Switch Theme:

The Elysian Fandex  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in gb
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant





England

Hullo again Dakka- long time no post! (Although I doubt I was missed lol)

discord.gg/nmwMFfFWxS

We are a group of over 300 Astra Militarum players who wanted a proper ruleset and codex for Elysian regiments and custom airborne regiments that neither Games Workshop nor Forge World support.
Our development team has been working tirelessly and we are close to producing a full alpha version of a drop troops codex (we’re onto version 0.9999!) as well as being able to make your very own army lists using the Battlescribe app. Currently we are looking for as many people who play the Astra Militarum as possible to help playtest our codex.
Balance is our top priority- the last thing we want is for this codex to be unfair and unfun to play against. While we are looking for people who are willing to playtest, we welcome anyone and everyone who has an interest in this codex, or one in drop troops in general.
Games Workshop has given us permission to make this codex, and while it us unusable for tournaments, it is usable for friendly games of matched play and in games with the new Crusade system.

Discord link at the top for those of you with that. FB link here for those of you with that:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/607976165980083/

And reddit, in case any of you have a presence on that godforsaken platform
https://www.reddit.com/r/ElysianDropTroopsHQ/

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/03/22 19:44:18


See that stuff above? Completely true. All of it, every single word. Stands to reason. 
   
Made in nl
Annoyed Blood Angel Devastator




netherlands

you can drop troops from valkery's so there you have your droptroops, as for the buggys use chimera and lemanrus rules

full compagny of bloodangels,
5000 pnt imperial guard
5000 pnt orks
2500 pnt grey knights
5000 pnt gsc 
   
Made in gb
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant





England

 skeleton wrote:
you can drop troops from valkery's so there you have your droptroops, as for the buggys use chimera and lemanrus rules


Did you actually read the post?
Years have been spent coming up with a full codex, not some half-hearted cut-and-paste proxy.

See that stuff above? Completely true. All of it, every single word. Stands to reason. 
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




Has this been released? I couldn't seem to find the codex in the Reddit link provided.

I've been a Guard player ever since 3rd edition so I'd be happy to give it a read and give my 2 cents.

With Elysians disappearing and the Militarum Tempestus essentially filling in that role I thought a relatively simple solution would be to give the MT the Tauros vehicles and Drop Sentinels. With a buff to BS3+ to represent their crew now being Scions.

Elysians could return as a named regimental doctrine for AM. With their regimental doctrines being giving all regiment infantry the aerial drop rule and all regiment infantry getting carapace armour (4+ save). Then they just need a unique order, unique stratagem, unique relic, and fingers crossed some kind of unique character.

Whilst this certainly wouldn't be as flavourful as their own codex, and probably what you're envisioning I think it would definitely fit in with the current named regiments. Cadians, Catachans, etc.

Though as I said at the start, I'm happy to give it a read.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/19 02:53:35


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Jarms48 wrote:
Has this been released? I couldn't seem to find the codex in the Reddit link provided.
Same question, here.

I tried my hand at a brief Elysian Drop-Troops adaptation to 8e, which was essentially an alternate MILITARUM TEMPESTUS bonus - back before they got actual Tempestus Regiments in Psychic Awakening. A Flyer/Drop-focused Doctrine that nabbed ideas from Cult Ambush to allow for a full, army-wide drop deployment, then just slapped some extra weapon options onto Tempestus Scions and Sentinels (with allowances for Sentinels/Tauros Venators to be Militarum Tempestus). Also buffed the hell out of Sniper Squads, because seriously, good lord.

I'd be interested to see what you came up with!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/19 05:12:35


 
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




RevlidRas wrote:
Jarms48 wrote:
Has this been released? I couldn't seem to find the codex in the Reddit link provided.
Same question, here.

I tried my hand at a brief Elysian Drop-Troops adaptation to 8e, which was essentially an alternate MILITARUM TEMPESTUS bonus - back before they got actual Tempestus Regiments in Psychic Awakening. A Flyer/Drop-focused Doctrine that nabbed ideas from Cult Ambush to allow for a full, army-wide drop deployment, then just slapped some extra weapon options onto Tempestus Scions and Sentinels (with allowances for Sentinels/Tauros Venators to be Militarum Tempestus). Also buffed the hell out of Sniper Squads, because seriously, good lord.

I'd be interested to see what you came up with!


I always felt like sniper squads should have been able to either call down artillery like master of ordinances. Due to their nature of being forward deploying infantry. Maybe even the ability to designate a target and any friendly AM units within 6 inch of them would receive +1 to hit.

Actually one other thing I'd like to have is some kind of AT rifle/anti-material sniper rifle. Statline something similar to:
- 36 inch range, S7, AP-1, Damage 2, each time you select a target for this weapon, you can ignore the Look Out, Sir rule. Each time you make a wound roll of 6+ for this weapon, it inflicts a mortal wound in addition to its normal damage.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/19 05:49:17


 
   
Made in gb
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant





England

The Alpha release was finished yesterday- I’ll post a link here tonight. Hopefully it’ll be up to snuff!

See that stuff above? Completely true. All of it, every single word. Stands to reason. 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Jarms48 wrote:

I always felt like sniper squads should have been able to either call down artillery like master of ordinances. Due to their nature of being forward deploying infantry. Maybe even the ability to designate a target and any friendly AM units within 6 inch of them would receive +1 to hit.
Marker Rounds: When an ELYSIAN SNIPER SQUAD from your army hits any enemy unit(s) in the Shooting phase, you can immediately set up 1 ELYSIAN unit using the Aerial Drop ability as though it were the Reinforcements step of your Movement phase. The unit must be set up more than 5" away from the unit(s) hit by the SNIPER SQUAD, and more than 9" away from all other enemy units.
   
Made in gb
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant





England

Here we go!
https://mega.nz/file/f9cjzQ5Z#fAvfSQq439UDr5RqrWafYpPf4b1HJj13WTEkpYyijPk

That should be a useable link.

See that stuff above? Completely true. All of it, every single word. Stands to reason. 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Alright, so, first things first; hugely impressive in terms of attention to detail. The lore, collected artwork, layout, etc, are all top-notch.

This is clearly a labour of love, so I'm certain my main bit of feedback won't go down well, namely; this should be a direct ASTRA MILITARUM supplement. An unreasonable amount of this roster is conceptually, mechanically, or directly redundant with units that already exist as ASTRA MILITARUM units, but with "Drop" added to the name, and the final result is an unnecessarily large roster that obscures the actual, meaningful differences between this and a vanilla Guard force. I can't tell if the Drop Platoon Commander has 2-for-1 role slots because it's a... special, Drop-related thing, or if it has 2-for-1 role slots because you think regular Platoon Commanders should have 2-for-1 role slots. I can't tell if Powerlifter Sentinels are here because they're a special Drop thing, or because you really like Powerlifters and don't want to lose them.

You clearly really care about Elysians (and drop troops in general), and want to give them their own, totally unique roster instead of tweaking Astra Militarum, but sometimes less really is more. Voice of Command is identical except for one swapped-in order (which is... what a regular regiment has?). Warlord Traits are identical except for one swapped-out trait (ditto). A whole bunch of Stratagems are just AM stratagems. Storm Troopers are just Militarum Tempestus with a new name and access to <REGIMENT>. What's there is great, but it's so hard to dig it out of the filler, and I can't see any reason why it couldn't be slimmed down into a more readable, efficient format. Is there really any value in DROP TROOPER SQUAD being a separate unit from INFANTRY SQUAD, when you can turn the latter into the former by giving them Aerial Drop and +1Ld? It feels like a Detachment Ability got turned into a whole army (and aren't Elysians all clad in carapace anyway?).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/20 07:54:16


 
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




RevlidRas wrote:
Alright, so, first things first; hugely impressive in terms of attention to detail. The lore, collected artwork, layout, etc, are all top-notch.

This is clearly a labour of love, so I'm certain my main bit of feedback won't go down well, namely; this should be a direct ASTRA MILITARUM supplement. An unreasonable amount of this roster is conceptually, mechanically, or directly redundant with units that already exist as ASTRA MILITARUM units, but with "Drop" added to the name, and the final result is an unnecessarily large roster that obscures the actual, meaningful differences between this and a vanilla Guard force. I can't tell if the Drop Platoon Commander has 2-for-1 role slots because it's a... special, Drop-related thing, or if it has 2-for-1 role slots because you think regular Platoon Commanders should have 2-for-1 role slots.

You clearly really care about Elysians (and drop troops in general), and want to give them their own, totally unique roster instead of tweaking Astra Militarum, but sometimes less really is more. Voice of Command is identical except for one swapped-in order (which is... what a regular regiment has?). Warlord Traits are identical except for one swapped-out trait (ditto). A whole bunch of Stratagems are just AM stratagems. Storm Troopers are just Militarum Tempestus with a new name and access to <REGIMENT>. What's there is great, but it's so hard to dig it out of the filler, and I can't see any reason why it couldn't be slimmed down into a more readable, efficient format. Is there really any value in DROP TROOPER SQUAD being a separate unit from INFANTRY SQUAD, when you can turn the latter into the former by giving them Aerial Drop and +1Ld? It feels like a Detachment Ability got turned into a whole army (and aren't Elysians all clad in carapace anyway?).


I agree with much of this. Though I understand what they're trying to do, this effort isn't just bringing back Elysians, but an attempt to let players use any kind of drop regiment. I see other regiments and appreciate seeing Harakoni Warhawks. We could say the same thing about GW releasing separate codexes for every famous Space Marine chapter.

I was surprised to see so many 5+ save units, I was under the impression most of the named drop regiments had some form of carapace armour as standard. Obviously there's going to be non-carapace armoured drop regiments but there needs to be more distinction between which ones do and don't have it.

I think there's also a lot of balancing issues with this. Take your Stormtrooper squads for example, they're pretty much Scions with a different name. They get an extra hot-shot lasgun, their hot-shot lasguns have been buffed to 24 inch range, they can now benefit from regiment traits instead of having to be taken in a separate detachment or miss out, and you've made them cheaper. If anything these guys should be 10 or 11 points per model.

I don't see why Tauros vehicles have WS4+ when all other vehicles asides from walkers typically have WS6+. It's also weird that they have 2 attacks when sentinels only get 1.

I don't like the idea of aerial drop Ogryns. They're claustrophobic and require convincing to just get into a standard transport. Could you imagine how they'd react being pushed out of a plane? Sure, you can do it current in game with a Valkyrie but that's more of an issue of game rules interaction.

You'll need to also do a pass for editing. There's a lot in there that looks like it's just been copy-pasted. Engineers have hot-shot lasgun profiles but are armed with shotguns. Stormtrooper Command Squad mentions Veterans in the upgrade options. There's a lot of these instances.

Please don't let our criticism dishearten you. I think the effort and professionalism is amazing.
   
Made in us
Pewling Menial





Superior, Wisconsin

Honestly speaking, as someone who's played Elysians through thick and thing, I get trying to make an overall Drop Troops supplement, but at the same time, there's a lot of legitimate bloat and cool ideas just thrown at the wall. Command Tauros is a solid idea, not so much a Command Sentinel. Making Scions a (regiment) keyword is also kind of meh from the perspective of how Scions already are laid out and it seems a disservice in some regards. Platoon Commanders and the like should also be an Elites slot, to mirror the existing Guard Codex instead of just being a cheaper HQ slot, although the ability to take two in a slot is a neat idea, even if it doesn't actually resolve the real guard issue in lacking Platoons to justify their existence. Whilst the idea of bikers and their associated leader is pretty cool, its also blatantly just snagging existing rules from GSC.

Troops are okay, although I'd prefer Breacher Charges personally as they appeared in the FW Index of yesteryear. Elites slot is also sort of bloated, and there's an extraneous Tactical Air Controller datasheet just occupying an entire page. Drop Ogryn are cool, but its in the lore that Ogryn don't like tight spaces, and I'd have to agree with Jarms48 that its just not really an interesting idea. Techpriest and servitors seems less likely to be in a aggressive drop trooper regiment as well. Fast Attack has some extra units that also don't seem to have much of a role such as the Forward Recon Squad, being a source of snipers rifles in cloaks in an army with a glut of options for sniper rifles, up to and including the previous iteration of the Elysian Sniper Team.

I think I have to speak more specifically on the Tauros as its implemented. Previously it gained the Invulnerable save for moving at least 10", which wasn't copy pasted correctly in one specific instance. Honestly, that setup fits far more with being fast and mobile instead of forcing units to advance. It also cripples using anything but HKM or the titular Tauros Grenade Launcher in any reasonable capacity beyond Tokyo Drifting and doing little else. Medic Tauros is a neat idea, but there needs to be some drastic editing for clarity on the specific healing/bring back ability. The Venator having the ability to advance and shoot is nice, but I think it'd still be preferable to just move X amount for Y bonus. Bikes still have my sort of same issue as I noted in the HQ selection, they're clearly lifted from GSC, and not in a particularly interesting way either, being more limited in gear options overall.

The Power Lifter is just..... it doesn't belong. Its inherently a backline unit meant for depots and the like, not for regular combat with a drop trooper regiment, particularly as its entire role is to move heavy boxes from place A to place B. Its inclusion seems more of a pet add on. Support Sentinel I understand a little bit more, but it seems extraneous as well. Now onto the fun unit. The Drop Weapons Platform. Well then, this is a unit. First off, the Tarantula already exists and was available for Elysians. Second off, it doesn't fit with the overall feel. This is clearly a heavier piece of artillery that's set up and manned, and less something quickly airdroppable as need-be in combat. Its also trying to be the Saber Defense Platform with bigger guns.

To be honest, the Aquilla and Arvus transports don't fit in as well, as they're definitely more fitting for inquisitorial and mundane sorts of options, or could just be present as they are as a flyer selection. I know exactly what you were going for with the Tauros Maximus and I applaud it, but its role is extremely narrow for what it can transport. The Trojan Support Vehicle just seems wrong to be present, considering its a full on chimera hull. Flyer selection seems to be average, adding the specific Aeronautica Imperialis Thunderbolt variant's a decent idea. I don't agree with Roving Gunship on the Vendetta as much though, as the Vendetta still has full transport capacity in addition to its weapons payload. There does have to be a downside in some regards. Tarantula as a fortification fits with how it was adjusted in the Compendium. I'm sort of just going to avoid D-99 as a whole because its a detachment from a very specific conflict in a very specific book and not as relevant.

As far as wargear options go, Magnoculars are a dead upgrade of minimal value, especially considering how the board size has changed in 9th overall, Smoke Launchers are consistent with how they are in the current rules, but likely to change when the next Guard Codex comes to match more with how they're presented in the Marine book, Ballistic Shields seems more like someone's fan favorite idea to make their guardsman super tough. Flare/Chaff is a neat idea, but it suffers especially considering what's a 'Missile weapon' is not wholly well defined in all instances.

I could get into it a lot with points costs, but there's not much to say beyond the value of innate deepstrike and a +1 Ld is more befitting a regimental trait. Also Drop Trooper squads are literally a non option outside of tryign to be fun, as for 1.5pts more per model, you get two specials per five, 4+ armor and 3+ BS. A bargain at that price.

Going onto the actual regimental traits, there's no option but Elysian here, and that's outside of my bias for Elysian stronk and glorious. Phantine requires heavy investment in aircraft to have any sort of payoff, Harakoni literally just grants wargear access and 6+ shrugs on planes, Cascadia is such a nothing burger beyond the always on cover save no matter what. Pathfinders has one extremely specific niche and if I didn't say 'Punisher Vulture Spam' I'd be lying. Harlots is just bad. Great you can always wound everything on a 4+ in melee and get extra AP on sixes to wound in melee, but why the hell are you in melee to begin with? The custom regimental traits range from 'literally just remake this regiment but better' in the case of Harakoni or just duplicate an existing regiment. Also there's some busted options ripe for abuse and some extremely, extremely, extremely trap options such as Honor Paint.

I'd also agree with RevlidRas that its more fitting to prepare it as material on top of the existing rules framework instead of outright trying to make everything unique.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




To be more constructive with my feedback: here's a quick example of how you could execute a lot of the amazing work you've done here, but in a way that feels more integrated into the existing Astra Militarum Faction:

Drop Troops Detachments
When you include an ASTRA MILITARUM Detachment in your army, you can designate it a Drop Troops Detachment.
  • Drop Troops Detachments gain the Drop Troops and Specialist Armoury abilities.
  • DROP TROOPS units in Drop Troops Detachments gain the Airborne Assault and Drop Doctrines abilities.
  • Troops and SCOUT SENTINELS units in Drop Troops Detachments gain the Objective Secured ability.

  • Drop Troops
  • INFANTRY models with a Leadership characteristic of 6 or more in a Drop Troops Detachment with the <REGIMENT> or <TEMPESTUS REGIMENT> keyword replace that keyword in every instance with <DROP REGIMENT>.
  • All VEHICLE models with a Wounds characteristic of 6 or less in a Drop Troops Detachment with the <REGIMENT> or <TEMPESTUS REGIMENT> keyword replace that keyword in every instance with <DROP REGIMENT>.
  • All units with the <DROP REGIMENT>, AERONAUTICA IMPERIALIS, or OFFICIO PREFECTUS keywords (other than TITANIC units) gain the DROP TROOPS keyword.

  • Specialist Armoury
    For the purposes of DROP TROOPS units in a Drop Troops Detachment:
  • The Heavy Weapons list includes the following: sniper rifle. If a DROP TROOPS model is equipped with a sniper rifle, improve its Ballistic Skill by 1.
  • The Special Weapons list includes the following: breacher charge; lascutter.
  • The Ranged Weapons list includes the following: shotgun; grenade launcher.
  • A SCOUT SENTINEL can replace its multi-laser with 1 of the following: 1 heavy bolter; 1 multi-melta.

  • For the purposes of DROP TROOPS units in a Drop Troops Detachment:
  • The Heavy Weapons list does not include the following: autocannon; lascannon.
  • The Special Weapons list does not include the following: sniper rifle.
  • A SCOUT SENTINEL cannot replace its multi-laser with any of the following: 1 autocannon; 1 lascannon.

  • Airborne Assault
  • If every unit in your army has the DROP TROOPS keyword, this unit has the Aerial Drop and Advance Drop abilities.
  • If this unit has the Scout Vehicle ability, or if it already had the Aerial Drop ability, it additionally gains the Air Cavalry ability.

  • Aerial Drop: During deployment, you can set up this unit in a high-altitude transport, ready to deploy via grav-chute, instead of placing it on the battlefield. At the end of any of your Movement phases the unit can make an aerial drop – set it up anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 9" away from any enemy models.

    Advance Drop: During deployment, when you set up this unit, if every model in this unit has this ability then it can be set up anywhere on the battlefield that is outside of the enemy deployment zone and more than 9" away from any enemy models.

    Air Cavalry: This unit, and any DROP TROOPS TRANSPORT it is embarked within, can be set up in the Reinforcements step of your first, second or third Movement phase, regardless of any mission rules. When this unit is set up embarked within a DROP TROOPS TRANSPORT in the Reinforcements step of your Movement phase, it can immediately disembark. If it does so, it must be set up more than 9" from any enemy models.

    Drop Doctrines
    If your army is Battle-forged, all <DROP REGIMENT> and AERONAUTICA IMPERIALIS units with this ability gain a Drop Doctrine so long as every unit in their Detachment has the DROP TROOPS keyword, and the Detachment does not include units from more than one <DROP REGIMENT>. The Doctrine gained depends upon which Drop Regiment they are from, as shown below.


    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/20 13:34:53


     
       
    Made in us
    Ship's Officer





    Dallas, TX

    I made a conversion vehicle out of a Storm Speeder for Elysians way back, using the gunner body from Tauros Venator and a spare leg cut at the knees to make the pilot.

    Spoiler:


    EDIT: I propose to use the speeder as 'Salamander Scout/Command Vehicle' but with speeder profiles, it would fit the drop troop theme perfectly.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/21 02:33:24


     
       
    Made in gb
    Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant





    England

    I’ll pass all this on, guys. Thanks.

    See that stuff above? Completely true. All of it, every single word. Stands to reason. 
       
    Made in eu
    Fresh-Faced New User




    Hello everyone, I am part of the development team and I thank you for the feedbacks.

    RevlidRas wrote:
    Alright, so, first things first; hugely impressive in terms of attention to detail. The lore, collected artwork, layout, etc, are all top-notch.

    This is clearly a labour of love, so I'm certain my main bit of feedback won't go down well, namely; this should be a direct ASTRA MILITARUM supplement. An unreasonable amount of this roster is conceptually, mechanically, or directly redundant with units that already exist as ASTRA MILITARUM units, but with "Drop" added to the name, and the final result is an unnecessarily large roster that obscures the actual, meaningful differences between this and a vanilla Guard force. I can't tell if the Drop Platoon Commander has 2-for-1 role slots because it's a... special, Drop-related thing, or if it has 2-for-1 role slots because you think regular Platoon Commanders should have 2-for-1 role slots. I can't tell if Powerlifter Sentinels are here because they're a special Drop thing, or because you really like Powerlifters and don't want to lose them.

    You clearly really care about Elysians (and drop troops in general), and want to give them their own, totally unique roster instead of tweaking Astra Militarum, but sometimes less really is more. Voice of Command is identical except for one swapped-in order (which is... what a regular regiment has?). Warlord Traits are identical except for one swapped-out trait (ditto). A whole bunch of Stratagems are just AM stratagems. Storm Troopers are just Militarum Tempestus with a new name and access to <REGIMENT>. What's there is great, but it's so hard to dig it out of the filler, and I can't see any reason why it couldn't be slimmed down into a more readable, efficient format. Is there really any value in DROP TROOPER SQUAD being a separate unit from INFANTRY SQUAD, when you can turn the latter into the former by giving them Aerial Drop and +1Ld? It feels like a Detachment Ability got turned into a whole army (and aren't Elysians all clad in carapace anyway?).


    So, since their first introduction in Imperial armour 3 Elysian go their own rooster of units. The first set of "regimental traits" were existing traits included in the old 3rd or 4th edition codex but the rest of the units had their own entry in the IA3 because of all the equipment difference between the normal IG and the drop troops. Like grey knight are to SM.
    Making them a supplement, or just a special regiment trait would allow drop troops to field leman russ, baneblades and all kind of tanks that never were included and would make Drop troops lose their uniqueness and step on the fluff. This is why we just went along with a full IA like book with full rooster and rules.

    We are aware of the redundancy of the units, but Drop troops are not regular guards, their basic rules, available weapons, some of their stats and points prices are different from regular guard.

    I kinda agree with the Drop platoon commander, we took some liberty inspired by the 9th edition codex space marines and their lieutenant. If the 9th edition IG codex was out it would be easier to work rules. We made it an HQ slot to free space in the crowded elite slot and gave a 1-2 per unit to allow alternate gameplay than the commander spam.
    The only official HQ available for Drop troops are Company commander and Lord commissar. with the rule of 3, the cheapness of the guard in general and the fact that the lord commissar is really not the most useful thing we tried to extend the available rooster by inspiring us from existing armies such at the GSC, SM or in some extend AM.

    For the power lifter (and all the back line support units) we included them to respect the regimental organization of a regiment. They never were included in the past elysian rules because it was more focused of battle roles I guess but they are included in the fluff and in the organization picture found in IA3. So we took the liberty to include them. Of course as they are support units, they don't have access to some of the specialized rules. They are more fluff nice addition that can be used for fun or narrative play.(We also dont want to see them disappear in legend)

    For the orders, they are the same as the one found in the Index: Force of the astra militarum from FW and we just added unique regimental order for each drop regiments.
    For warlord trait we didn't really have any idea so we just copy pasta
    The stratagems are actually pretty unique. In the actual AM codex the usable stratagems can be counted on one hand. The ones included in the PA greater good offer a little more variety, but the lack of tanks and artillery make the vast majority of the stratagems useless. So we had to steal here and there existing stuff and changed the key words or make new ones to be used on aircraft for example.

    Stormtrooper were included in Drop troops army from the beginning (old fluff) and are fully attached to drop regiments even in the new lore. To respect that we gave them the regiment key word to represent this. (same for aircraft who unlike normal AM regiments are fully integrated to drop regiments). So for fluff and really because we find GW's decision to separate everything stupid (a lot of our changes are because of that btw, glory to FW rule team) we included them fully into the regiment.

    Drop trooper squad don't get heavy weapons team, get access to demolition/breacher charge, get +1 ld, can drop and are 1pts more expensive than Infantry squad. It is enough difference to be separate. And making a full paragraph of explanation about all the changes to all unit in the codex if we made it a simple supplement would be harder imo than just making everything separate like it always was. (and again Elysian always were a whole army from the begining)

    For the carapace armour, only Harakony or heavy infantry drop regiment get access to them, Elysian always were 5+.

    Sorry if I disagree on almost everything haha but more than a detachment ability like imperial fist or catachan Elysian are like Grey knights. At base they are guards but the whole organization and equipment is different. And simply removing all the unique things to fit in a very limiting codex is not what we are trying to do. Death Korps of Krieg would fit better as a supplement because at their core they are a "standard" regiment wit ha few unique units and equipment. But Elysian on top of have different equipment also lose a lot of equipment and units that normal AM regiment get, and their close coordination with aircraft does not fit with anything present in the AM codex (yet).

    -------------------------------------------

    Jarms48 wrote:
    I agree with much of this. Though I understand what they're trying to do, this effort isn't just bringing back Elysians, but an attempt to let players use any kind of drop regiment. I see other regiments and appreciate seeing Harakoni Warhawks. We could say the same thing about GW releasing separate codexes for every famous Space Marine chapter.

    I was surprised to see so many 5+ save units, I was under the impression most of the named drop regiments had some form of carapace armour as standard. Obviously there's going to be non-carapace armoured drop regiments but there needs to be more distinction between which ones do and don't have it.

    I think there's also a lot of balancing issues with this. Take your Stormtrooper squads for example, they're pretty much Scions with a different name. They get an extra hot-shot lasgun, their hot-shot lasguns have been buffed to 24 inch range, they can now benefit from regiment traits instead of having to be taken in a separate detachment or miss out, and you've made them cheaper. If anything these guys should be 10 or 11 points per model.

    I don't see why Tauros vehicles have WS4+ when all other vehicles asides from walkers typically have WS6+. It's also weird that they have 2 attacks when sentinels only get 1.

    I don't like the idea of aerial drop Ogryns. They're claustrophobic and require convincing to just get into a standard transport. Could you imagine how they'd react being pushed out of a plane? Sure, you can do it current in game with a Valkyrie but that's more of an issue of game rules interaction.

    You'll need to also do a pass for editing. There's a lot in there that looks like it's just been copy-pasted. Engineers have hot-shot lasgun profiles but are armed with shotguns. Stormtrooper Command Squad mentions Veterans in the upgrade options. There's a lot of these instances.

    Please don't let our criticism dishearten you. I think the effort and professionalism is amazing.


    Elysian (and normal drop regiments) are 5+, in our codex the only ones who can get a 4+ are Harakony (with the carapace armour equpiment) or if you make a custom regiment to get the carapace armour equipment.
    You found a mistake thank you ! hot shot lasgun are staying at 18" range I probably made a copy paste error, will correct that immediately. For the +1 hotshot lasgun, we just think that a sergent beeing locked wit ha pistol and a chainsword is ridiculous, stupid, dumb, etc. Normal sergent can get their standard lasgun, so we took the liberty to give the stormtrooper sergeant the same thing.
    They are not technically cheaper, theyr are 8pts + weapons, so 9pts with a hotshot lasgun (same as codex ones). But because again GW (stupid) idea to change how points are counted in a squad they get cheaper if you buy them a special weapon because you dont have that 1pts tax from the hot shot lasgun included. But you are right, the fact that they are getting easy access to regiments doctrines might require a point hike.

    The tauros have WS4+ and 2A because FW and GW made their rules that way we are innocent for this one haha

    We included ogryn (and not bulgryn) because Drop ogryn is a cool and fun concept (and because we commissioned some minis to represent them). It is true that fluff wise they would fit in tight space (and there was a rule for that in the past but we disregard that because we are hypocrite who only care about the fluff when its in our favor gnarkgnark) I dont have excuse for including them, its just cool so we wanted some.

    Thank also for the editing mistakes (I am alone editing and can't see everything all the time) will have to check all that again.

    --------------------------------

     AegisFate wrote:
    Honestly speaking, as someone who's played Elysians through thick and thing, I get trying to make an overall Drop Troops supplement, but at the same time, there's a lot of legitimate bloat and cool ideas just thrown at the wall. Command Tauros is a solid idea, not so much a Command Sentinel. Making Scions a (regiment) keyword is also kind of meh from the perspective of how Scions already are laid out and it seems a disservice in some regards. Platoon Commanders and the like should also be an Elites slot, to mirror the existing Guard Codex instead of just being a cheaper HQ slot, although the ability to take two in a slot is a neat idea, even if it doesn't actually resolve the real guard issue in lacking Platoons to justify their existence. Whilst the idea of bikers and their associated leader is pretty cool, its also blatantly just snagging existing rules from GSC.

    Troops are okay, although I'd prefer Breacher Charges personally as they appeared in the FW Index of yesteryear. Elites slot is also sort of bloated, and there's an extraneous Tactical Air Controller datasheet just occupying an entire page. Drop Ogryn are cool, but its in the lore that Ogryn don't like tight spaces, and I'd have to agree with Jarms48 that its just not really an interesting idea. Techpriest and servitors seems less likely to be in a aggressive drop trooper regiment as well. Fast Attack has some extra units that also don't seem to have much of a role such as the Forward Recon Squad, being a source of snipers rifles in cloaks in an army with a glut of options for sniper rifles, up to and including the previous iteration of the Elysian Sniper Team.

    I think I have to speak more specifically on the Tauros as its implemented. Previously it gained the Invulnerable save for moving at least 10", which wasn't copy pasted correctly in one specific instance. Honestly, that setup fits far more with being fast and mobile instead of forcing units to advance. It also cripples using anything but HKM or the titular Tauros Grenade Launcher in any reasonable capacity beyond Tokyo Drifting and doing little else. Medic Tauros is a neat idea, but there needs to be some drastic editing for clarity on the specific healing/bring back ability. The Venator having the ability to advance and shoot is nice, but I think it'd still be preferable to just move X amount for Y bonus. Bikes still have my sort of same issue as I noted in the HQ selection, they're clearly lifted from GSC, and not in a particularly interesting way either, being more limited in gear options overall.

    The Power Lifter is just..... it doesn't belong. Its inherently a backline unit meant for depots and the like, not for regular combat with a drop trooper regiment, particularly as its entire role is to move heavy boxes from place A to place B. Its inclusion seems more of a pet add on. Support Sentinel I understand a little bit more, but it seems extraneous as well. Now onto the fun unit. The Drop Weapons Platform. Well then, this is a unit. First off, the Tarantula already exists and was available for Elysians. Second off, it doesn't fit with the overall feel. This is clearly a heavier piece of artillery that's set up and manned, and less something quickly airdroppable as need-be in combat. Its also trying to be the Saber Defense Platform with bigger guns.

    To be honest, the Aquilla and Arvus transports don't fit in as well, as they're definitely more fitting for inquisitorial and mundane sorts of options, or could just be present as they are as a flyer selection. I know exactly what you were going for with the Tauros Maximus and I applaud it, but its role is extremely narrow for what it can transport. The Trojan Support Vehicle just seems wrong to be present, considering its a full on chimera hull. Flyer selection seems to be average, adding the specific Aeronautica Imperialis Thunderbolt variant's a decent idea. I don't agree with Roving Gunship on the Vendetta as much though, as the Vendetta still has full transport capacity in addition to its weapons payload. There does have to be a downside in some regards. Tarantula as a fortification fits with how it was adjusted in the Compendium. I'm sort of just going to avoid D-99 as a whole because its a detachment from a very specific conflict in a very specific book and not as relevant.

    As far as wargear options go, Magnoculars are a dead upgrade of minimal value, especially considering how the board size has changed in 9th overall, Smoke Launchers are consistent with how they are in the current rules, but likely to change when the next Guard Codex comes to match more with how they're presented in the Marine book, Ballistic Shields seems more like someone's fan favorite idea to make their guardsman super tough. Flare/Chaff is a neat idea, but it suffers especially considering what's a 'Missile weapon' is not wholly well defined in all instances.

    I could get into it a lot with points costs, but there's not much to say beyond the value of innate deepstrike and a +1 Ld is more befitting a regimental trait. Also Drop Trooper squads are literally a non option outside of tryign to be fun, as for 1.5pts more per model, you get two specials per five, 4+ armor and 3+ BS. A bargain at that price.

    Going onto the actual regimental traits, there's no option but Elysian here, and that's outside of my bias for Elysian stronk and glorious. Phantine requires heavy investment in aircraft to have any sort of payoff, Harakoni literally just grants wargear access and 6+ shrugs on planes, Cascadia is such a nothing burger beyond the always on cover save no matter what. Pathfinders has one extremely specific niche and if I didn't say 'Punisher Vulture Spam' I'd be lying. Harlots is just bad. Great you can always wound everything on a 4+ in melee and get extra AP on sixes to wound in melee, but why the hell are you in melee to begin with? The custom regimental traits range from 'literally just remake this regiment but better' in the case of Harakoni or just duplicate an existing regiment. Also there's some busted options ripe for abuse and some extremely, extremely, extremely trap options such as Honor Paint.

    I'd also agree with RevlidRas that its more fitting to prepare it as material on top of the existing rules framework instead of outright trying to make everything unique.


    For the platoon commander and stormtrooper I talked about it earlier in the comment.
    You don't like a command sentinel ? We wanted to allow different play style than just the tauros (and because it is harder to get your hands on) so we also included the sentinel.
    For the GSC units the rules exist and could perfectly fit in an AM army so we stole it because we thought it was a cool concept.

    The old breacher charge is made to destroy building, and it was 20pts for a thing that would fail most of the time, and when it doesnt fail it dont do any significant damage. So we reworked that. How exactly would you make it ? just like it was in the index ?

    for the Tactical Air Controller, some peoples wanted to change the name of the officer of the fleet so it because that. For the full page I will put a picture under it. and it is to not separate the servitor and the techpriest.
    for the presence of rear and and logistic units I talked about it earlier too its just for fluff and for different play style.

    Why nobody like Drop ogryn !...

    I kinda agree about the Forward Recon Squad taking the space of the sniper team, might have to rework it. But the advantage of sniper squad is their cheapness.

    The tauros unfortunately are another victim of GW rule team. We also agree that the old rule was better but now you must advance to get the 5++. Its stupid but we try to not break too much what existing rules are. We brought back the venator targeting array to keep the venator usefull because again GW removed it because MuSt SiMpLiFy AnD MaKe ThE gAmEs FaStEr ! (sorry sorry lets focus)

    For the Medic Tauros what would be your editing to clarify ? will take a look again but if you have any idea feel free to tell us.

    For the bikes, same as the HQ we are already implementing a lot of unique things so we tried to not go too crazy with them. Might need to rework too.

    For the arvus, aquila and other support units as I said, its a gameplay preference and fluff. They are deployed in the rear as support for the regiment but can always be used in emergency. and because GW removed the Air wing detachment, we are very limited in slot for Aircraft so wwe moved the dedicated stuff as dedicated transport (valk and sky talon used to be one anyway). The fact that GW is removing squadrons for aircraft also limit everything. This is why we move things in dedicated transport but removed the ability to squadron in exchange.

    The Tauros maximus is like the artillery tractor thing from Dkok. A Small fast transport very limited but cheap. It again more for gameplay variation.

    For the roving gunship for the vendetta we just put it there to fit wit hthe other valkyries. There is not reason why it should have it. Also we made the vendetta 20pts more expensive than the codex one to compensate for the rovering gunship.
    The rest of the aircrafts are mostly the same, we just brought back all the lost equipment that GW unilaterally decided to throw away while making them in line with 9th edition rules (missile racks).

    Sad that you don't line D-99, its what made me start a real elysian army and not beeing able to play them was really a big pain. At first I just made it like it was, overpriced units that kill nids, but peoples said it would be unfair to nids player and be pretty useless against anything else, so we changed them to make them in line with what Deathwatch is. They are still expensive tho haha

    I don't agree with the magnocular, board size change is not mandatory anyway so we think it still has a nich role (sniper as a whole is mostly useless anyway).
    Smoke launcher will need a change when the new codex drop. But the AM codex was designer with the ability to have a tons of CP. Now that its rarer to have a lot we are keeping it like that until we see what happen to the codex. And a lot will have to be changed and balance when it arrive.

    I defined Missile weapons in the Wargear section, like SM have in their codex. Do you think I miss something in the explanation ?

    in the previous comment some peoples raised the concern about the price of the stormtroopers, might have to rise it for balance. But a lot of pricing will need balance anyway. This is why we are looking for peoples to test everything. Because what is on paper and what can actually be done is two different things. And most of our tests were not very in the favor of our codex (except against some 8th edition codex where we got some wins)

    If you have any suggestion for the regimental traits feel free to share ! it was hard to think about balanced yet fluffy things and we might have thought too much about balance. You say Hell Harlot are useless yet some have told me that spamming cheap infantry that are good in CC is not balanced. SO its hard to really know if its good or bad.

    What broken combo do you see in the custom regiment ? If you have time at some point can you list everything you think is broken so we can review ?

    -----------------------------------

    Anyway thank you all for the feedback. Will talk about what got raised here. And feel free to show anything that is not balance, tell us how you would balance it or any changes that might be useful for the codex as it is.
    a normal supplement is not what we are looking for and as the AM codex is right now, would not be viable. Playing with the index already feels like playing like a small white dwarf supplement and if you succed to win in a competitive setting with it you will have to teach me because I have no clue.

    Its still a big WIP so change will happen. But we might be very stubborn about the core concept so I apologize if I dismiss a lot of criticism about some of the core things.

    Have a great day and hope to see more of your comments !

    This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/04/20 20:47:38


     
       
    Made in gb
    Regular Dakkanaut




    Samyueru wrote:
    Its still a big WIP so change will happen. But we might be very stubborn about the core concept so I apologize if I dismiss a lot of criticism about some of the core things.
    No need to apologize, this is clearly something you've put a lot of work into. My feedback might not be welcome, but I do hope it's useful.

    Samyueru wrote:
    So, since their first introduction in Imperial armour 3 Elysian go their own rooster of units. The first set of "regimental traits" were existing traits included in the old 3rd or 4th edition codex but the rest of the units had their own entry in the IA3 because of all the equipment difference between the normal IG and the drop troops. Like grey knight are to SM.
    Making them a supplement, or just a special regiment trait would allow drop troops to field leman russ, baneblades and all kind of tanks that never were included and would make Drop troops lose their uniqueness and step on the fluff. This is why we just went along with a full IA like book with full rooster and rules.
    I would probably point to Deathwatch as a better comparison than Grey Knights - Deathwatch have different squad formations, different equipment, different Stratagems, different Detachment abilities, different army restrictions, different objectives, you can upgrade units to have different points costs, etc, etc. Despite this, Deathwatch heavily reference the core Space Marine rules, adding outright new units only as necessary. Aside from named special characters, the only datasheets in the Deathwatch book are 1 unique option each in HQ, Troops, Elites, Fast Attack, and Flyers, none of which could be easily duplicated using existing Adeptus Astartes datasheets.

    I actually took a crack at filtering out the appropriate Drop Troops units in this post. Easily the clunkiest translations are the Sniper Squads (because you have to add +1BS) and the Scout/Drop Sentinels (because you have to get specific about the equipment options). Everything else just... slips right in, honestly, and inappropriate units are easy to filter. If points costs are an issue you don't feel you can balance purely using restrictions on listbuilding... you don't have to. Deathwatch and Death Guard both introduced optional points/Power Rating cost increases for units. "All INFANTRY SQUADS in DROP TROOPS Detachments cost +10pts" or "any INFANTRY SQUAD that does not include a Heavy Weapons Team can be upgraded to DROP TROOPS (+1 Power Rating)" is just something you can say, now.

    Not including named special characters and access to the Elysian Weapons Lists, here are a list of the genuinely distinct, Drop Troops-only units in this codex:
  • HQ - Ground Scanner Officer: This guy used to be available to vanilla Guard, then he fell off the edge of Forge World. Now he's back, I guess?
  • HQ - Recon Platoon Leader: Jackal Alphus is here, and... hanging around Drop Troops, for some reason?
  • HQ - Sentinel/Tauros Command Vehicle: Actually pretty cool and unique, a good example of what might be DROP TROOPS exclusive. Hell, I'd welcome the SCV as a universal Astra Militarum add-on, but it's fine as an exclusive.
  • Elites - Combat Engineers: Just Veterans, but with a specific anti-cover rule, except Veterans are also in this codex... and these guys also get Terminator Armour Shields for some reason??
  • Elites - Sniper Squads: These work as a unique unit distinct from Heavy Weapons Squads, though they remain fairly uninspiring. I don't know why they'd need to be specifically Drop Troops, especially when the only Drop Troops sniper models we ever got certainly weren't wearing camo cloaks, but it's fine.
  • Fast Attack - Forward Recon Squad: Again, neat idea, but has little to tie it to Drop Troops specifically; it feels more Tallarn than anything else, given camo cloaks are what separate this from a Special Weapons Squad. Also no idea why it's in Fast Attack.
  • Fast Attack - Recon Bike Squad: Rough Riders, but they're an Atalan Jackals copy-paste. Not wholly convinced these couldn't/shouldn't be a "generic" option, but sure, if you wanted to use this codex to flesh out the groundbound/advance drop half of the Drop Troops forces, that'd be cool. I'm not convinced it does, at the moment; there's nothing like teleport homers for having "spotters" on the ground, for example.
  • Fast Attack - Tauros: This is currently available to vanilla Guard, but it works as Drop Troops specific, honestly.

  • So at most this codex offers 4 HQs, 2 Elites, and 3 Fast Attack units that are genuinely distinct. Everything else is a reframing of an existing unit. That's not a problem! It's a good thing. It's a strength you should use, instead of squandering it.

    Samyueru wrote:
    I kinda agree with the Drop platoon commander, we took some liberty inspired by the 9th edition codex space marines and their lieutenant. If the 9th edition IG codex was out it would be easier to work rules. We made it an HQ slot to free space in the crowded elite slot and gave a 1-2 per unit to allow alternate gameplay than the commander spam.
    The only official HQ available for Drop troops are Company commander and Lord commissar. with the rule of 3, the cheapness of the guard in general and the fact that the lord commissar is really not the most useful thing we tried to extend the available rooster by inspiring us from existing armies such at the GSC, SM or in some extend AM.
    That's one of the issues caused by this being a full codex rather than a supplement; I can't tell which changes are part of this being Drop Troops rather than Astra Militarum, and which changes are because you disagree with the current points costs/abilities/Battlefield role of a given unit. This will only become more confusing as errata and updates occur for Astra Militarum.

    For example, Tempestus Scions are identical to Stormtroopers in almost every way. Aside from using Elysian Special Weapon lists, the only difference is that Stormtroopers have +1Ld, and the Sergeant has -1WS compared to a Tempestor. Despite this, the Stormtroopers cost 8pts/model, while Scions cost 9pts/model. Is that because Drop Troops are meant to get Stormtroopers at a discount compared to Astra Militarum? Is that because you think Tempestus Scions are too expensive, so you're giving them a discount here? Or is it because you wrote this back when Tempestus Scions were less expensive, and the cost corresponded? I don't know. I can't possibly know. Is the Recon Platoon Leader a Drop Troops unit because the Drop Troops really needed a Jackal Alphus clone, specifically? Or is the Jackal Alphus just a unit you think the ASTRA MILITARUM should have, so you put him in this book as a general addition? Should I judge him as an exclusive or not? I don't know. Is a Tactical Air Controller meant to stack with an Officer of the Fleet in another Detachment? Probably not, but I don't know.

    This question doesn't even come up if Stormtroopers are handled by saying "give TEMPESTUS SCIONS the DROP TROOPS keyword". It's why Games Workshop doesn't have to release a separate errata each time a points cost changes in Space Marines for every single Space Marine Chapter supplement; they're all referencing a single united codex and a single united set of rules and points costs - and most crucially, for a reader and player, a single united set of expectations.

    This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2021/04/21 03:02:42


     
       
    Made in us
    Pewling Menial





    Superior, Wisconsin

    Revlid honestly has the right of it in there's only a few minor differences that can be done by going 'X unit can take Y upgrades but not Z upgrades' and it'll fit the flavor just fine. Functionally speaking they're not that doctrinally different at their core from standard Guard to justify the Grey Knight Treatment(tm). At its core, the army still functions as a guard army, just with an emphasis on mobility and deep striking, which can be provided by what the Marine books did, which is 'X Units can be taken with added Y Options along with Z Regimental Specific Units.' I'll do a couple basic thought experiments below to illustrate I think how you could handle options.
    A DROP TROOPS Unit with the HARAKONI WARHAWKS Keyword may elect to take Carapace Armor at +xpts per model, or +ypts for character models.
    A DROP TROOPS Unit with the ELYSIAN DROP TROOPS Keyword instead uses the Elysian Drop Troops Weapon List for all of its applicable upgrade, replacing as required, e.g. 'A Platoon Commander can replace their Laspistol with a weapon from the Ranged Weapons list' being changed to 'A Platoon Commander can replace their Laspistol with a weapon from the Elysian Ranged Weapons list' Additionally, both Infantry Squads and Veteran Squads may additionally take a Demolition/Breacher charge.

    As an added aside, honestly, just rip off the band-aid and allow heavy weapons into infantry squads. It made sense when Platoons were still a thing and you had focused squads, but considering the Platoon's literally spread across three different roster classifications now, might as well allow it. Won't hurt anything too much.

    For Custom Regimental Traits, Counter Expert and Gunship Dance are two highly potent standout ones to me that scream to be taken, especially as innate overwatch and getting RR1s to hit on a 3+ hitting Vendetta with six Lascannons reminds me of a very distinct dark time where it was 130pts and a fast skimmer. Heavy Infantry and Leaf on the Wind also just do most of what Harakoni does, but better, albeit only on Aircraft for the 5+ wound shrug. I'm also not sure if White of their Eyes allows you to just fire Overwatch as normal or if it allows you to just shoot super awesomer no matter what when using the stratagem. Honestly I'd just dump the entire section into the garbage. Also padding out content by using some OC regiments isn't a bad idea, but it provides more room for abuse.

    Also an added comment, the Phantine Air Corps actually isn't a Drop Trooper Regiment, and is instead an entirely fighter/bomber based force and seems less applicable here.

    There is no Overkill, only "Open Fire," and "I need to Reload."
    When someone tries to kill you, just kill them right back. 
       
    Made in au
    Regular Dakkanaut




     AegisFate wrote:

    As an added aside, honestly, just rip off the band-aid and allow heavy weapons into infantry squads. It made sense when Platoons were still a thing and you had focused squads, but considering the Platoon's literally spread across three different roster classifications now, might as well allow it. Won't hurt anything too much.


    Definitely, it even makes historical sense to add them. In WW2 US paratroopers had .30 & .50 cal MG's, mortars, 57mm AT guns, and bazookas dropped with them. The British had gliders that could transport Tetrarch Light Tanks or 2 Universal Carriers.

    So limiting the weapons Elysians get dropped with doesn't make much sense to me. What should be limited is the vehicles. I'd definitely get rid of the Trojan from this codex, it doesn't fit the theme. The only vehicles they should have is sentinels, tauros's, and flyers.

    The Drop Weapons Platform should be a Fortification. Basically equating to the old chimera and leman russ turret emplacements.

    Sentinel Powerlifters I'm torn on, it can make some sense to have these lighter support vehicles dropped in to assist with making and maintaining forward operating bases. Though I would change it's rules. Get rid of the Scout Vehicle ability and replace it with the Trojan's Support Vehicle ability. That would make it much more thematic not just for this codex but Guard as a whole.

    I do think all of those recon units should be pulled from the codex. They're better served for a potential "Codex: Light Infantry Regiment". These drop troops already have tons of options for scouting their own infantry, both sentinels and tauros', and more importantly aircraft.

    If you do want some kind of heavier weapons to fill up heavy support. Give them access to heavy mortars and thudd guns. They would be light enough to be airdropped and could be towed by tauros vehicles into position.

    If you want another dedicated transport to replace the Trojan. Then the Centaur would work, using my British glider example above. The Centaur literally being the 40k version of the universal carrier. Just increase its transport capacity to 6.

    I’d also recommend you do up a FAQ to explain what you expect to change in the Guard codex to go in line with this book.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/21 02:09:17


     
       
    Made in us
    Confessor Of Sins




    Tacoma, WA, USA

    To add to what others are saying, the overlap with Astra Militarum is so strong here that it would be better approached as a Codex Supplement or maybe an Army of Renown. Both of those allow you to limit the units taken and give additional bonuses. A supplement allows addition of new units.

    I also look at all the additional rules added to nearly every unit (Aerial Drop on nearly everyone and Iron Discipline on all the officers) and think Regimental Doctrine.

    Elysian: Drop Troops
    Units with this doctrine deploying from Strategic Reserves may be deployed anywhere on the battlefield more than 9" away from enemy models instead of within 6" of a board edge. They otherwise follow all normal rules for Strategic Reserves. In addition, they may re-roll failed Morale test while within 6" of a Elysian Officer. Add a bunch of rules about what units cannot be in a Drop Troops regiment.

    Other places you can look at expanding options instead of creating units. The Sniper Squad has a unique Sniper Rifle, so it can easily be an additional weapon for a Special Weapon Squad.
  • Heavy Sniper Rifle: R 36", Heavy 1, S 4, AP -1, D 1, Abilities: Each time you select a target for this weapon, you can ignore the Look Out, Sir rule and gains a +1 to Hit rolls. If you roll a wound roll of 6+ for this weapon, it inflicts a mortal wound in addition to its normal damage.

  • Follow that format and you don't really have to worry much about the changes made to the army when the 9th Edition codex is released because your supplement references the codex rather than matching it.
       
    Made in us
    Fresh-Faced New User




    RevlidRas wrote:
    I would probably point to Deathwatch as a better comparison than Grey Knights - Deathwatch have different squad formations, different equipment, different Stratagems, different Detachment abilities, different army restrictions, different objectives, you can upgrade units to have different points costs, etc, etc. Despite this, Deathwatch heavily reference the core Space Marine rules, adding outright new units only as necessary. Aside from named special characters, the only datasheets in the Deathwatch book are 1 unique option each in HQ, Troops, Elites, Fast Attack, and Flyers, none of which could be easily duplicated using existing Adeptus Astartes datasheets.

    I actually took a crack at filtering out the appropriate Drop Troops units in this post. Easily the clunkiest translations are the Sniper Squads (because you have to add +1BS) and the Scout/Drop Sentinels (because you have to get specific about the equipment options). Everything else just... slips right in, honestly, and inappropriate units are easy to filter. If points costs are an issue you don't feel you can balance purely using restrictions on listbuilding... you don't have to. Deathwatch and Death Guard both introduced optional points/Power Rating cost increases for units. "All INFANTRY SQUADS in DROP TROOPS Detachments cost +10pts" or "any INFANTRY SQUAD that does not include a Heavy Weapons Team can be upgraded to DROP TROOPS (+1 Power Rating)" is just something you can say, now.


    As the AM codex is if we made a simple supplement to it there are only 15 units we could have access to (if we respect the actual fluff and the past rules). We are making this codex to not be locked as a simple Index army like we are now with the very minimum of unit because of a lack of past support that gave us a lack of unique models. And as I said earlier, the number of stratagems that are usable by drop troops as they are (and as they would be if wwe included them in the AM codex) can be counted on a hand. Everything is related to tanks, artillery or are simply useless because of the play style of Drop troops. And if we have to filter 70% of the codex to play its not a good thing. Deathwatch used to have a very restricted rooster (witch was very ridicule) and now it changed, but they are still SM anyway and have access to everything SM has. Drop troops are not simple AM, they don't fill the same role, and only share the basic military structure. This is why with this codex we are trying to continue this separation and we try to fill the gap of unit by including IRL things used by Drop regiments around the world.

    RevlidRas wrote:
    Not including named special characters and access to the Elysian Weapons Lists, here are a list of the genuinely distinct, Drop Troops-only units in this codex:
  • HQ - Ground Scanner Officer: This guy used to be available to vanilla Guard, then he fell off the edge of Forge World. Now he's back, I guess?
  • HQ - Recon Platoon Leader: Jackal Alphus is here, and... hanging around Drop Troops, for some reason?
  • HQ - Sentinel/Tauros Command Vehicle: Actually pretty cool and unique, a good example of what might be DROP TROOPS exclusive. Hell, I'd welcome the SCV as a universal Astra Militarum add-on, but it's fine as an exclusive.
  • Elites - Combat Engineers: Just Veterans, but with a specific anti-cover rule, except Veterans are also in this codex... and these guys also get Terminator Armour Shields for some reason??
  • Elites - Sniper Squads: These work as a unique unit distinct from Heavy Weapons Squads, though they remain fairly uninspiring. I don't know why they'd need to be specifically Drop Troops, especially when the only Drop Troops sniper models we ever got certainly weren't wearing camo cloaks, but it's fine.
  • Fast Attack - Forward Recon Squad: Again, neat idea, but has little to tie it to Drop Troops specifically; it feels more Tallarn than anything else, given camo cloaks are what separate this from a Special Weapons Squad. Also no idea why it's in Fast Attack.
  • Fast Attack - Recon Bike Squad: Rough Riders, but they're an Atalan Jackals copy-paste. Not wholly convinced these couldn't/shouldn't be a "generic" option, but sure, if you wanted to use this codex to flesh out the groundbound/advance drop half of the Drop Troops forces, that'd be cool. I'm not convinced it does, at the moment; there's nothing like teleport homers for having "spotters" on the ground, for example.
  • Fast Attack - Tauros: This is currently available to vanilla Guard, but it works as Drop Troops specific, honestly.

  • So at most this codex offers 4 HQs, 2 Elites, and 3 Fast Attack units that are genuinely distinct. Everything else is a reframing of an existing unit. That's not a problem! It's a good thing. It's a strength you should use, instead of squandering it.


    All special units that we made are inspired by existing things in the lore or IRL. We made some cheap copy past and tried to be light on real uniqueness rule wise to try to stay balanced and not having peoples cry OP!. Some things will need rework because of their lack of proper character but all new things fills a gap that could have been included by FW if they had gave us more things. We also have commissioned model and some 3rd party store have released unique Drop troops style army. So we decided to include their unique models to justify their existence (and because they are cool).
    If you have any idea how to make those new unit better without making them OP feel free to tell us, we really tried to not go overboard.
    Also the Tauros is an Elysian model and was made for them (pilot and gunner are elysian), AM just get access to it for some reason.

    RevlidRas wrote:
    That's one of the issues caused by this being a full codex rather than a supplement; I can't tell which changes are part of this being Drop Troops rather than Astra Militarum, and which changes are because you disagree with the current points costs/abilities/Battlefield role of a given unit. This will only become more confusing as errata and updates occur for Astra Militarum.


    We will update everything everytime AM stuff come out so this shouldn't be a big problem. Most of original FW models retains the rules as they were post 9th edition. GW purged everything from FW models so this is were the most changes occur. They got rid of unique rules, all aircrafts equipment and changed some stuff in a ridiculous way (changed to Tauros galvanic motors). The only GW model included in our codex would be the Valk, commissar, tech priest and a few other. But no big changes (except name may be).

    RevlidRas wrote:
    For example, Tempestus Scions are identical to Stormtroopers in almost every way. Aside from using Elysian Special Weapon lists, the only difference is that Stormtroopers have +1Ld, and the Sergeant has -1WS compared to a Tempestor. Despite this, the Stormtroopers cost 8pts/model, while Scions cost 9pts/model. Is that because Drop Troops are meant to get Stormtroopers at a discount compared to Astra Militarum? Is that because you think Tempestus Scions are too expensive, so you're giving them a discount here? Or is it because you wrote this back when Tempestus Scions were less expensive, and the cost corresponded? I don't know. I can't possibly know. Is the Recon Platoon Leader a Drop Troops unit because the Drop Troops really needed a Jackal Alphus clone, specifically? Or is the Jackal Alphus just a unit you think the ASTRA MILITARUM should have, so you put him in this book as a general addition? Should I judge him as an exclusive or not? I don't know. Is a Tactical Air Controller meant to stack with an Officer of the Fleet in another Detachment? Probably not, but I don't know.

    This question doesn't even come up if Stormtroopers are handled by saying "give TEMPESTUS SCIONS the DROP TROOPS keyword". It's why Games Workshop doesn't have to release a separate errata each time a points cost changes in Space Marines for every single Space Marine Chapter supplement; they're all referencing a single united codex and a single united set of rules and points costs - and most crucially, for a reader and player, a single united set of expectations.


    Our stormtrooper are not scions because we have unique models (thanks to a 3d designer). Their rules is separate from scion by including some elysian equipment like the demolition charge and some equipment that we asked to be designed. as I said in my over comment our stormtroopers cost is the same as scions. Its because we separate the weapon cost from the base model its is 8pts + 1pts for the hslg, so same as the codex scions. The only point difference appearing is when you pay for a special weapons. Scion cost 9pts because they pay the htlg tax so their special weapon guy will cost 1 more pts than ours. But this is GW dumb way of counting unit costs in 9th edition.
    You have to think about this codex as its own entity and not as a supplement to AM codex. AM might not need a Jackal Alphus clone or bikers, but Drop troops on the field migh need a fast moving light unit to do recon or harass from the side. If you just focus on this document as its own it will be easier to understand the place of the new units. Forward recon squad are what their name apply, an infantry unit that do recon before the rest of the army deploy. Engineer (kinda a copy paste of krieg ones) are here to take care of potential fortifications and the enemy within. The ballistic shield used to be part of a breacher squad for boarding action or enclosed space combat but after a vote they decided to change it to engineer. The shield is still there because it is useful when you try to attack an enemy position. And its not more broken than what SM can get but it might need some change if it is really a problem.

    =======================================

     AegisFate wrote:
    For Custom Regimental Traits, Counter Expert and Gunship Dance are two highly potent standout ones to me that scream to be taken, especially as innate overwatch and getting RR1s to hit on a 3+ hitting Vendetta with six Lascannons reminds me of a very distinct dark time where it was 130pts and a fast skimmer. Heavy Infantry and Leaf on the Wind also just do most of what Harakoni does, but better, albeit only on Aircraft for the 5+ wound shrug. I'm also not sure if White of their Eyes allows you to just fire Overwatch as normal or if it allows you to just shoot super awesomer no matter what when using the stratagem. Honestly I'd just dump the entire section into the garbage. Also padding out content by using some OC regiments isn't a bad idea, but it provides more room for abuse.
    Thank you for the feedback on the potential broken stuff, I have to sleep so I can't go over it in detail but I will do tomorrow. If you find other specific thing just tell me and WE can talk about it later

    =======================================

    When 8th edition dropped we got an Index to represent elysian drop troops. It is basically a supplement like you ask us to do. Basic regimental rule, one order, the few unique units, the list of weapons we can have and the list of units we have to get from the main codex.
    If the AM codex was designed to represent every style of gameplay it wouldn't be a problem. But like I said earlier, there is nothing for aircrafts focused army in the codex, the relics are nice but except the one for more command points they are kinda pointless. The warlord traits are basic. The stratagems are almost all tank focused. Drop troops are not just drop and fast moving, its surgical strike, it is air support, air cavalry, everything that the guard is not.
    We have been playing with an obsolete index against 8th edition codex, and now we play against 9th edition codex and it is really not a good experience. A simple supplement is not enough to compensate for the vast difference in play style and design of Drop troops and AM. If the new AM codex develop more playstyle than the tank focusted a supplement might become a simple option, but as the AM codex is, this is not what we are looking and working for.

    A saw the things you all proposed and I like it but it would overly complicate things too. You buy the AM codex but can only use a few pages of it, and in those pages you have to remove some lines and add some more. The advantage of our codex is that you don't need to look at anything else than the rule book and the fandex.

    Thank you again for the feedback and sorry for beeing suborn with our view but there are too much things lacking in the AM codex to want to use it for anything.
       
    Made in gb
    Regular Dakkanaut




    Samyueru wrote:

    Thank you again for the feedback and sorry for beeing suborn with our view but there are too much things lacking in the AM codex to want to use it for anything.
    It's your project, and you've put a lot of work into it. I'm don't think it's a good decision to avoid focusing on what actually makes Drop Troops unique, instead of obscuring it with a massive wave of reprinted datasheets and abilities, but it's ultimately your call. There's no point pushing on that point if you're not interested.

    For what it's worth, I don't think adding breacher charges to the special weapons list calls for a new Tempestus Scions datasheet, any more than adding Heavy Flamers to the heavy weapons list means Blood Angels need new datasheets for all their units.
       
    Made in ch
    Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





    RevlidRas wrote:
    Samyueru wrote:

    Thank you again for the feedback and sorry for beeing suborn with our view but there are too much things lacking in the AM codex to want to use it for anything.
    It's your project, and you've put a lot of work into it. I'm don't think it's a good decision to avoid focusing on what actually makes Drop Troops unique, instead of obscuring it with a massive wave of reprinted datasheets and abilities, but it's ultimately your call. There's no point pushing on that point if you're not interested.

    For what it's worth, I don't think adding breacher charges to the special weapons list calls for a new Tempestus Scions datasheet, any more than adding Heavy Flamers to the heavy weapons list means Blood Angels need new datasheets for all their units.


    For those people that actually played armies like the elysians or R&H for that matter, fundamentally diffrent options and sheets aswell as tie in abilities are kinda important.

    It's the same reason whenever someone suggest to "Just use the AM dex for R&H" is a nonsense suggestion in lieu of the spirit of the faction.

    https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
    A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

     Daedalus81 wrote:

    In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

     
       
    Made in us
    Confessor Of Sins




    Tacoma, WA, USA

    Not Online!!! wrote:
    RevlidRas wrote:
    Samyueru wrote:

    Thank you again for the feedback and sorry for beeing suborn with our view but there are too much things lacking in the AM codex to want to use it for anything.
    It's your project, and you've put a lot of work into it. I'm don't think it's a good decision to avoid focusing on what actually makes Drop Troops unique, instead of obscuring it with a massive wave of reprinted datasheets and abilities, but it's ultimately your call. There's no point pushing on that point if you're not interested.

    For what it's worth, I don't think adding breacher charges to the special weapons list calls for a new Tempestus Scions datasheet, any more than adding Heavy Flamers to the heavy weapons list means Blood Angels need new datasheets for all their units.


    For those people that actually played armies like the elysians or R&H for that matter, fundamentally diffrent options and sheets aswell as tie in abilities are kinda important.

    It's the same reason whenever someone suggest to "Just use the AM dex for R&H" is a nonsense suggestion in lieu of the spirit of the faction.
    I think there is a lot of different between saying an make Drop Troops a Supplement, which means an Elysian Infantry Squad is an Astra Militarum Infantry squad with a Regimental Trait that allows them to deep strike as opposed to saying "play R&H with the AM trait". There are many units in the R&H list that have no counterpart in AM. I don't think you can really say that for many Elysian units. They are mostly Forge World units available in either their rules or Legends. For those that aren't otherwise available, supplements do exist. As for units you can't use, there are more than a few units in Codex Space Marine that you can't put in a Space Wolves army.

    Still, how they want to make their fandex is update to them. I just see so many fandexes that dash past the point of updating the rules into the wishlist phase of army construction. I think that makes them much less acceptable even to the players willing to entertain the possibility of using them.
       
    Made in gb
    Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant





    England

    IF FEEDBACK COULD BE GIVEN IGNORING ANY VIEWS ON WHETHER THIS SHOULD OR SHOULD NOT BE A SUPPLEMENT IT WOULD BE APPRECIATED.
    Thank you.

    See that stuff above? Completely true. All of it, every single word. Stands to reason. 
       
    Made in us
    Confessor Of Sins




    Tacoma, WA, USA

    Yelling when you don’t like the feedback is not likely to get you a better response.
       
    Made in gb
    Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant





    England

     alextroy wrote:
    Yelling when you don’t like the feedback is not likely to get you a better response.


    The caps were not intended to imply anger; merely to catch the attention of users.

    See that stuff above? Completely true. All of it, every single word. Stands to reason. 
       
    Made in ro
    Regular Dakkanaut




    Alright, other, more local comments:
  • When do you trigger flare/chaff launchers? I'd recommend copying the wording from smoke launchers, but as it stands I don't know when I activate them; when I'm hit?
  • Infra-red targeting affects the "cover save", which doesn't exist anymore, and limits it to a +1, which is all cover gives anyway. I'd suggest copying the wording from the Genestealer Cults augur array.
  • The Tauros Medicae is the most powerful and unpredictable "medic" unit in the game that I'm aware of. It can potentially restore 3 models per round, where most medics get D3 wounds or 1 restored model (and some don't even get the latter). However, it only works on a 4+, meaning it has a bigger swing than an Ork Painboy. Doesn't really feel appropriate.
  • Tech-Priest Enginseer and Servitors don't have the Drop Troops keyword, and so can't be included in this army.
  • It's unclear whether Tactical Air Controller's Air Raid Requested ability can be used in the same turn as the Officer of the Fleet's Air Raid Requested ability.
  • Unclear what "bonus" means for Elysia's Vehicle Order. It can't re-roll? No positive modifiers? No Stratagems? Can it use positive modifiers to cancel out negative modifiers to neutral, or is it stuck with those?
  • Cascadia's Order references the XENOS keyword, which doesn't exist.[/list]
  • I can't think of a single situation in which I'd want to use the Hell Harlots Order. Drop Troops don't even have Priests, what am I going to do with re-rolling hit rolls?
  • Harakon's Warlord Trait doesn't account for the Warlord being in a VEHICLE, as the Valhallan equivalent does. I appreciate they're less tough than the Leman Russ, but still.
  • Are tactical bombs meant to be once per battle, or not? The phrasing is confusing.


  • Not Online!!! wrote:
    For those people that actually played armies like the elysians or R&H for that matter, fundamentally diffrent options and sheets aswell as tie in abilities are kinda important.

    It's the same reason whenever someone suggest to "Just use the AM dex for R&H" is a nonsense suggestion in lieu of the spirit of the faction.
    Alright, I feel I just need to clarify my stance here, since some responses like this one suggest that I might have communicated my thoughts poorly.

    I'm not arguing that Drop Troops should be a Regimental Doctrine. That would be like trying to represent the old Eldar Corsairs faction through a Kabal Obsession; you could finagle something, but it'd be awkward as hell. What I'm saying is that this Codex should be a full supplement to Astra Militarum, akin to Deathwatch, Space Wolves, or Blood Angels, rather than an entirely separate codex/faction. There are essentially three kinds of units in this codex:
  • 1) Unique Drop Troops units with no straightforward analogue in Astra Militarum. This includes named characters, as well as units like the Tauros Commander or "Recon" units. These are great, and they fit perfectly as the "new" datasheets tied directly to the Drop Troops supplement, like the half-dozen-to-a-dozen unique units in the big Space Marine supplements.
  • 2) Drop Troops units that are clearly extant Astra Militarum units, but use the Drop Troops weapon lists and have the Drop Troops special rules. This includes "Storm Troopers", as well as Infantry Squads, Heavy/Special Weapons Squads, Veterans, Command Squads, Commissars, Commanders, and "Tactical Air Controllers". These are the real point of contention for me - a few are debateable, but overall I feel like they just "gum up" the codex, distracting the reader from the great work elsewhere, and you'd lose nothing by cutting them. There is absolutely no difference between adding four whole datasheets for Storm Company Commander, Storm Platoon Commander, Storm Command Squad, and Stormtrooper Squad, and just saying "MILITARUM TEMPESTUS INFANTRY units in DROP TROOPS Detachments replace the <TEMPESTUS REGIMENT> keyword with <DROP REGIMENT> in every instance, and use the Drop Troops Special Weapons List".
  • 3) Drop Troops units that are literally identical to Astra Militarum units with the same name. The Tech-Priest Enginseer is here, with Servitors - I have no idea why, given they can't even be included in a DROP TROOPS Regiment. A bunch of vehicles are reprinted here, in a move that's either unnecessary because they're basically the same, or necessary and annoying because they're the same unit with some unlooked-for changes sneaked in (like the Vendetta Gunship, which gains Grav-Chute Insertion and Roving Gunship; I'm not sure why the AM version doesn't have those, but the distinction will cause arguments). These can and should be cut.


  • Having read through this roster a few more times, my suggestion would be - and as requested, I'm dropping the topic after this point:
  • HQ: Named Characters, Tauros Commander, Sentinel Commander
  • Elites: Named Characters, Recon/Recon Bike Commander, Combat Engineers/Drop Breachers
  • Troops: N/A, or Recon Squad
  • Fast Attack: Recon Bike Squad, Tauros Assault/Venator/Medicae, Drop Sentinels
  • Heavy Support: Sniper Squad, Drop Weapons Platform

  • This gives you a solid roster of about a dozen unique datasheets to showcase, most of them being "recon" units who could be tooled toward supporting and fully enabling the half of your army being deployed by Aerial Drop. The rest can be handled by giving the Drop Troops special rules and Drop Troops Weapon/Wargear Lists to existing AM units, which creates common ground for existing AM players and avoids confusing or clogging up the reader. It also cuts the non-named character datasheets from 30 pages to 7, which says a lot.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/23 17:05:52


     
       
    Made in us
    Fresh-Faced New User




     AegisFate wrote:
    For Custom Regimental Traits, Counter Expert and Gunship Dance are two highly potent standout ones to me that scream to be taken, especially as innate overwatch and getting RR1s to hit on a 3+ hitting Vendetta with six Lascannons reminds me of a very distinct dark time where it was 130pts and a fast skimmer. Heavy Infantry and Leaf on the Wind also just do most of what Harakoni does, but better, albeit only on Aircraft for the 5+ wound shrug. I'm also not sure if White of their Eyes allows you to just fire Overwatch as normal or if it allows you to just shoot super awesomer no matter what when using the stratagem. Honestly I'd just dump the entire section into the garbage. Also padding out content by using some OC regiments isn't a bad idea, but it provides more room for abuse.


    Thank you for the feedback about the custom regiments.
    SO before talking in detail it is not rare now with all the new codex to have custom regiments beeing better than Official regiment so we will try to check and protect the balance but in the end we can't just make everything bad to protect the core regiments. But our goal is to make something that peoples can enjoy and we hope nobody will that use this codex will try to cheese something out of it. We will write a designer note about that before the rule part.

    So the overwatch traits are kinda tricky, with overwatch being a stratagem, and the guard codex not being updated to reflect that we tried to improvise something out around potential Tau like overwatch for a custom regiment. we can rework them if they are too cheesy in their actual form but we would also lack to see what will the updates be for other armies with overwatch focused traits. (one of our guy played a game where he chose the 2 overwatch trait but he never got charged if I remember correctly and it was kinda wasted)

    Gunship dance: I see the potential problem with gunship dance, but as strong as it is, a fully equipped Vendetta in our codex is 225pts (20pts more than in the guard codex to reflect the changes and synergies with the potential traits and stratagems). WIth the disappearance of the Air wind detachment the aircraft slot can become a problem very fast and its not spammable like the squadrons of the past (GW seems to be removing squadrons too for some reason so we did the same). So yes it is powerfull, but it require to be immobile the turn it fire, so no more -1 to hit against it so easily destroyable during the next enemy shooting phase. (on paper it looks very strong, but it will have to be tested to be sure of its over effectiveness, and nerf/removed if it is really OP)

    Leaf in the wind is good, but you will have to invest in a lot of aircrafts to make it viable, while the Harakon doctrine is a little weaker, but every cheap vehicle is affected. If think it balance out nicely. But the fact that our hard hitting stuff is aircraft some might prefer to make them tankier.

    White of their eyes: To fire overwatch You need to view the charging unit, so this trait allow you to shoot even if the enemy is not visible. The trait is not very clear and will probably need rework/removal because of the new way the overwatch work.

    Don't ask to dump everything ! :O

    RevlidRas wrote:
    Alright, other, more local comments:


    "When do you trigger flare/chaff launchers? I'd recommend copying the wording from smoke launchers, but as it stands I don't know when I activate them; when I'm hit?"
    Good suggestion about copying the wording from the smoke launcher but with smoke launcher beeing transfered to stratagmes the equipment will probably have to go to. It is suposed to be used when you get damaged by missile weapons but will rework that thank you

    "infra-red targeting affects the "cover save", which doesn't exist anymore, and limits it to a +1, which is all cover gives anyway. I'd suggest copying the wording from the Genestealer Cults augur array."
    Once again great suggestion, will look at the GSC codex to check it out.

    "The Tauros Medicae is the most powerful and unpredictable "medic" unit in the game that I'm aware of. It can potentially restore 3 models per round, where most medics get D3 wounds or 1 restored model (and some don't even get the latter). However, it only works on a 4+, meaning it has a bigger swing than an Ork Painboy. Doesn't really feel appropriate."
    I took inspiration from the useless medi-pack that the guard has for years and buffed it up. It is unreliable but its in line with what AM have. Might need some rework if it is really that bad.

    "Tech-Priest Enginseer and Servitors don't have the Drop Troops keyword, and so can't be included in this army."
    We will rework/remove some unit as per all the comment saying they shouldnt be there so they will be a no problem after that

    "It's unclear whether Tactical Air Controller's Air Raid Requested ability can be used in the same turn as the Officer of the Fleet's Air Raid Requested ability."
    They wanted to change the name of the guy to make it more of a frontline dude, will have to edit the description to include Officer of the fleet too, or just roll back the name (but some will complains haha)

    "Unclear what "bonus" means for Elysia's Vehicle Order. It can't re-roll? No positive modifiers? No Stratagems? Can it use positive modifiers to cancel out negative modifiers to neutral, or is it stuck with those?"
    As implied it is no bonus at all, made it that way to stop potential abuse but might need rework (do you think it is a good thing to stop bonuses ? Or is it not worth it ?)

    "Cascadia's Order references the XENOS keyword, which doesn't exist."
    you are right about this one, will have to change that one !

    "I can't think of a single situation in which I'd want to use the Hell Harlots Order. Drop Troops don't even have Priests, what am I going to do with re-rolling hit rolls?"
    You will use it for the same reason you use Hell Harlot, for fun, glory and for his divine Majesty !

    "Harakon's Warlord Trait doesn't account for the Warlord being in a VEHICLE, as the Valhallan equivalent does. I appreciate they're less tough than the Leman Russ, but still."
    Will edit that one too, but as tauros already have access to a 5+ if they move I found it redundant. But will edit anyway thank you.

    "Are tactical bombs meant to be once per battle, or not? The phrasing is confusing."
    Its one use only but I forgot to add this detail on the equipment like it is on the heavy bombs, will edit that too.

    =================================================

    Thank you all again for the detailed feedback you found a lot of problems ! always nice to have more eyes reading. And sorry if we sometime seems angry, triggered and stuborn haha
    The supplement is still a no go, but all the voices that talked about the backline units beeing not very thematic has been heard and we will remove a few things like the techpriest and some other.
    We are also thinking about reworking/ removing some of the new unique units we created to give them a more define role.
    And we will rework some of the units that exist in the AM codex to make them more unique to drop troops to not be just copy paste.

    As per the discussion about the regimental traits on paper some things might look week/strong while once on a table it is the contrary so if any of you is tring out something with a friend or alone at home dont hesitate to send us a detailed battle report with your opinion about what was too good/bad.

    Thank again for all the feedback and hope to have more !
    Will have a lot of work of correction and editing but I hope to post an updated version by the start of next week with some of your feedback inside.

    Have a good evening and pray the Emperor !
       
    Made in us
    Confessor Of Sins




    Tacoma, WA, USA

     DalekCheese wrote:
     alextroy wrote:
    Yelling when you don’t like the feedback is not likely to get you a better response.


    The caps were not intended to imply anger; merely to catch the attention of users.
    This is the internet. Caps are yelling. Bold and colors are emphasis. One should use the right one, not both.

    I will not provide some useful comments since RevlidRas as covered everything that could be said about Codex versus Codex Supplement.

  • Keyword Formatting: Models with fixed Regiments (like General Syckava) should not have <> around the Drop Regiment name. General Syckava should have 23rd ELYSIA not <23rd ELYSIA>.
  • Drop/Storm Platoon Commanders: Why are they HQs rather than Elites like the AM Platoon Commanders?
  • Storm Company/Platoon Commanders: Why split the Tempestor Prime into two units? Isn't one with a Rod of Command option enough?
  • High Value Target Sighted ability: This is extremely powerful. A +1 to Hit against a specific unit for all your Infantry and Biker units is in the league of multi-point CP Stratagems. This is far too powerful as written.
  • Jump Sentinel ability: Neither Fly, Reiver's Grapnel Launcher no longer allows you to ignore terrain during a charge. This ability probably shouldn't either. Also, is it intentional that you cannot move over models?
  • At knife range ability: no longer necessary in 9th Edition due to Big Guns Never Tire.
  • Sending Coordinates/Air Raid Requested: These are very power abilities when compared to the Master of Ordnance's Artillery Barrage.
  • Combat Engineers: The datasheet says they have Shotguns standard, but the first Wargear option is replace your lasgun with a shotgun. There are also numerous options that say replace your lasgun or shotgun, which is unnecessary since the unit only comes with one a default and there is no requirement to change the entire unit to the other.
  • Strafing Coordinates: Another ability that gives a blanket buff to all units of a type attacking a unit. This goes strongly against GW's design philosophy that has such abilities be aura-based rather than board-based.
  • TECH-PRIEST ENGINSEER & SERVITOR: These are not Drop Troops. The Advisors and Auxilla as written doesn't allow them in a Drop Troops Detachment (it says Astra Militarum detachment). Why are they in this codex if they can't be used in a Drop Troops Detachment?
  • Recon Bike Squad: Why no Aerial Drop? If you can drop a Tauros, you can drop a bike.
  • Sentinel Power Lifter & Support Sentinel: Why don't these have Aerial Drop if other Sentinels have it.
  • Drop Weapons Platform: has Drop in the name, but no Aerial Drop ability.
  • Air Cavalry: I'm unsure the purpose of this Ability. Everything it does is already covered by Aerial Drop and Aircraft via the core rules, which the units also have.


  • Drop Troop Regiments and Aircraft: Do the Drop Troops really have their own aircraft? I'm not talking about their Valkyrie and Vendetta gunships, but all the other aircraft. Shouldn't those be Aeronautic Imperialis units?

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/24 04:02:57


     
       
     
    Forum Index » 40K Proposed Rules
    Go to: