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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Basically its a special weapons squads of grenadiers that fire actual grenade launchers, but you can buff the unit with melta-grenade launchers, so they have carapace armor, and every other has grenade launchers (maybe other guy has hot-shot lasguns, and maybe extra ammo (grenades), then you can upgrade the squad with melta-grenade launchers. It would be super cool to introduce grenadiers like the death-korp used to have. Also it would be fun to watch the emperor grace the imperial guard (Astra-militarum) with something that sounds ridiculously (expensive?) with something like a gun that flings something super expensive like melta-grenades. In previous editions they used to charge space marines like 5 points to carry one melta grenade. Also could possibly introduce plasma grenades? Im not sure how the technology would work lore wise, or something hay-wire grenade like.
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







So...you want a longer-range meltagun?

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
Homebrew oldhammer project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790996.page#10896267
Meridian: Necromunda-based 40k skirmish: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/795374.page 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Sounds like you're more or less describing a guard special weapons team (an existing unit) or possibly something like the old rules for veterans with the demolitionists ability.

I'm not sure "melta grenades" are really a widespread thing in the imperium. Meltabombs are generally described as being heavy things you latch onto a target and set a timer for. So if a "melta grenade" exists, it kind of begs the question, "Why do they (marines etc.) bother with clunky latched-on bombs when they could just be lobbing melta weaponry halfway across the battlefield.

I guess you could say "melta grenades" are less potent than a meltabomb but more potent than a krak grenade, but then you have to wonder why krak grenades are a thing.

I *think* the imperium has some access to haywire grenades. They sound like they'd be high-tech enough to not be widely available though. Plus, I could see the mechanicus having philosophical objections (and pragmatic concerns) regarding the mass production of devices designed specifically to harm machine spirits; even if they are theoretically being lobbed at enemy machine spirits. Basically, I suspect these would be the sort of thing an inquisitor and his retinue might have access to, or possibly specialized mehanicus units. I doubt they'd be widely available enough to be a piece of kit on a standardized guard unit.

Also, haywire grenades, along with plasma grenades, are sort of a xenos "thing." Tau can get EMP grenades on their basic troops. Eldar have plasma grenades on their basic troops and haywire grenades on things like swooping hawks and wyches. It's one of the remaining nods to the tech superiority eldar and tau supposedly have.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I just would love new rough riders.

Especially because melta will get costed to the moon and back and/or dialed back as is the fate of all front running choices in a GW game.

I caution people to use meltas because you must for AT ( like Sisters ) but if you go around and make your armies all melta all the time it will come back to bite you in the bum bum. We've learned this lesson many times playing this game.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




It would make total sense for a rough-rider sergeant to have the option to carry "melta-bombs" which I call grenades because it fits into the grenade category. Also I always imagined the 1st born marines carrying "grenades" which would count as "what you see is what you get" and not a satchel like charge/bomb. The idea would be to also introduce grenadiers back to the astra-militarum and not just death-korp this time.So they would include a carapace armor and 3+ BS. You would then upgrade the standard grenade launchers into something more expensive. I feel like sometimes the guard gets blessed with something expensive from the Emperor, so seeing a guard model fling melta-bombs via grenade launcher would be hilarious
   
Made in de
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot






I understand that they would differ from normal SWS by having carapace armor.
At what point (game mechanic wise) would that weapon option differ from a grenade launcher/melta? Do you intend that they have one single use of Meltagrenade and afterwards it's krak and frag?


~5600 build and painted 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Maybe you make them differ from giving them all grenade launchers, then having the ability to upgrade half with specialty grenade ammo, then be funnier by calling them grenadiers, also the 3+ BS would come with this elite unit
   
Made in gb
Bounding Assault Marine




UK

SWS with BS3+, carapace armour, and upgraded grenade launchers? This just sounds like you're describing scions command squads being buffed by elimination protocol orders.
   
Made in gb
Wrathful Warlord Titan Commander






London

Perhaps they could be a new unit for Scions, but trying to think of a "melta-grenade launcher" just comes up with stats too similar to existing Plasma or Melta.

   
Made in us
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!






So...carapace armor, 3+ ballistic skill, hot shot lasguns, grenade launchers...sounds like Scions to me, which you can already go 2/5 or 4/10 with grenade launchers. Just being able to lob melta bombs 24" (unless this is a short ranged grenade launcher) on a cheap body seems a bit hard to balance though - considering how many complaints there are about melta spam on some of the sturdy marine units. You either end up with the point where they are grossly under costed, or they are to expensive to realistically field, since t3 at a 4+ save isn't the most resilient of bodies in the world.

To fine tune this idea, make it somewhat more workable, and since you say elite unit type, to use as homebrew in your own games...

Grenadier Shock Trooper - has carapace armor, slightly specialized lasgun with underslung grenade launcher (with 1 shot) whose lasguns are say S4 Assault 2 24" range, and the underslung grenade launcher is 12" range and fires a heavy krak grenade (say same S as regular krak but is ap-2 and does 3 flat damage). Maybe give the unit 2 attacks base to make it a small scale bully unit - rush in firing, lob the heavy grenades up close and then charge in to try to finish the job.

I'll fully admit, not the best of balance jobs, but seems a bit more tame than a bunch of dudes lobbing meltabombs halfway across the battlefield, and it still plays the theme of carapace grenade boys.
   
Made in us
Stealthy Sanctus Slipping in His Blade





Some backwater sump

I could see a heavy weapons team with a catapult or trebuchet style weapon that launches melta bombs. The bombs could be bolas-style so they catch the target and wrap around before detonating. Or magna-bolas or something like that. 2-man team with a giant crossbow-like weapon.

How about krak or melta mortars?

New Career Time? 
   
Made in us
VF-1S Valkyrie Squadron Commander





Mississippi

Melta-lances for Rough Riders? That’d be interesting, having to get into melee to use melta at least.

Instead of Melta grenades, what about phosphor grenade launchers? Could lower the strength a point or two but they roll two damage dice, take the better.

It never ends well 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I like the idea of making this a scion unit instead of a generic guard unit. It gives you an excuse to give them better-than-normal versions of their guns the same way scions have access to hotshots instead of normal las weapons.

Make them an elite(?) scion unit. Carapace armor. Maybe deepstrike, maybe not. Give them generic grenade launchers (possibly with a lasgun fire mode) and maybe some sort of special rule to represent being trained to make the most of these somewhat specialized pieces of equipment. Off the top of my head...

* Covering Fire: Once per turn, impose a -2" charge penalty to an enemy unit within line of sight and in range of their launchers. (Shooting not to kill but to stagger the enemy charge with frags.)

* Flush 'em Out!: Ignore line of sight with your launchers.

* Empty 'em, Lads!: You may use this rule to automatically fire 6 shots with each frag profile you shoot this turn. If you do so, the unit may not shoot at all on the following turn as they're too busy reloading. (Like oldschool Bladestorm.)

And then give them a few stratagems to represent specialized ammo types.

*One to shoot EMP grenades with a profile that looks a lot like the drukhari haywire blaster.

*One to have a single model fire a smoke grenade. Place a smoke token anywhere within range of the weapon. Everything within 6" of the center and up to 5" vertically counts as a piece of obscuring terrain until the start of your next turn. ("Dense?" The one that imposes -1 to hit.)

* Maybe a gas grenade option with Poison 2+ that inflicts a penalty to attrition tests.

You get the idea. Easier to balance fancy ammo if they cost CP to use (and I'd argue capture the flavor of such ammo being a rarity). Gives the small subfaction that is scions some new tactical options.
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




Can we just have the ordinary Grenadiers back? The guys with stats and equipment similar to Scions but with the <Regiment> keyword? Even if they're 9 points a model and have to sacrifice the Aerial Drop ability that'd be fine with me.

I want to play my old high-tech Guard again.
   
Made in us
Drop Trooper with Demo Charge





As much as I hate to suggest that an army be removed, I think they should just make Scions an IG elite choice and make Militarum Tempestus a regular fething regiment (with the Regimental ability to make Scions squads count as Troops). I'm glad GW was willing to experiment and that some people enjoyed Scions as a separate thing, but GW didn't give them anywhere near enough to be capable of standing on their own, and since GW seems to be backing away from doing anything further with them, they should be folded back into the regular Guard.
   
 
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