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1st Company Vanguard

Azrael

10 Deathwing Terminators with 2 Plasma Cannons
8 Deathwing Knights
Ravenwing Chief Apothecary (selfless healer)

Patrol

TDAIC Master of Sanctity (wise orator)
Ezekiel

3x5 assault intercessors

4 Ravenwing bikes with 2 meltaguns

5 plasma inceptors

Azrael and the Deathwing Terminators camp the home objective to max out stubborn defiance and contribute some plasma sniping. Chappy and knights charge a key unit near or on an objective, then cap that objective for the rest of the game (too slow to do much else). Zeke leads the midfield skirmish with the intercessors, bikes, and inceptors. Ambulance's priority is the knights, then the inceptors. With a base of 2 out of 4-6 objectives held by anvils and 15 secondary points all but guaranteed, plus the most threatening unit deleted by the knights, I like my chances. If I routinely hold the home objective without any real threat, I may combat-squad the deathwing terminators to generate an additional unit, but that probably shifts the ambulance off of the knights.

I would trade the Plasma Cannons on the Terminators for Cyclone Launchers. Much better damage output vs. big stuff or hordes thanks to having two different modes. Does cost more points, but you could probably drop the extra bike in the bike squad. Also, it could be worth paying extra points for a Bike Chaplain over a Terminator one, as the mobility will really help you get him where he's needed most. Finally, you could probably replace the standard Bikes with a trio of Attack Bikes, as their firepower is better for not that many points more (140 points for the bike unit you've listed; 165 for the three ABs with MM). To come up with the points for all these changes, you might have to drop a Knight or two, but I think it would be worth it to optimize the list a bit better.

Just my 2 cents.

I'm relatively new to Dark Angels. What does the Knights provide over taking more Deathwing Terminators who have objective secured? Ezekiel can potentially remove objective secured, but can still present a challenge based upon who has most number of models on the objective where the Knights are located.

 Sarigar wrote:
I'm relatively new to Dark Angels. What does the Knights provide over taking more Deathwing Terminators who have objective secured? Ezekiel can potentially remove objective secured, but can still present a challenge based upon who has most number of models on the objective where the Knights are located.

Knights are the boogeyman in DA lists. It's that unit where you know it's going to need exorbitant amount of effort to remove so you'd like to ignore them as long as possible, but still needs to deal with them right now because they're going to be in range in the next turn.

Performance wise, they're practically TH/SS termie without the -1 to hit. The flail on the knights give them a slight edge over regular termies when faced with horde in melee.

@ OP: At 2000 pt games, focusing on single objective holding mass may give you trouble securing the remaining objectives, and you will often need to rely on denying objectives rather than controlling them. In that sense, your ranged offense seems lacking in properly dealing with rush en masse towards objectives from your opponent. Right now, you're looking at 6 units responsible for causing damage from distance, 4 of which are lacking in serious fire power.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
I would trade the Plasma Cannons on the Terminators for Cyclone Launchers. Much better damage output vs. big stuff or hordes thanks to having two different modes. Does cost more points, but you could probably drop the extra bike in the bike squad. Also, it could be worth paying extra points for a Bike Chaplain over a Terminator one, as the mobility will really help you get him where he's needed most. Finally, you could probably replace the standard Bikes with a trio of Attack Bikes, as their firepower is better for not that many points more (140 points for the bike unit you've listed; 165 for the three ABs with MM). To come up with the points for all these changes, you might have to drop a Knight or two, but I think it would be worth it to optimize the list a bit better.

Just my 2 cents.

The recommendation to take CMLs is a common one. I understand the appeal of a weapon that's a jack of all trades. I remember the 5th edition debate over fireknife crisis suits. The question is whether you want to be decent against multiple target types or excellent against a narrower range. I'd rather have a team of specialists who are individually experts in a variety of fields than a team of generalists. The added range of the CML is attractive, but the orkiness of D6 damage is not, and frag missiles are underwhelming just in general. Against a horde, they're going to do better than krak missiles, but they're not going to impress. Krak vs WotDA and rerolling misses is no contest. Plasma gets twice the shots and turns the average of 3.5 damage into a flat 3. Assuming all shots hit and wound, that's an average of 12 damage (based on 4 hits vs 2) vs 7 damage. No contest. Plasma plus Azrael plus WotDA is vastly superior against tanks.

I do have a bike chaplain, , but it would have to be the primaris statline, which would be a proxy for me. If we get a statline for an interrogator on a bike, I'm going to be more willing to make the switch. Really, his primary role is the 7" charge for the knights on turn 2. If he dies on turn two, but they sink their charge, he's done his job. Extreme mobility after turn two would be nice, because it would allow him to join Zeke in the midfield for juicy buffs on the assault intercessors, but it's not essential.

I would love to run attack bikes instead of regular ones, but I only have one. Maybe after I'm done painting assault intercessors, I'll make two more...

I might consider cutting ONE knight. My position is that 5-6 isn't enough because the flail is fail, 7-8 is right-sized, and 9-10 is inefficient.










Automatically Appended Next Post:

 skchsan wrote:

@ OP: At 2000 pt games, focusing on single objective holding mass may give you trouble securing the remaining objectives, and you will often need to rely on denying objectives rather than controlling them. In that sense, your ranged offense seems lacking in properly dealing with rush en masse towards objectives from your opponent. Right now, you're looking at 6 units responsible for causing damage from distance, 4 of which are lacking in serious fire power.

Except that it's not single objective holding mass. It's two objective holding mass. If I have a base of two objectives in a game of 4-6 objectives, it's an uphill struggle for my opponent. 2-4 are in play, and 2 are mine outright. Even in a game with 6, I have a massive advantage with 2 of them covered by absolute anvils.

I'm not understanding your math of 6 shooty units. I have DWT, bikes, and inceptors for shooting, that's just three. Of those, I would concede that the bikes are a bit lacking. But surely you don't see the assault intercessors as shooty units with their paltry five shots each!

In addition to the concept that I will dominate one objective from turn one and another reliably from turn 3, but possibly from turn 2, you don't appear to be taking into account what the knights do before they camp that second objective, which is delete the single most critical (non-reserved) unit in my opponent's list, and on turn 2. The value of deleting a threat is inversely proportional to the turn on which it is eliminated, and turn 2 is absolutely excellent. With a base of 2/(4-6) objectives, the keystone enemy unit deleted, and one secondary objective reliably maxed out, I'm in a pretty good position.