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I've been out of 40k for years - stopped with 5th ed because I didn't enjoy many of the changes. Thanks to lockdown, and the time created to both binge watch batreps and paint, I've decided to get back into it for 9th ed. I'm building a new Space Marine army of my homebrew chapter, the Celestial Dragons (samurai space marines, sorry I'm a anime fan ). I'm building a load of Primaris stuff at the moment, and I've got an amount of firstborn stuff from my previous armies that never sold so I'd like to use.

I'm looking to build stuff to fill a Brigade (as in 5 HQs, 12 Troops etc) but I'm not really concerned about points. That includes the 2 Flyers and dedicated transports. I just want to have a Brigade so I have the choice of units. The Dragons are Salamanders successors, but that's for fluff not gameplay, as I want them to be protectors not monsters. So whichever chapter rules you would suggest. The Dragons like to fight up close with flame, melta and plasma weapons, and have a lot of dreadnoughts as they "honour their ancestors". But I'm not looking to spam cheesey units like 3 x 3 eradicators - I'd like this to be a narrative Brigade.

What I have so far;

Chapter Master with Relic Blade

Captain with jump pack & thunder hammer

3 x 10 intercessors

Relic Contemptor dreadnought with magnetised weapon options (he's the first shogun)

6 Flamestorm Aggressors

Replusor Executioner

multi melta dreadnought

2 drop pods, 8 rhinos, 1 razorback

So need 3 HQ, 9 Troops, 5 Elites, 5 Fast Attack, 4 Heavy Support and 2 Flyers. Does anyone have any suggestions on what to go with? Thanks

Welcome to Dakka and back to the Space Marines.

Honestly, it sounds like you want a battle company. You want a large pool of units to pull from, and care more about the fluff then the crunch. So why use the mechanical structure when you can use the lore one? It gets you to basically the same place anyway.

Troops:
You are halfway to your troops with the 3x10 intercessors. Looking at the 8 rhinos in your motor pool, I’d suggest at least a pair of Tactical squads. With your fluff, at least one full melta, if not both. Gearing one for anti-horde work might not be bad, but IMHO we have better tools for that.

Infiltrators make good flex units. Can start upfield, good for screening. Basically the new scouts.

Heavy intercessors look good on paper, models just coming out.

If you want to be able to fill all the slots in the brigade, you can break them up into 5 man squads.

Fast Attack:
This slot has some issues. It’s not our best one, and some people have strong feelings about some of the units (i.e. “I don’t like bikes/Jet packs” or the like) How good some of the units are is also very dependent on chapter tactics. As an Ultramarine, I’m going to get a lot more milage out of regular intercessors over assault ones, while a White Scar player would probably feel the opposite. (Side note: bad example there if you care more about FoC slot over Chapter role, as assault intercessors are a troop pick, but are fast for the companies 60/20/20 split)

From a fluff POV, assault marines with flamers seem like they might fit, but mechanically they might be a little “Meh”. Bikes and Speeders are both ways to get multimeltas within half range. I think the mathhammer crowd endorses attack bikes as a very efficient way of doing so. The new primaris bikes also seem decent bang for your buck.

HS:
Again looking at the motor pool, I’d take at least one dev squad. Sounds like your envisioned style would like to see them hop out of a drop pod loaded up with grav/melta and just evaporate things. But you could also roll up in a rhino. Hellblasters are expensive, but plasma gets the job done. You’d want a transport for them probably to keep the fire off until they get range. Most of our tanks are OK-ish? Depends a lot on how competitive you are aiming to be. While they might be the broken FOTM, you should take at least some eradicators, as they fit your vision for your chapter.

HQ/Elite.
I’m going to suggest the silly/fluffy thing here and tell you to get Seven Samurai to lead your force. Which from a collection POV is not horrible advice. You end up with a disparate mish-mash of characters, banding together. But when it comes time to build a list, you just grab the 2-3 that fit the best. Circling back to the battle company, you have the captain, but you should also have 2xLts and a chaplain. From the elite section, an apothecary and ancient also are required (and can do some fun things on the table)

Dreadnoughts are generally in a good place these days, so if you like them, take them. Bladeguard Vets are also good, and terminators are not bad (for maybe the first time) Most of our units do their jobs, the question is how efficiently. If you want to squeeze max power out of your collection, some will rise to the top.

From a practical standpoint, you might want to look into the bundles GW offers. Building out a collection to this level is not going to be cheep. Things like the Start Collecting: Vanguard box will help pad out the roster, even if it’s not 100% what you want (although it is a decent buy IMHO). If you can grab an indominus box and split the necrons with someone you can get a nice selection of units.

Thanks Nevelon

I was thinking about a Battle Company, but I'm used to 6 Tac, 2 Assault, 2 Dev Squads. The Primaris "assault are troops, devs are elites" model has thrown me a bit.

I've got a load of Iron Snakes Firstborn from when I stopped that I never sold, so I could take those apart and rejig them just buying some heavy weapons which would be a lot cheaper, so that would give me 5 - 6 Tactical or Devastator squads. Do Firstborn and Primaris mix in companies? The core rules and the codex are only new sources of fluff I have so I'm not sure.

I've come to the conclusion of 1 squad of eradicators and 1 squad of Helblasters, and I'm thinking about a pair of Redemptors. I think I'll also get a squad of Infiltrators. I'm also thinking about multiple bike squads (not outriders as I ascribe to marine squads should be at least 5), as samurai were often mounted warriors.

I really like building in multiple HQs to be the seven samurai, and if I'm reading the codex correctly, my captain allows a "free" company command squad, which in turn allow a "free" apothecary, champion and ancient which gets me to 5. Is the Primaris chaplain on bike or primaris librarian better than the firstborn versions?

What's the prevailing wisdom on flyers? I liked the stormraven, but as they can't carry primaris the transport capacity is wasted so it feels like I should just get a pair of dedicated gunships

I can’t speak for all chapters, but mixing old/primaris marines is a thing. There was a picture of the UM 2nd company in the 8th edition codex showing the full strength, and a mix. The composition of companies is a lot muddier than it used to be. Back in the day the only issue was if your assault marines were using jump packs, or on bikes/speeders. Now there are issues with role/FoC, and potentially reserve company guys and other assets being on loan. Plus those damn 3 man squads making the math hard. At the end of the day, make your goal a roughly 60/20/20 split, and use the unit types on page 16 as a guide for which slot they fill. But your chapter, your rules. And the practicality of casualties and recruitment might dictate a short term deviation from a “pure” company, so don’t sweat the small stuff.

The redemptor looks good to me on paper, but I’m not a fan of the looks so never picked one up. It’s got a degrading profile, but more wounds than a regular dread. So when it takes its 7th wound it starts to get worse, but at that point a normal dread is almost dead. Guns look nice. Bit pricy, but I think you’d get you money’s worth out of it. From all reports Eradicators are broken-good right now, and will still probably be OK with a little nerfing. The big problem with hellblasters is that they are a little pricy and die just as easy as a normal marine. But when they shoot, you feel it. If you want to adhere to the 5 man thing and still use the new 3 man units, you can handwave that a bit with similar units. Field 3 primaris on bikes, and have 2 guys manning the ATV. There is your combat squad.

If you go with the firstborn command squad, you can free up slots. That said, the basic detachments come with extra elite slots, so this might not be relevant. Nice perk and callback to the old days when they were a single squad. Also restricts you to the old firstborn versions.

Generally the primaris versions of characters have less options, but better stats. Also they fit in different transports and react to different keywords.

Do you think it’s worth +5 points to give your librarian an extra wound and attack? It locks you into being on foot and with a sword. Or, you could opt for the old one for the savings, but could also invest in things like jump packs and combi weapons (or terminator armor). They both cast powers/deny the same. The phobos guy pulls from a different list, which has some synergy with some units.

For chaplains the extra W/A is a bigger deal, as they want to be in the thick of the fight. But the being on foot thing was a real drag (especially back when the only primaris transport was the expensive repulsor) The new guy on a bike looks really good, and is on my short list to pick up. The old guy on bike has moved to legends. So while he technically still has rules, I’d shy away from using him.

I’ve not fielded my flyers in 9th. Nothing to do with how good/bad they are, it’s just the only 40k I’ve played in the last year is crusade games vs. my son, and I don’t have space for them in my roster. I was looking at the datasheets for the hawk/talon the other week, and came to the conclusion that it’s probably worth the points for the Stormhawk. You loose the ability to hover, but without firing arcs, that’s a lot less relevant IMHO. Better stats and guns. Stormraven is a bit expensive, but also packed with guns with a transport capacity.

One thing with flyers, and honestly I’m the wrong guy to ask as I’ve just been playing small crusade games, is how they react with the victory conditions. I’ve not fielded mine in 9th, so just skipped past those sections of the rules. And as I’ve not been playing the standard missions, can’t speak on how well they do there.