unhappy with this, just cant seem to let it go.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tyel wrote:
I don't regret getting into 40k.

My regret is indecisiveness on faction. Every six months there's this urge to start a new army. Which usually entails buying 1-3 kits (or more depending on discounts etc), painting up a couple before thinking "nah, move on". I'd almost certainly have done better bulking out my main armies rather than over the last 5-6 years getting a few hundred points of say Marines, Guard, CSM, Ad Mech, Tyranids, Harlequins, some Tzeentch Daemons I took a fancy too in about 2014 etc etc.

Like right now I'd love to start Death Guard - but would I ever get to 2kish points? More likely I'd paint up my 7 Plague Marines and that would be enough (sorry 30 Poxwalkers or whatever I'd get with them). I do enjoy painting - but in the long run having these penny sized forces feels a bit like a waste, when I could be rounding out forces which are actually at the 2k level and will see play.

(If this sounds like whale behaviour it probably is. I think the Start Collecting sets have been a gold mine for GW and would worry their Combat Patrol kits are getting a bit expensive even if they may offer a comparable saving.)

so given the chance to do it over, how many factions do you think would have been the best number for you?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Da Boss wrote:
I guess I've just never really had a problem with negative posts or people saying stuff I disagreed with on any kind of forum I am on.

It really doesn't bother me or impact my experience at all. I like to read all the different perspectives. The only people I don't like are the ones who are condescending or who only post to big up their ego, not actually engaging in discussion.

Given Dakka has an ignore function, it should be pretty easy to curate your experience I would say.

Most of the people posting here have said they do not regret playing 40K even if they did stop at some point. There are a couple of people who are a bit more bitter about it, but they are the vast minority.

I have been interested in Warhammer since I was a little kid. I am still interested in it, just not in the game at the moment. I collect and paint the minis and read the fiction and play video games. I would actually quite like it if I could get back into the game and play it, so I keep an eye on it to see how things are going.

I don't think that is weird at all.

Yeah I dont get why some people took a personal offense to it. Most people have been posting they would still get into it but they might have done some things differently. And I found those examples pretty interesting, which would also be interesting for new people coming in.

**gundam**

Just Tony wrote:
Overread wrote:
Just Tony wrote:
BaconCatBug wrote:
gundam wrote:
Eldarsif wrote:
To OP: No, I would not get into 40k again.

Will you leave the hobby and sell the armies or let it slowly fade away and collect dust?
Will you stop posting this message to everyone who wouldn't start 40k again? NGL, being a GW shill isn't a good look. They are a £3b company, they don't need a random guy on the internet to defend their poor business practices.

Some people seem borderline offended. "How DARE you stop enjoying something I still enjoy?!?!?!?!"

I think others show confusion at why people who dislike something are still interacting with the community of that thing.

Which can be surprising to some since in the physical world if you get tired of 40K or MTG or anything else you tend to stop turning up to the hobby night and store. Ergo you drift away and spend your time elsewhere even if you're still friends with the group. You just socialise with them outside of club nights if at all. Meanwhile online you keep socialising essentially in the "hobby club" which is the hobby forum. This confuses some because they wonder why you're on a GW site in a GW section of that site talking about GW stuff so often when you're "not into it " any more.

Personally I think there's a healthy way to retain a connection to a social group whilst leaving a hobby and there's an unhealthy point and its very easy to drift from the former to the latter without realising. Sadly what can happen is you can end up with a group making the migration and that develops a "toxic community".

For me personally it's because I play an older edition, am still invested in the lore (what's left of it), and hopefully am treated to new models that will port into 3rd Ed. easily enough. Should I NOT be part of discussions on here because I don't play current? Hell, there were a few discussions where people used false claims about my preferred edition to defend current garbage rules existing. If I wasn't here those false claims would have laid unopposed.

gundam wrote:
Just Tony wrote:
BaconCatBug wrote:
gundam wrote:
Eldarsif wrote:
To OP: No, I would not get into 40k again.

Will you leave the hobby and sell the armies or let it slowly fade away and collect dust?
Will you stop posting this message to everyone who wouldn't start 40k again? NGL, being a GW shill isn't a good look. They are a £3b company, they don't need a random guy on the internet to defend their poor business practices.

Some people seem borderline offended. "How DARE you stop enjoying something I still enjoy?!?!?!?!"

lmao, exactly... who hurt you and why are you so salty? I genuinely wanted to know if they dont enjoy 40k as much or wish if they hadn't gone into it if they were going to leave all together or why they were still hanging around the community, like someone else posted here

…

You DO know I was calling out YOUR behavior in that instance and not BCB's, right? Just because he doesn't latch compulsively onto the GW teat for all current releases doesn't mean he should be disallowed from discussion, either unwillingly or by rather garbage poster pressure such as what you passive aggressively did.

ok... but DO you know YOUR point makes no sense right? At what point did I say he should be "disallowed from discussion"? I didnt but YOU did. At what point did I personally addressed him? at no point... but BCB called me a GW shill (I always said the hobby has the positives while it has negatives) and you mentioning "garbage poster pressure".... I am genuinely asking if people are letting the hobby fade away but I found it interesting they still hang out at a 40k hobby... You people should learn that you can still address a topic while remaining on topic. When you start addressing a person (instead of the topic) it is just an indication of lack of maturity , lack of knowledge of the topic, lack of critical thinking skills or a combination of all.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lance845 wrote:
This is a discussion board. I don't have to make music or play it on the regular to have a discussion about it. Participation in the community does not require anyone to be invested in the game. People post on this forum because they have something to say about the topic. It doesn't have to be anything more or anything less then that.

good points

Automatically Appended Next Post:

grrrfranky wrote:
Knowing what I know now, I don't think I'd get into 40k, I'd pick something else. That is with the benefit of hindsight though, so take that as you will.
I've moved on to other games and have a much happier gaming experience for it. Almost all my armies have been sold off, just got my space wolves still, just in case. I keep an eye on 40k, because I played it for a long time, and I like the idea of playing it, but it's not the game for me anymore.

So since you kept SW, what changes would make you comeback to be more active? And will you delve into other armies or just stick with SW?

What were some of the things that attracted and what drove you away from the hobby? Was the sunkcost effect of money +hobby time hard when you sold your armies?