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I've been out of the game for a bit and need to get a bit used to the 4th Ed. rules.  I've been looking through the boards and getting an idea of what works and what doesn't (like yakface's great Carnifex article).  Here's a list I came up with that I need input on effectiveness.

HQ:
Hive Tyrant (+BS, +S, VC, ScyTal, Psychic Scream) - 155
3x Tyrant Guard- 135

ELITES
4x Tyranid Warriors (Leaping, +I, +Sv, ScyTal, Rending Claws) - 152

TROOPS
20x Spinogaunts - 100
20x Spinogaunts - 100
15x Hormagaunt (+I) - 165
15x Hormagaunt (+I) - 165
15x Hormagaunt (+I) - 165
10x Genestealers (+Sv) - 200

HS
2x Gunfex - 326

Total points - 1498

I suspect that unit of genestealers will get shredded up.  Should I try to work in some more Synapse?  I want to avoid playing a Godzilla list, and generally prefer having a swarming army.  I doubt I'll play with Escalation much, if that would otherwise be an issue.  Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

IMO, you don't need 3x tyrant guard at 1500 points. I'd drop one. Also, one psychic scream won't do much good... it is kind of an all or nothing psychic power. Instead, go with Shadow in the Warp, to help fend off those librarians. Scytals not so good on a walking tyrant, so go with TL devourers + VC instead.

You're exactly right about the genestealers. With only one unit of them, they jump to the top of the priority list and will probably never see combat, or if they do, won't be strong enough to do much damage. You could 20 more hormagaunts, or 40 more spinegaunts with these points.

The hormagaunts IMO are another "all or nothing" deal. If you're going to give them an upgrade, go all out with +1 I, +1 WS, and +1 St. +1 I alone won't make a huge difference, so I'd drop it and go for more numbers.

Warriors are fine, as are the gunfexes
You do lack synapse though. This list will have lots of broods and only two synapse providers.. not to mention that the hormagaunts will quickly outrun both of those synapse sources. Have you considered trying to fit a flying tyrant into the list? You could fit one in just by dropping one brood of hormagaunts, or the genestealers. The flying tyrant fills a role that no other tyranid can: fast close combat monster that is hard to kill, and it provides fast synapse that the hormagaunts can use and not outrun.

Thanks for the advice so far.  I'm gonna go look at some fixes in a bit.

As a somewhat nonsequitor question:: how often are Librarians run in SM armies nowadays?

Considering they come with psychic hoods and force weapons for free now, and can buy some great psychic powers for cheap, they are pretty darn common.

Gabe has pretty much said it. Part of me says you could almost be better off with no Tyrant Guard at all, and run Zoanthropes instead. Lictors are expensive, but with all the hormagaunts in your list might be worthwhile. Alternatively, you could run scuttlers in the place of the hormies - though they have fewer attacks and get rapid fired, they start on the table and you thus won't have to worry about Escalation with them. With WON you've got a platoon of bullet absorbers that can tie up an enemy unit then come back to dispute the table quarter after they die. The gunfexes are pretty much essential since melee nids can't handle mobile units very well.

Wow, I don't know how I mucked up the math on that first list (it didn't come out to 1500 at all). 

Anyhow, here's a slight revamp:
HQ:
Hive Tyrant (+BS, +S, VC, TL Devourer, Shadow in the Warp) - 155
2x Tyrant Guard- 135

Hive Tyrant (+S, Wings, 2x ScyTal, Toxic Miasma, Fleshhooks) - 153

ELITES
4x Tyranid Warriors (Leaping, +I, +Sv, ScyTal, Rending Claws) - 152

TROOPS
20x Spinogaunts - 100
20x Spinogaunts - 100
14x Hormagaunt  - 140
14x Hormagaunt  - 140
14x Hormagaunt  - 140

HS
2x Gunfex - 326

Total points - 1500
Models - 92

How's it look now? 

I like your Tyrant, 2 guard is pretty decen normally but in this case not so much.

The reason for this is you are paying 90pts for nothing but 4 ablative wounds (its 90pts for 2 guard btw)
Let's look at what 90pts buys you, Tyrant with 2*tl devs.... iirc this costs 91pts!
1pt more for a tyrant with 12 twin linked s4 shots with living ammo!

You only start to consider guard once you have taken 2 tyrants...in most lists atleast, yours is one of those.

I know you don't want a Zilla list but in this case I don't see why you wouldnt take another tyrant rather than 2 guard especially since you are using a swarm list that needs synapse.

Hmm, seems your new list actually has a 2nd tyrant.....
So yea, keep the guard

You might want toxin sacs and implant attack for the winged tyrant, makes it an absolute Independent character killer.

HQ is good, Warriors are fine, might want to split those spinegaunts into 4 broods, also you could consider scuttlers..

What you need to ask yourself is "what is going to kill the enemy"

Spines don't kill, they hold the enemy in place...so the quistion is why not get there 1 turn faster with scuttlers
Un-upgraded horms don't kill, init5 ws5 horms do (S4 is not so important for its cost), yours are not upgraded, so they are again just tie up units (why not use cheaper scuttling spines?)

You have alot of tie up troops but nothing of any real power coming in to finnish the enemy...

Imo if you want kill the enemy with troops you should be using 12pts ws5 init5 horms and gargoyles, they can kill anything.
Spines and un-upgraded horms are tie up units.

If you had more CC things coming in from the rear like ravaners or stealers then the tie up units would be better.

Do you like stealers?
scuttling spines + stealers are a good combo
upgraded horms + gargoyles also work

3*1 ravaners with rending are a very popular choice, one I personally swear by!

Some things for you to think about.

HQ:
Hive Tyrant (+BS, +S, VC, TL Devourer, Shadow in the Warp) - 159
2x Tyrant Guard- 90

Hive Tyrant (+S, Wings, 2x ScyTal, Toxic Miasma, Implant Attack) - 161

ELITES
4x Tyranid Warriors (Leaping, +I, +Sv, ScyTal, Rending Claws) - 152

TROOPS
11x Spinogaunts - 55
10x Spinogaunts - 50
14x Hormagaunt (+I, +WS) - 168
14x Hormagaunt (+I, +WS) - 168
14x Hormagaunt (+I, +WS) - 168

HS
2x Gunfex - 326

Total points - 1497
Models - 73

This look potentially better?
I'm noticing that I've significantly dropped in numbers.  Mostly owing to adding that second tyrant.  Do you guys think the model count is getting too low for this type of Nid list?

Heya,

I have been lurking around here forever, reading bug strats, etc.  I finally got my codex and some basic models, and I was trying to figure out how to build my Hormagaunts.  I was going to go +1 Init and +1 Str, but then I saw this:

14x Hormagaunt (+I, +WS) - 168

Isn't this illegal?  Pg. 32 says "The same biomorph cannot be taken more than once on any one Tyranid creature."  So isn't taking Adrenal Glands twice (albeit for different effects) a no-no?

I figure hit first and hit hard, but hit better might be good too. 

Any insight is appreciated.

Thanks,

Chris

Jagdcarcajou:

Adrenal Glands are listed seperately in the codex entry. In addition in the inagurual battle report by Phil Kelly (the codex author) he took both Adrenal Gland upgrades on his Carnifex.


That's enough justification for most players to go ahead and do it and not worry about an argument. I haven't seen anyone complain about it in real life yet.

A-ha!

Thanks Yak, I appreciate the clarification.

So, what is the current consensus on Hormies?  Tool them up or not?  Seems to me they are best kitted out with I, WS, and S in order to be most effective against MEQs once they actually make contact, but at 14 points per model,  I am wondering about quality vs. quantity.  I remember an old joke saying "two of crap is still crap".

Thanks again,

Chris

They math out fairly well with the upgrades. Sans upgrades suggest you anticipate a barrel full of AP shooting on the way in, and in that case escalation-proof Gaunts do a better job of getting bodies on the table.

Should I drop the walking Tyrant to bulk up my numbers? (I'm thinking I could potentially use the ~250 points freed up from there to get more hormies and possibly those raveners).

Or should I keep it and try to rearrange some points? I'm having some trouble deciding where to cut points from. I'd rather have a more gaunt-heavy list (partly due to aesthetic preferences and partly due to having a *donkey*-load of models), thoough at this point, I suppose I'm flexible enough on that issue.

And again, thanks so far for the advice.