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Continued Sonic Mini 4k problems.. also a video about it..  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Yeah, small kids make finding the quiet to record limited. So the repair video is waiting for me to have that chance. This one is full on reverb, so apologies.

Things are not going well. Pretty much 1KG of Resin for failure after failure. But recently I noted that rapid repeat printing, even after cleaning and resetting between prints, causes some random stuff to go on in the way of print quality.

I still have models ripping lose from the supports, even at a lift speed of 35mm/m. Even with minimal cross section.

Cure times were calibrated repeatedly with similar enough results to be confident of my cure times.

Even worse, these print failures with hanging bits has managed to stab the hell out of my FEP.

I don't know what is going on. So, here is a video about a sonic mini 4k and failure.

There just isn't any consistency. Part weight doesn't really seem to be what is causing it, nor does cross section as the half print of the solid generator fan part has a huge cross section and it only warped on the bottom (all my square prints sag horribly on the bottom- where they attach to the plate).

The printer can print models fairly reliably, with maybe a 75% failure rate. But technical parts are 90%+ failure.

The latest series was a line of three cities of death tiles, angled via the arc-tan method to reduce lines. They have less cross section than the solid fan print and yet they are having huge issues. Even worse from print to print on the same files with same settings there are different results showing "something" is changing between prints.

I have a feeling there is a kind of variability in the exposure/unreliable, especially if you print back to back. I've noticed the machine does get warm to the touch so it might be the heat effecting the lamp output.

I will be honest, I regret buying this printer.




Printed another calibration plate and then printed another one.. and it worked? I stopped it for photo or it would have likely worked. There was over an hour between 1-4 and number 5. So thermal issue with the lamp causing variable output? What else could go wrong with this damned thing..

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Bzgh7dEherZQD8eFnxa1qjauZ8qVGAWB/view?usp=sharing

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/01/28 19:37:05


Consummate 8th Edition Hater.  
   
Made in us
Courageous Questing Knight





Texas

Great you took the time to record what is happening. While I do not have a Phrozen 4k, my Mars works similarly, while taking longer to expose each layer.

What you are describing and showing, especially with your delamination and inconsistencies in print samples, coupled with the parts jabbing into your FEP makes me think this is an issue with the Z axis on your machine that is clearly not working correctly or consistently. This could be the fault of the plastic thread couplers, but I personally think it is deeper, as in a machine execution fault and nothing you can do will correct it.

I so feel for you, as what a terrible experience when you buy an expensive machine you would think the engineering and subsequent quality control standards would create a machine that does exactly what it was designed to do.

Frankly, I would return for a new one, if possible, or if you can get your money back and go with another machine. I really hate to be a pessimist, but I just do not think that machine works correctly from a number of factors affecting the Z axis movement.

My Novella Collection is available on Amazon - Action/Fantasy/Sci-Fi - https://www.amazon.com/Three-Roads-Dreamt-Michael-Leonard/dp/1505716993/

 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





 MDSW wrote:
Great you took the time to record what is happening. While I do not have a Phrozen 4k, my Mars works similarly, while taking longer to expose each layer.

What you are describing and showing, especially with your delamination and inconsistencies in print samples, coupled with the parts jabbing into your FEP makes me think this is an issue with the Z axis on your machine that is clearly not working correctly or consistently. This could be the fault of the plastic thread couplers, but I personally think it is deeper, as in a machine execution fault and nothing you can do will correct it.

I so feel for you, as what a terrible experience when you buy an expensive machine you would think the engineering and subsequent quality control standards would create a machine that does exactly what it was designed to do.

Frankly, I would return for a new one, if possible, or if you can get your money back and go with another machine. I really hate to be a pessimist, but I just do not think that machine works correctly from a number of factors

affecting the Z axis movement.


I am running some more prints with the anycubic. Same test file, same settings. Oddly enough the translucent anycubic green cures in the same time as the grey abs. yeah. Ran a test strip with it today. was surprised...
So it is cranking out the print right now. The idea being that maybe the bottle of ABS grey Resin was bad. I've heard of that happening from time to time, but that's a lot of money to waste if you get a bad resin bottle.

That anycubic trans green though makes me have to open my windows.. it stinks so bad. I hate using it. But it makes great translucent prints, like tokens for 40k (oldhammer in my case).



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 MDSW wrote:
Great you took the time to record what is happening. While I do not have a Phrozen 4k, my Mars works similarly, while taking longer to expose each layer.

What you are describing and showing, especially with your delamination and inconsistencies in print samples, coupled with the parts jabbing into your FEP makes me think this is an issue with the Z axis on your machine that is clearly not working correctly or consistently. This could be the fault of the plastic thread couplers, but I personally think it is deeper, as in a machine execution fault and nothing you can do will correct it.

I so feel for you, as what a terrible experience when you buy an expensive machine you would think the engineering and subsequent quality control standards would create a machine that does exactly what it was designed to do.

Frankly, I would return for a new one, if possible, or if you can get your money back and go with another machine. I really hate to be a pessimist, but I just do not think that machine works correctly from a number of factors affecting the Z axis movement.


Thought about your unreliable Z. I got another test done with the smelly trans green... I thought that the lines initially in large flat objects were as a result of aliasing pixel errors. I no longer thing that. Look here. Three identical angles in play. Note how each piece has DIFFERENT LINES.

There is something else going on here. I think the Resin bottle was BAD. But green stinky still shows some of the errors.

pic dump











Annnd reddit killed my post.. really. Trying to get HELP and I get an EFF U.

One more update for the night. Was sitting playing with my movement ruler. It was one of the last things I printed before the Z-axis jammed back on the 9th. I noticed something was odd about it. Note the regular alias stepping on the print... But right here, at the end, the lines. The same lines that are on the more recent prints I posted earlier today. Well, that narrow end was on the "end" of the print, farthest from the build plate. That means that the Z-axis rod was at it's limit. The 6" ruler tilted at an angle pretty much maxes out the printer. The issue appeared on the Z-axis at extreme Z. Now it's there all the time. It is my intention to print another one. So it will be interesting to see how it turns out. I am betting on significant lines all the way along. Meaning the Z-axis is no longer accurate as you had surmised. I don't know if that will be enough data points to demonstrate failure in the machine to the Company. But.. I am getting close to that point.


This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/01/30 03:14:09


Consummate 8th Edition Hater.  
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Last series in this. I am going to email support on monday...I am throwing in the towel. The printer quality is crap.

Here we have the last print where I compared lines between prints and you can see the lines on the same file, same setup are not the same indicating Z-axis is unreliable... some de-lamination as well.

Two different resins... similar results though, arguably the translucent works a bit better. It is also very syrupy, viscous.

More pic spam, don't hate me. Just trying to get and document everything.

I was hoping someone would say Oh.. yeah you just need to do X and boom. But A month into this printer. I got in contact with someone else who had issues and had a printer from the same "batch" as mine. Apparently a bad batch and he had to get another one.













I am really upset with Phrozen, this kind of stuff really is unacceptable. I doubt they would give me my money back. It would be like pulling teeth. Frankly. I just want a working printer. This has really soured me to printing in general, but Phrozen specifically. Especially after others who have problems are talking to me and we are all from about a 2 month period of printers and it's just all over the place from cracking cases, proud screens, FEP problems.. yeah.

Consummate 8th Edition Hater.  
   
Made in us
Courageous Questing Knight





Texas

Wow, terrible... Maybe they will honor the waranty from the first point you had problems with the printer and allow a replacement.

My Novella Collection is available on Amazon - Action/Fantasy/Sci-Fi - https://www.amazon.com/Three-Roads-Dreamt-Michael-Leonard/dp/1505716993/

 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





 MDSW wrote:
Wow, terrible... Maybe they will honor the waranty from the first point you had problems with the printer and allow a replacement.


That is my hope.

I think for me the "red flag" was the measure ruler print. It nearly maxed out the Z-axis for the printer and note that the small end was the last part to print and suddenly we get layer shift error which means there was uncertainty in the Z-axis at that point.

Literally ONE print later the Z-axis jammed.

AKA, there was something wrong in the Z-axis, that lead to the damage to the threads, which lead to the jam. The thread replacement was a band-aid on a problem as the z-axis uncertainty became extensive from top to bottom rather than at near max.
My guess, something wrong with either the motor control software or the stepper motor itself or the mechanical linkage in the stepper and the Z-axis shaft.. and-or something wrong with the threads on the Z-axis shaft. Or any combination there of.

The stabbing of the FEP is related to that uncertainty in the Z-axis motion. That's not damage from removing stuck prints. I use a "float" method to get stuck resin off the FEP. Drain the vat, clean it up, then pour in some iso and let it soak and the stuck part will "float" free as the ISO breaks the suction by dissolving the uncured resin. It's a "costly", in Iso, but it also means you never have to pry anything loose.

The trick is getting them to honor the warranty.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/01 02:26:25


Consummate 8th Edition Hater.  
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





No response from Phrozen. They are usually quick with their usual go through the process emails.

This time, silence.


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Have you tried this form? they've been recently posting it in responses to issues in the Facebook group.

https://phrozen3d.com/pages/technical-issue-form
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





 Monkeysloth wrote:
Have you tried this form? they've been recently posting it in responses to issues in the Facebook group.

https://phrozen3d.com/pages/technical-issue-form


Phrozen got back to me with "factory settings" that I've never seen before.It took them two days to find them. Makes one think.

They appear to work. We are not perfect yet. But for some reason, they work. Even though the lift speed is higher.

The only real major difference is the light off delay. I have not "calibrated" the new Aqua-grey (dark grey really) 4k resin.

Also did a Thermal Test.
Video up..



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