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Hi guys,

I am looking for clarification on grinding advance of the guard russes.

Rule says you can shoot twice the turret. Question comes on the order of things. Does shooting twice mean you do twice the shoots, lets say 2d6. Or you shoot once 1d6 and then start all over the process (check line of sight and so on).

How does it intereact with the catachan (or custom trait) reroll for the number of shoots?

If it says shoot twice, then you would shoot once, resolve it and then do it all over again. Most players fast roll it, do it together but this may cause issues if the first casualties would take the unit out of range/LoS.

Good question and thanks for the answer Valkyrie. I wasn't aware of that, good to know.

Valkyrie's right, it's another shooting sequence. Think of it as the shooting equivalent of some units' abilties to fight again; they have to go through the attack sequence a second time when they fight again. Same for Grinding Advance and turret weapons.

So I guess, same applies to Eradicators rigth?

Their getting to shoot twice? Yes.

 doctortom wrote:
Their getting to shoot twice? Yes.

Their conditions on Los and range for the second voley

Interesting rule. When would a unit not be an eligible target for those attacks ? If its ineligible, you wouldnt be able to target it at all. You wouldnt be able to shoot it even once in your shooting phase.

Total Obliteration
In your shooting phase, each time this unit is selected to shoot, if it has not Advanced this turn, it can unleash total obliteration, If it does, select one enemy unit; models in this unit can shoot twice this phase, but they can only make attacks that target that enemy unit(and only if that enemy unit is an eligible target for those attacks)

 p5freak wrote:
Interesting rule. When would a unit not be an eligible target for those attacks ? If its ineligible, you wouldnt be able to target it at all. You wouldnt be able to shoot it even once in your shooting phase.

Total Obliteration
In your shooting phase, each time this unit is selected to shoot, if it has not Advanced this turn, it can unleash total obliteration, If it does, select one enemy unit; models in this unit can shoot twice this phase, but they can only make attacks that target that enemy unit(and only if that enemy unit is an eligible target for those attacks)

Characters?

 p5freak wrote:
Interesting rule. When would a unit not be an eligible target for those attacks ? If its ineligible, you wouldnt be able to target it at all. You wouldnt be able to shoot it even once in your shooting phase.

Total Obliteration
In your shooting phase, each time this unit is selected to shoot, if it has not Advanced this turn, it can unleash total obliteration, If it does, select one enemy unit; models in this unit can shoot twice this phase, but they can only make attacks that target that enemy unit(and only if that enemy unit is an eligible target for those attacks)

If the target unit removes models from the front when resolving the first round of shooting, then it is possible the target unit would be out of LOS or range when the shooting for the second time.

Aash wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Interesting rule. When would a unit not be an eligible target for those attacks ? If its ineligible, you wouldnt be able to target it at all. You wouldnt be able to shoot it even once in your shooting phase.

Total Obliteration
In your shooting phase, each time this unit is selected to shoot, if it has not Advanced this turn, it can unleash total obliteration, If it does, select one enemy unit; models in this unit can shoot twice this phase, but they can only make attacks that target that enemy unit(and only if that enemy unit is an eligible target for those attacks)

If the target unit removes models from the front when resolving the first round of shooting, then it is possible the target unit would be out of LOS or range when the shooting for the second time.

Hence my question. Not only that, but on multiwound models at 12" damage change can make a big difference.

Orkimedez_Atalaya wrote:

Aash wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Interesting rule. When would a unit not be an eligible target for those attacks ? If its ineligible, you wouldnt be able to target it at all. You wouldnt be able to shoot it even once in your shooting phase.

Total Obliteration
In your shooting phase, each time this unit is selected to shoot, if it has not Advanced this turn, it can unleash total obliteration, If it does, select one enemy unit; models in this unit can shoot twice this phase, but they can only make attacks that target that enemy unit(and only if that enemy unit is an eligible target for those attacks)

If the target unit removes models from the front when resolving the first round of shooting, then it is possible the target unit would be out of LOS or range when the shooting for the second time.

Hence my question. Not only that, but on multiwound models at 12" damage change can make a big difference.

I was suggesting a situation where you would be unable to fire for the second time.

The answer to the original question given above was correct- the first shooting sequence is carried out in full, followed by a second shooting sequence from the beginning, so declaring targets and checking visibility and range. As noted above it is very similar to the way fight twice rules work in close combat.

Aash wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Interesting rule. When would a unit not be an eligible target for those attacks ? If its ineligible, you wouldnt be able to target it at all. You wouldnt be able to shoot it even once in your shooting phase.

Total Obliteration
In your shooting phase, each time this unit is selected to shoot, if it has not Advanced this turn, it can unleash total obliteration, If it does, select one enemy unit; models in this unit can shoot twice this phase, but they can only make attacks that target that enemy unit(and only if that enemy unit is an eligible target for those attacks)

If the target unit removes models from the front when resolving the first round of shooting, then it is possible the target unit would be out of LOS or range when the shooting for the second time.

If that happens the unit would be an ineligible target, and you wouldnt be able to choose it for total obliteration. I dont understand that rule. You can only shoot at eligible targets. Why does it say that the unit has to be an eligible target ??

Aash wrote:

Orkimedez_Atalaya wrote:

Aash wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Interesting rule. When would a unit not be an eligible target for those attacks ? If its ineligible, you wouldnt be able to target it at all. You wouldnt be able to shoot it even once in your shooting phase.

Total Obliteration
In your shooting phase, each time this unit is selected to shoot, if it has not Advanced this turn, it can unleash total obliteration, If it does, select one enemy unit; models in this unit can shoot twice this phase, but they can only make attacks that target that enemy unit(and only if that enemy unit is an eligible target for those attacks)

If the target unit removes models from the front when resolving the first round of shooting, then it is possible the target unit would be out of LOS or range when the shooting for the second time.

Hence my question. Not only that, but on multiwound models at 12" damage change can make a big difference.

I was suggesting a situation where you would be unable to fire for the second time.

The answer to the original question given above was correct- the first shooting sequence is carried out in full, followed by a second shooting sequence from the beginning, so declaring targets and checking visibility and range. As noted above it is very similar to the way fight twice rules work in close combat.

Right. Thank you!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Orkimedez_Atalaya wrote:

Aash wrote:

Orkimedez_Atalaya wrote:

Aash wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Interesting rule. When would a unit not be an eligible target for those attacks ? If its ineligible, you wouldnt be able to target it at all. You wouldnt be able to shoot it even once in your shooting phase.

Total Obliteration
In your shooting phase, each time this unit is selected to shoot, if it has not Advanced this turn, it can unleash total obliteration, If it does, select one enemy unit; models in this unit can shoot twice this phase, but they can only make attacks that target that enemy unit(and only if that enemy unit is an eligible target for those attacks)

If the target unit removes models from the front when resolving the first round of shooting, then it is possible the target unit would be out of LOS or range when the shooting for the second time.

Hence my question. Not only that, but on multiwound models at 12" damage change can make a big difference.

I was suggesting a situation where you would be unable to fire for the second time.

The answer to the original question given above was correct- the first shooting sequence is carried out in full, followed by a second shooting sequence from the beginning, so declaring targets and checking visibility and range. As noted above it is very similar to the way fight twice rules work in close combat.

Right. Thank you!

Then, the reroll for the number of shoots can be taken both times.

 p5freak wrote:

Aash wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Interesting rule. When would a unit not be an eligible target for those attacks ? If its ineligible, you wouldnt be able to target it at all. You wouldnt be able to shoot it even once in your shooting phase.

Total Obliteration
In your shooting phase, each time this unit is selected to shoot, if it has not Advanced this turn, it can unleash total obliteration, If it does, select one enemy unit; models in this unit can shoot twice this phase, but they can only make attacks that target that enemy unit(and only if that enemy unit is an eligible target for those attacks)

If the target unit removes models from the front when resolving the first round of shooting, then it is possible the target unit would be out of LOS or range when the shooting for the second time.

If that happens the unit would be an ineligible target, and you wouldnt be able to choose it for total obliteration. I dont understand that rule. You can only shoot at eligible targets. Why does it say that the unit has to be an eligible target ??

You choose the unit before any shots are fired. If casualties are pulled from the front and they end up out of range after the first volley, then the second volley would be lost. A unit doesn’t become ineligible to be selected because it might later become possibly out of range, that’s crazy.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

You choose the unit before any shots are fired. If casualties are pulled from the front and they end up out of range after the first volley, then the second volley would be lost. A unit doesn’t become ineligible to be selected because it might later become possibly out of range, that’s crazy.

I know. I dont understand why the rule says you can only choose eligible targets for it. Of course you can only choose eligible targets in the shooting phase.

It’s a get-out so that no-one could cheese the rules otherwise simple wording to e.g. fire at a tank over there if someone is in engagement range, or at a character.

 p5freak wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:

You choose the unit before any shots are fired. If casualties are pulled from the front and they end up out of range after the first volley, then the second volley would be lost. A unit doesn’t become ineligible to be selected because it might later become possibly out of range, that’s crazy.

I know. I dont understand why the rule says you can only choose eligible targets for it. Of course you can only choose eligible targets in the shooting phase.

Because you get to shoot twice with the Eradicator squad (which has the Total Obliteration rule) at the nominated unit, but only if the nominated unit is an eligible target for those attacks the second time around.

If your first shooting attack kills all the models in the unit that are in range and/or LoS, and the only models in that unit are out of range, or LoS then you can't make that second shooting attack because the unit is no longer an eligible target.

 DeathReaper wrote:
Because you get to shoot twice with the Eradicator squad (which has the Total Obliteration rule) at the nominated unit, but only if the nominated unit is an eligible target for those attacks the second time around.

If your first shooting attack kills all the models in the unit that are in range and/or LoS, and the only models in that unit are out of range, or LoS then you can't make that second shooting attack because the unit is no longer an eligible target.

Yes, i know. What i mean is those words in brackets are not needed, because you cant shoot at the same unit again, when its out of range, or out of LOS.

 p5freak wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
Because you get to shoot twice with the Eradicator squad (which has the Total Obliteration rule) at the nominated unit, but only if the nominated unit is an eligible target for those attacks the second time around.

If your first shooting attack kills all the models in the unit that are in range and/or LoS, and the only models in that unit are out of range, or LoS then you can't make that second shooting attack because the unit is no longer an eligible target.

Yes, i know. What i mean is those words in brackets are not needed, because you cant shoot at the same unit again, when its out of range, or out of LOS.

Seems like a reminder in the text is all.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
Because you get to shoot twice with the Eradicator squad (which has the Total Obliteration rule) at the nominated unit, but only if the nominated unit is an eligible target for those attacks the second time around.

If your first shooting attack kills all the models in the unit that are in range and/or LoS, and the only models in that unit are out of range, or LoS then you can't make that second shooting attack because the unit is no longer an eligible target.

Yes, i know. What i mean is those words in brackets are not needed, because you cant shoot at the same unit again, when its out of range, or out of LOS.

Seems like a reminder in the text is all.

Yup, it's just a double clarification to make sure no one tries to argue shenanigans about how they should get their second volley because it was eligible in the first round and it's not their fault their opponent decided to remove the one model in the unit that they had LoS to or was in range.

 p5freak wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
Because you get to shoot twice with the Eradicator squad (which has the Total Obliteration rule) at the nominated unit, but only if the nominated unit is an eligible target for those attacks the second time around.

If your first shooting attack kills all the models in the unit that are in range and/or LoS, and the only models in that unit are out of range, or LoS then you can't make that second shooting attack because the unit is no longer an eligible target.

Yes, i know. What i mean is those words in brackets are not needed, because you cant shoot at the same unit again, when its out of range, or out of LOS.

Because some people would take it as permission to shoot a unit that still existed but was no longer in range/LoS because the first part of the rule is overriding the normal state (not many units get to shoot twice after all) and they could semi-legitimately claim that extended to the targeting rules.

Basically it makes the intent of the text completely clear.