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This came up in the necron tactics thread. The doomstalker uses the high power profile when firing overwatch, but the bearer can only make attacks with this profile if it remained stationary during its previous movement phase. Can it fire overwatch when it didnt remain stationary during its previous movement phase ? Some say yes, i say no.

Sentinel Construct
Each time an enemy unit declares a charge against a friendly <DYNASTY> or DYNASTIC AGENT unit within 6" of this model, unless this model is within Engagement Range of any enemy models, this model can fire Overwatch at the charging unit as if it were also a target of that charge (this is in addition to any other units that are firing Overwatch). Each time this model fires Overwatch, it makes attacks with its doomsday blaster using the high power profile.

Doomsday Blaster (High Power)
The bearer can only make attacks with this profile if it Remained Stationary during its previous Movement phase.

To my understanding, you'd be using the high powered profile.

The reason being that 40k states that the more specific a rule is, the high its precedence. In this case the High Profile states it can only be used in X situation, but the other rule specifics that it makes it's attacks in this specific instance regardless. In a more detailed break down: You get access to the High Powered profile via the other special rule checking for movement, but said high powered profile always exists. This other special rule skips the movement check, and simply grants you access to the profile without engaging the 'check for movement' portion of the other special rule.

I subscribe to the concept of "Break no rules".

You have rule A saying "Each time this model fires Overwatch, it makes attacks with its doomsday blaster using the high power profile." and rule B saying "The bearer can only make attacks with this profile if it Remained Stationary during its previous Movement phase."

You need to follow both rules. If you didn't Remain Stationary in your previous movement phase, you're breaking rule B when you invoke rule A. The only way to break no rules is to not fire.

Rule A would need to say "and also disregard rule B" in order to move and fire Overwatch with it, imo.

Similar to morganfreeman's line of reasoning, I believe it always fires Overwatch on high power profile regardless of whether it moved or not. The Sentinel Construct rules gives you permission when it tells you "each time." The rule is specifically telling you to do something (fire it on high power when firing Overwatch). There is otherwise no reason to write "each time."

If the overwatch was intended to fire the low profile unless you'd not moved the previous turn it would simply say that the Doomstalker is able to fire its main weapon - at which point you'd simply use the weapon profile.

As it stands it can only fire the high power version, which means if the unit did move in the previous turn, the overwatch ability becomes unable to work. Which would likely defeat the purpose of the ability.



I get what Bacon Cat means, but at the same time that's not always how GW writes their rules; they are much more likely to write rules that override previous rules. Granted we are more used to seeing this when its one unit from a codex against a core rule or a unit from a different codex; its rarer that it happens on the same unit profile.

I agree that you can argue that standpoint from a valid position, I just don't think that it is valid.

It's very much an issue that should be addressed with errata, but will most likely get an FAQ.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
I subscribe to the concept of "Break no rules".

You have rule A saying "Each time this model fires Overwatch, it makes attacks with its doomsday blaster using the high power profile." and rule B saying "The bearer can only make attacks with this profile if it Remained Stationary during its previous Movement phase."

You need to follow both rules. If you didn't Remain Stationary in your previous movement phase, you're breaking rule B when you invoke rule A. The only way to break no rules is to not fire.

Rule A would need to say "and also disregard rule B" in order to move and fire Overwatch with it, imo.

Agreed. Makes sense.

RAW it can't fire overwatch unless it Remained Stationary.
a - Each time this model fires Overwatch, it makes attacks with its doomsday blaster using the high power profile.
b - The bearer can only make attacks with this profile if it Remained Stationary during its previous Movement phase.

You can only fire OW with the high power profile (the rule is an instruction, not an option - there is no "can"), and you can only fire with the high power profile if you Remained Stationary (there is no "regardless" in there). If you did not Remain Stationary you cannot fire the high power profile, meaning you cannot fire overwatch.

I very much suspect that RAI it's intended to override b in overwatch

Edit - just had a discussion with someone and I think it's actually supposed to work RAW as stated above. It's a Sentinel. It stops (Remains Stationary) and is then able to provide OW cover for other units.

The doomstalker can only fire overwatch if it remained stationary in its previous movement phase, as it has to use the high power profile. You are given as much permission to ignore that part of the weapon profile as you are to ignore that it is a blast weapon, i.e., none.

A lot of people read the codex and saw what they wanted to see, I did too at first. It's only when you start adding the different rules together you realize there are limitations. Similarly the revenge of the doomstalker stratagem, which also allows you to shoot during your opponent's turn, requires you to check the status of the doomstalker during its previous movement phase.

Yes the doomstalker cannot fire overwatch unless it remained stationary. It must use one profile and if that profile cannot legally fire then it can't fire overwatch.

Deleted.

I think that the important part is ... "this model can fire Overwatch at the charging unit as if it were also a target of that charge".

There is no mention of any circumstances changing or special dispensation other than as if it were also part of the unit / set of units being charged.

So, yeah, TANSTAAFL. (there ain't no such thing as a free lunch).