Abilities that trigger off the same event

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**SaganGree**

Question: I was looking at the Necron codex, specifically the Circumstance of Awakening: Arise Against the Interlopers (Each time a model with the code makes a melee attack against an INFANTRY or BIKER unit, an unmodified hit roll of 6 automatically wounds the target.) and I was wondering how it interacts with the Scarab Swarm Feeder Mandibles (Each time an attack is made with this weapon, an unmodified hit roll of 6 automatically wounds the target.)

I'm assuming that you still only get one wound but wasn't sure as both rules are triggered events and I didn't see anything in the rare rules section... please advise

**U02dah4**

You only get one wound

**SaganGree**

Cool, thats what I thought, thanks for the confirmation

**p5freak**

U02dah4 wrote:
You only get one wound

We cant be sure, because the rules dont say anything about this.

**U02dah4**

We can. Both the triggers use the word "automatic" meaning you don't need to do the roll. When they stack GW uses the phrase "additional" instead.

It doesn't matter how many times your are exempted from the roll the outcome is you don't need to do the roll

As opposed to additional hits where I I have a hit gain an additional hit and still gain another additional hit for 3 hits

**p5freak**

Thats true for hits. If two or more rules would score an additional hit on an unmodified hit roll of 6 they dont stack. But we talk about wounds here. We dont know if the same logic is true for wounds as well.

**U02dah4**

N/a

**alextroy**

p5freak wrote:
Thats true for hits. If two or more rules would score an additional hit on an unmodified hit roll of 6 they dont stack. But we talk about wounds here. We dont know if the same logic is true for wounds as well.

Actually you have that backwards. If you have two rules that add additional hits on an unmodified hit roll of 6, they both apply. Thus Lelith Hesperax with her Warlord Trait gets 3 additional hits on an unmodified hit roll of 6, 1 for her weapon's rule and 2 for her Warlord Trait.

On the other hand, having two rules that cause an unmodified hit roll of 6 to automatically means your hit automatically wounds. You don't roll to wound. In fact, you don't roll to wound twice, but you don't get an additional hit. So your opponent only has one 'wounding hit' to Save against.

**p5freak**

alextroy wrote:
p5freak wrote:
Thats true for hits. If two or more rules would score an additional hit on an unmodified hit roll of 6 they dont stack. But we talk about wounds here. We dont know if the same logic is true for wounds as well.
Actually you have that backwards. If you have two rules that add additional hits on an unmodified hit roll of 6, they both apply. Thus Lelith Hesperax with her Warlord Trait gets 3 additional hits on an unmodified hit roll of 6, 1 for her weapon's rule and 2 for her Warlord Trait.

Are you sure ?

SCORING ADDITIONAL HITS
When a model makes an attack, some rules will let that attack score one or more additional hits on a particular hit roll (e.g. ‘each time an attack is made with this weapon, an unmodified hit roll of 6 scores 1 additional hit’). If the attacking model is also benefiting from any other rules that trigger on a particular hit roll (e.g. ‘each time an attack is made with this weapon, an unmodified hit roll of 6 automatically wounds the target’), then only the original attack benefits from those rules. If any additional hits are scored as the result of a particular hit roll, those additional hits are not considered to have been made with any hit roll – they simply hit the target and you must continue the attack sequence for them (i.e. make a wound roll).

To me this sounds like lelith doesnt score 3 additional hits when she has multiple rules which give her additional hits on an unmodified hit roll of 6.

alextroy wrote:

On the other hand, having two rules that cause an unmodified hit roll of 6 to automatically means your hit automatically wounds. You don't roll to wound. In fact, you don't roll to wound twice, but you don't get an additional hit. So your opponent only has one 'wounding hit' to Save against.

I never said you roll to wound. The core rules dont apply here, because you dont roll to wound. There are two different rules which say an unmodified hit roll of 6 automatically wounds. We dont know whether both rules stack, or not. A unit can get wounded multiple times.

**U02dah4**

That doesn't say additional hits don't stack

It says that additional hits don't themselves cause additional abilities to trigger.

So of you had to additional hits on 6's and 1 auto wound on 6's

You would get 2 additional hits and 1 autowound on a 6 not 3 autowounds

A unit can get wounded multiple times but not off a single wound roll that rule gives permission for the original role only to skip its wound roll this can't stack because once it's skipped skipping again makes no difference

**p5freak**

U02dah4 wrote:
That doesn't say additional hits don't stack

It says that additional hits don't themselves cause additional abilities to trigger.

So of you had to additional hits on 6's and 1 auto wound on 6's

You would get 2 additional hits and 1 autowound on a 6 not 3 autowounds

Ok.

U02dah4 wrote:

A unit can get wounded multiple times but not off a single wound roll that rule gives permission for the original role only to skip its wound roll this can't stack because once it's skipped skipping again makes no difference

We dont know whether thats true, or not. There is no wound roll, it doesnt say it gets skipped, just that it automatically wounds.

**alextroy**

And how many times can one hit wound? Once. This is simple logic. If one hit can wound multiple times, you need a rules allowing that. In the absence of such a rule, you are left with one wound.

**Oborosen**

alextroy wrote:
And how many times can one hit wound? Once. This is simple logic. If one hit can wound multiple times, you need a rules allowing that. In the absence of such a rule, you are left with one wound.

I think this comes down to allocation.
Much like the original post distinction between two different rules for something shared from one unit to multiple. You might be asked to allocate the rules separately, or to declare your rolls before any of this takes place. Especially in instances where you know both rules would most likely be triggered.

This looks like one of those RAW, rules judge nightmares that they have to deal with from time to time.

**p5freak**

alextroy wrote:
And how many times can one hit wound? Once. This is simple logic.

Yes, if we go by the core rules. But we have two special rules here, and those don't necessarily follow the core rules. I'm not saying that combo wounds twice, i'm saying we dont know.

**U02dah4**

And I would say that any to is going to rule that it only happens once

**p5freak**

U02dah4 wrote:
And I would say that any to is going to rule that it only happens once

Its irrelevant what a TO rules. A TO can decide whatever he wants, its his tournament, his house rules. We are talking official GW rules here.

**JohnnyHell**

SaganGree wrote:
Question: I was looking at the Necron codex, specifically the Circumstance of Awakening: Arise Against the Interlopers (Each time a model with the code makes a melee attack against an INFANTRY or BIKER unit, an unmodified hit roll of 6 automatically wounds the target.) and I was wondering how it interacts with the Scarab Swarm Feeder Mandibles (Each time an attack is made with this weapon, an unmodified hit roll of 6 automatically wounds the target.)

I'm assuming that you still only get one wound but wasn't sure as both rules are triggered events and I didn't see anything in the rare rules section... please advise

One wound. If it automatically wounds from first effect, the second application of ‘automatically wounds’ is superfluous, as you’re already auto wounding.

**U02dah4**

p5freak wrote:
U02dah4 wrote:
And I would say that any to is going to rule that it only happens once

Its irrelevant what a TO rules. A TO can decide whatever he wants, its his tournament, his house rules. We are talking official GW rules here.

It's what the rules say so it's what the to will rule theirs no ambiguity here
As Johnny Hall writes