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they got this -1 dmg buff and its insane, I saw 95% dreadnought spacewolf list just march up the table and curb stomp an army full of anti-tank

I own a lot of space wolf dreadnoughts. This is good news when I can eventually play warhammer again!

bat702 wrote:
they got this -1 dmg buff and its insane, I saw 95% dreadnought spacewolf list just march up the table and curb stomp an army full of anti-tank

"an army full of anti-tank"

I'm just going to say: No, dreadnoughts don't have too much good stuff.

Whatever list they "curb stomped" probably was terrible or poorly played to get "curb stomped" by an army of dreadnoughts.

Quasistellar wrote:

bat702 wrote:
they got this -1 dmg buff and its insane, I saw 95% dreadnought spacewolf list just march up the table and curb stomp an army full of anti-tank

"an army full of anti-tank"

I'm just going to say: No, dreadnoughts don't have too much good stuff.

Whatever list they "curb stomped" probably was terrible or poorly played to get "curb stomped" by an army of dreadnoughts.

agree to disagree


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iv also seen alot of battle-reports online where the dakka leviathan dreadnaughts literally just get ignored all game as they are too durable to try and kill

bat702 wrote:
they got this -1 dmg buff and its insane, I saw 95% dreadnought spacewolf list just march up the table and curb stomp an army full of anti-tank

What was the terrain like and what was the anti-tank the other player had?

he had basically an entire army of wraithguard with melta pikes, which some psychers for buffs, debuffs, and a couple small units of guardians for objectives

bat702 wrote:
he had basically an entire army of wraithguard with melta pikes, which some psychers for buffs, debuffs, and a couple small units of guardians for objectives

I hate to break it to you but it doesn't take a broken unit to beat an Eldar army that's spent a ton of points on units (Wraithguard) that are straight-up terrible. It sucks, but until Eldar get an update they are one of the armies I wouldn't consider bringing to the table.

it was still hilarious to see an army of anti-tank get steamrolled by a super unfluffy army of nothing but space wolf dreadnoughts and ragnar


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also iv seen alot of battlereports, and wraithguard are actually one of the more competitive eldar units


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but I guess the only actually competitive eldar unit is currently shining spears?

Genuine question, what are melta spikes ? (wraithguards have two available weapons none are "melta stuff").

Edit : Eldar mostly play with wraith (which aren't that bad, outside of the knight, given the state of the other choices) and vehicles right now as far as I'm aware. Probably more likely mostly vehicles with cheap units of DA and the usual support.

Thematically i kinda like the imperium getting upgraded units in the new edition, like Cawl has finally opened his toybox and letting the other kids play with his stuff. It makes sense that after a century or so of guilleman in charge there'd be some real change in the imperium, and updating tech would be a thing.

If it means other players can't win, then it's bad for the game until and unless gw fixes it.

BTW I'd love to have seen a video batrep of that battle.

dhallnet wrote:
Genuine question, what are melta spikes ? (wraithguards have two available weapons none are "melta stuff").

Edit : Eldar mostly play with wraith (which aren't that bad, outside of the knight, given the state of the other choices) and vehicles right now as far as I'm aware. Probably more likely mostly vehicles with cheap units of DA and the usual support.

The wraithguard have wraithcannons which were basically melta weapons/fusion weapons, tho they dont get the bonus for being in half range

I have no idea what a "melta pike" might be, but I do know wraithguard are really bad, especially in that matchup. It would be hard to do enough damage to dreads before they get into melee range and just delete them.

But yeah, overall, you're basing an assumption on two skew lists (and one of them having pretty objectively terrible units). When skew meets, sometimes you get lopsided results.

bat702 wrote:

dhallnet wrote:
Genuine question, what are melta spikes ? (wraithguards have two available weapons none are "melta stuff").

Edit : Eldar mostly play with wraith (which aren't that bad, outside of the knight, given the state of the other choices) and vehicles right now as far as I'm aware. Probably more likely mostly vehicles with cheap units of DA and the usual support.

The wraithguard have wraithcannons which were basically melta weapons/fusion weapons, tho they dont get the bonus for being in half range

It's a portable mini warp rift generator. Not anything as a fusion weapon either in the rules (doesn't do as much damage) or in the lore (do way more damage). They thought (and seem to still think) S10 was useful, the fools.

And ok because I was wondering if he was using the D-Scythes, which does only 1 damage per wound.

Might want longer range AT weaponry though. Not that Eldars have great choices there either anyway.


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Quasistellar wrote:
It would be hard to do enough damage to dreads before they get into melee range and just delete them.

Exactly.

Quasistellar wrote:
I have no idea what a "melta pike" might be, but I do know wraithguard are really bad, especially in that matchup. It would be hard to do enough damage to dreads before they get into melee range and just delete them.

But yeah, overall, you're basing an assumption on two skew lists (and one of them having pretty objectively terrible units). When skew meets, sometimes you get lopsided results.

to a degree, they are still heavily anti-tank, and he was able to pack them inside buildings to negate alot of dreadnought closecombat, bthe dreads wiped them out with almost all shooting, only ragnar did significant melee, and I just disagree in thinking the new dreads aren't over tuned abit

Sure they can be used as AT in a pinch but they are more anti heavy infantry than AT.
You're supposed to move, shoot, get charged, survive and then fallback and shoot for free.

Not that it really works either but hey, at least there was an intent.

bat702 wrote:
it was still hilarious to see an army of anti-tank get steamrolled by a super unfluffy army of nothing but space wolf dreadnoughts and ragnar

Did the Wraithguard even get to shoot? It seems to me that unless they were well screened those Wolfnaughts could have easily tied them up in CC before they ever got a single melta shot off.

also iv seen alot of battlereports, and wraithguard are actually one of the more competitive eldar units

I guess I could be wrong on that one, but they seem like they're too expensive and offer too little offensive output to be good.

the way the terrain was setup they got plenty of shooting, they were hiding ontop of ruins and the dreads had a real tough time getting into closecombat at all


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bat702 wrote:
the way the terrain was setup they got plenty of shooting, they were hiding ontop of ruins and the dreads had a real tough time getting into closecombat at all

Also they become good when you enhance them with buffs and debuff their targets with your farseers and warlocks

bat702 wrote:
the way the terrain was setup they got plenty of shooting, they were hiding ontop of ruins and the dreads had a real tough time getting into closecombat at all

What were the Dreadnaughts equipped with? It doesn't seem like castling up with 12" shooting is a great idea as even multi-meltas outrange you at that stage and they win that trade hands down even at 12".

LOL....-1 damage is massive OP....really people? If you have an anti Tank list and -1 damage per shot breaks you I would suggest you quit immediately and switch back to playing video games..............playing with army men is obviously beyond you. :-)

 Da-Rock wrote:
LOL....-1 damage is massive OP....really people? If you have an anti Tank list and -1 damage per shot breaks you I would suggest you quit immediately and switch back to playing video games..............playing with army men is obviously beyond you. :-)

While harsh and a bit arrogant, the actual statement here is correct in that there isn't much broken about it. What should REALLY be complained about is how random damage can be doing D6. At least D3 has a lower probability curve.

Also now that Melta flat out adds extra damage you should definitely hit a Dread or Helbrute with that.

I sware all you people play is marines and against marines, that and probably custodes which is marines, sisters of battles which is marines, and maybe only harlequins

I don't think they got to much new stuff, just apply d6 or damage 3 weapon to the dreadnought until it stop moving. I normally do this via smasha guns and other Ork Artillery.

bat702 wrote:
I sware all you people play is marines and against marines, that and probably custodes which is marines, sisters of battles which is marines, and maybe only harlequins

Necrons, Slaanesh, Mixed Daemons, Orks, Ad Mech, Tyranids, Chaos (As a faction), Nurgle, and Both Knight houses are non-marine armies that are all likely to roll over that Eldar list without breaking a sweat. It sucks that Eldar are currently trash tier to the point where even their best units kind of suck but that's what the facts say.

For crying out loud. First it was "Ghaz is too tough", then C'tans, then Death Guard and Mortarion, then Deathwing Terminators, now dreadnoughts? After years of complaining about the ever increasing lethality in 40k, now everyone is is complaining about things not dying fast enough?

Give me a break.

I played a silly list with a Leviathan, Furioso, and Librarian Dreadnought against my friend's IG yesterday. I won the game but his Tank Commander's Demolisher cannon had no problem killing the dreads when he wanted to get rid of them. They all went down. I've had similar experiences against him with my Redemptor. If he wants to kill them and has the opportunity, they will die.

I'd say no, -1dmg isn't even close to a gamebreaker.

bat702 wrote:

dhallnet wrote:
Genuine question, what are melta spikes ? (wraithguards have two available weapons none are "melta stuff").

Edit : Eldar mostly play with wraith (which aren't that bad, outside of the knight, given the state of the other choices) and vehicles right now as far as I'm aware. Probably more likely mostly vehicles with cheap units of DA and the usual support.

The wraithguard have wraithcannons which were basically melta weapons/fusion weapons, tho they dont get the bonus for being in half range

So, not melta weapons.

Yeah I've never been unde the impression that wraith weapons were melta equivalent. Fusion was that.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
For crying out loud. First it was "Ghaz is too tough", then C'tans, then Death Guard and Mortarion, then Deathwing Terminators, now dreadnoughts? After years of complaining about the ever increasing lethality in 40k, now everyone is is complaining about things not dying fast enough?

Give me a break.

People always complained about defensive mechanics the most. Tau Shield Drones. Poxblossom lists. Alaitoc Flyers. 3++ Castellan. Plaguebearer spam. Iron Stone as an aura. Etc.., etc. In 7th it was invisible screamer-stars, Barkstars, unkillable Wraithknights, etc..

Concerns about exaggerated lethality in 8th was more of an inside concern by a handful of people, but hardly a wide-spread complaint. Generally, the vast majority of people perceive the game as "fun" when stuff dies and boring (and often broken) when it's too defensive.

If stuff in the game is "too lethal", you can usually out-maneouver it, out-play it, etc.. (though there might be exceptions, like super-lethal Imp. Fists artillery). It's a flaw in the game, but a flaw you can play around with skill.

If stuff is mathematically unlikely to die and just gets shoved centre-board, that's just that. The game becomes 3-hour Yahtzee where you hope to roll above-average.

Also, I strongly suspect that the people who are complaining about the game being too lethal are not necessarily the people complaining about things being too difficult to kill.

bat702 wrote:
the way the terrain was setup they got plenty of shooting, they were hiding ontop of ruins and the dreads had a real tough time getting into closecombat at all

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bat702 wrote:
the way the terrain was setup they got plenty of shooting, they were hiding ontop of ruins and the dreads had a real tough time getting into closecombat at all

Also they become good when you enhance them with buffs and debuff their targets with your farseers and warlocks

Shooty dreadnaught will have no problem demolishing Wraithguard with Wraithcannons if the Wraithguard don't get within the 12" range of their weapon. S10 AP -4 Dmg d6 is useless if it doesn't fire.

That being said, a single Wraithcannon averages 1.11 points of damage to a dreadnaught. That's and average 7-8 to kill a Dreadnaught 11-12 to kill a Redemptor. However, it can be done in as few as 2 for a Dreadnought and 3 for a Redemptor.