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Made in gb
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine




Eastern Fringe

Hi. When I'm not bringing the greater good to the darkness of the 41st Millenium, IRL I'm an Interior Designer by trade. I'll be starting a Masters in ID this year and for it, I will have to choose a real site within a cities limits and present a 'change of use' design proposal for it. The project will be taken from concept to a fully realized proposal over the course of a year. There are no restrictions in terms of "budget" although you will need to be able to justify your design choices. One of the ideas I am playing around with is the idea of an ultimate gaming venue. Think along the lines of Warhammer World, with hospitality and retail offerings as well as gaming space. I quite like the idea of giving the dank, BO-filled gaming rooms across the land, a 21st-century make-over. With a simple modern aesthetic similar to that of an Apple Store (as an example), high-quality materials, and quality space.

A central 'operational concept' I have regarding the project would be a large space with a number of gaming tables (as well a private premium rooms). The tables would be high quality and have a Morning, Afternoon & Evening time slot that could be booked. It would a bit like booking a Karaoke room, in that you would have space and there would be a dedicated waitress that would bring snacks, drinks, etc which would either be an all you can have incorporated cost or separate menu.

What are your thoughts? Would you be willing to pay for access to a top-tier gaming table? With all the terrain, drinks, and snacks prepared for your arrival? What things would you consider if you were embarking on this project? Any ideas?

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/04/13 02:49:53


The first rule of unarmed combat is: don’t be unarmed. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




NE Ohio, USA

I want programable overhead laser projectors that''ll beam the correct deployment zones & objectives onto the tables below.
Just pull up the mission to be played, type in the table size being used, & your all set.
   
Made in fi
Ye Lord of The End Times (and a good guy)





ccs wrote:
I want programable overhead laser projectors that''ll beam the correct deployment zones & objectives onto the tables below.
Just pull up the mission to be played, type in the table size being used, & your all set.


Ah yes that's been part of my dream table Wasn't thinking of projector though...

Would be cool though.

For OP I'm affraid players are really, really, really, REALLY cheapskates and generally don't want to pay for tables. Some store tries to charge up for tables and it's always "evil store" when they dare to ask for price. This from guys who generally don't buy anything from said store.

Not sure you can get financially feasible with the level of renovation you do. Good luck getting even rent covered.

2021 painted/bought: 497/417 
   
Made in au
Anti-Armour Swiss Guard






Newcastle, OZ

Aesthetics similar to a modern apple store?

Do you not mean "aesthetics that even an ascetic would decry"?

Will this ultimate gaming venue also be on the moon.

Because the apple stores lack anything even approaching "atmosphere" that they may as well be in hard vacuum.

I'm OVER 50 (and so far over everyone's BS, too).
Old enough to know better, young enough to not give a ****.

That is not dead which can eternal lie ...

... and yet, with strange aeons, even death may die.
 
   
Made in gb
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine




Eastern Fringe

tneva82 wrote:
ccs wrote:
I want programable overhead laser projectors that''ll beam the correct deployment zones & objectives onto the tables below.
Just pull up the mission to be played, type in the table size being used, & your all set.


Ah yes that's been part of my dream table Wasn't thinking of projector though...

Would be cool though.

For OP I'm affraid players are really, really, really, REALLY cheapskates and generally don't want to pay for tables. Some store tries to charge up for tables and it's always "evil store" when they dare to ask for price. This from guys who generally don't buy anything from said store.

Not sure you can get financially feasible with the level of renovation you do. Good luck getting even rent covered.



That isn't my experience at all. Gaming is an expensive hobby and people fork out a load on event tickets, hotels, travel etc for tournaments and events.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 chromedog wrote:
Aesthetics similar to a modern apple store?

Do you not mean "aesthetics that even an ascetic would decry"?

Will this ultimate gaming venue also be on the moon.

Because the apple stores lack anything even approaching "atmosphere" that they may as well be in hard vacuum.



Aesthetics are subjective, but there are many qualitative aspects to interiors that are measured, tracked, and can be indicative of a "successful space". I used Apple as an example because regardless of your personal taste, the quality of Apple store interiors in regards to the quality of the materials used, the lighting, etc have been game-changers in the retail sector. They are also consistently voted and rated as the best retail environments and experiences.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/13 10:01:59


The first rule of unarmed combat is: don’t be unarmed. 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Master with Gauntlets of Macragge





Upstate, New York

An interesting concept for an “Ultimate”

It might be different over the pond, but the location is critical. You could do everything right, but if I need to drive more then 2 hours, or book a hotel and make a weekend out of it, I’m not going to darken your doorway. You need to have enough population in easy strike range, or book with destination events (big tournaments) to keep your hall filled.

The main issue is going to be the budget and the cost. You offer more features, you can charge more (but will cost more to build/maintain). I’d theoretically pay to use a nice table with full terrain. Depending on the cost and the location depends if I do it once a year as a special treat, or more often. But if the cost gets too high, I’ll just invest that money on my own table. How many compromises away from ultimate are you willing to keep the cost down? Sure, the concept of having wait staff keep your drinks flowing and full is tempting, but is there gong to be enough volume to warrant the salaries/overhead that come with more employees? Running to the bar for refills takes you away from the table, but if it lowers the cost $10 for the rental, is that worth it? You make too many, and people will just stay at the FLGS. But if the cost gets too high, people will use that to buy something tangible, like a second army or a new game, rather then a day gaming.

   
Made in gb
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine




Eastern Fringe

This is a design project as part of an education in design, so it's entirely theoretical, the idea would be to approach a gaming environment in a new way. This wouldn't be a place that catered to younger people. It would be for older gamers with more money that would like to incorporate a social aspect after a game like a meal and some drinks. I'm thinking about a space a little like the Karaoke places seen across Japan.

Imagine you could book a table and select an army from a range of nicely painted models before you arrive to play with it?

When you do arrive with your friend or group you are greeted by a hostess/host/Dungeon master, then taken to your room. In the room, the table is all laid out to your specifications, with either the venues armies, your own armies (you could have locker/storage space for regular members and the host would carefully pack and unpack everything for your games like a personal golf caddy would) with nicely made cocktails and freshly poured lager ready for you.

An hour and a half of gaming followed by a 30-minute break and refreshments, followed by a further hour and a half, and then you go out into the bar area for a meal from the menu order the host would have taken from you earlier. Everything from the game would be carefully packed and cleaned up after you.

I think this would be a great idea for a specific set of people who would love to game and socialize with some friends but don't have the time/space/desire to fully engage fully investing into buying/painting an army.

The first rule of unarmed combat is: don’t be unarmed. 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Master with Gauntlets of Macragge





Upstate, New York

I think as a theoretical, it could be a lot of fun. But I tend to focus on the practical side, and there are enough real-world considerations that would kill this project. But if you had enough “whales” or this was a vanity project by a millionaire hobbyist what wanted to make the ultimate space to share, and wasn’t concerned with turning a profit. Sure.

I get your vision. Wonderfull castle in the clouds. Great for a mental exercise. I just get hung up on the bricks and mortar, costs and budgets. Which I don’t see happening IRL.

   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




That concept sounds like the target market probably doesn't exist, at least not in the numbers you'd need to succeed. A lot of those little extras sound like they provide very little benefit for quite a lot of extra cost. Any store near me that's charged over £5 for a table has had to drop those prices pretty quickly. Yes, people may pay a lot for a tournament or other gaming event once you factor in hotels, travel etc, but you're not offering any of that, you're offering a venue. In that instance you're going to be compared to the cost of other venues, not the cost of spending a weekend at a tournament.

Having the venue supply armies is not likely to be that popular with a lot of people for whom the creative side of the hobby is part of the appeal. For those people, like me, having someone else unpack my army would be a huge no-no and also not particularly useful since I'm still the one who has to deploy them. If cost is not an issue then sure, have an infinite choice of armies for people to use. One good feature might be to have tables already set up with deployment zones marked out, which would save some time for the players.

I think a more realistic approach would be to give everyone more space than you get in a typical FLGS but private rooms seems like overkill. Having somewhere onsite that serves decent meals would be good, especially as a separate area rather than integrated into the gaming room and table service would be a decent addition. Thinking more practically, though, if I'm going to be playing games I'd usually prefer to spend more time playing and less time having a meal/drinking. Most of my drinking is done at the table and the food is usually a quick bite like a burger or pizza slices rather than a sit-down meal.

As far as quality of materials and design aesthetic goes, I think an atmosphere like an Apple store is the last thing you want. Quality materials is obviously good, but I'm much more concerned about the quality of the tables in terms of terrain and the space around them. Mats on every board would be good, as would properly themed boards with well-built and well-painted scenery. Having each gaming area at least partitioned off with enough space for side table for drinks would also be a good idea.
   
Made in si
Ravenous Beast Form







We have a board game cafe here that seems to be doing well charging a small door fee and then just drinks, but of course the average table for board games is half the size and seats twice as many as a 40k table.

Here's something I'd be interested in in a premium gaming space: renting a permanent locker for my armies and terrain.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/04/13 12:52:14


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Made in ie
Regular Dakkanaut





Ireland

I think most of the replies are missing that this isn’t a “real” project but an assignment built around the design elements. Whether or not there is a market is a moot point. I think it’s a great concept and you’ve clearly thought it through from a design/luxury perspective. In terms of a luxury approach; that is definitely a novel idea when it comes to gaming and you can see from the existence of arcade game focused restaurants/bars that there is a lot to be said for targeting a more grown-up/casual market with money to spare.

Styling it as something that isn’t a traditional dank corner of a games store is a good move - if it’s a deluxe version then you need to make sure it feels like you’re getting bang for your buck and I think your proposal has a lot of bases covered. The Apple aesthetic might not work but I get your point about them being pinnacles of good design and use of materials, definitely I think the brightness and clean lines of those stores would work in giving this a very different vibe to what’s out there.

For me, I think space between the tables in the open plan areas is essential. This is both from a sense of getting more as customer (you don’t want to feel literally and financially squeezed) and practical as the spaces can be used for smaller tables to have your drinks on (no one wants a cocktail all over their warzone except maybe Hawkeye from M*A*S*H) or your books, tokens, etc. The private rooms sound cool and could double as somewhere devoted more to RPGs than necessarily 40K or similar.

Given the craze for vintage arcade machines, it could be worth having vintage games and terrain sets available as options for the nostalgia crowd. Original Necromunda with the card/bulkhead terrain, Warhammer Siege castle, etc.
   
Made in gb
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine




Eastern Fringe

 Nevelon wrote:
I think as a theoretical, it could be a lot of fun. But I tend to focus on the practical side, and there are enough real-world considerations that would kill this project.


Indeed. It's why there isn't a set budget or anything like that. Practical aspects are important, but setting them aside to investigate design opportunities, can lead to discovering something new, that would never have even been considered if you didn't embark on the design proposal without the shackles of real-world limitations.

As I explore different site options another potential consideration would be to have a site that would incorporate hotel rooms and function space that could be rented out for events and tournaments. (Good point slipcase) This would not be a GW exclusive venue and could be used for all kinds of Table Top, card and board games.

This would be an exercise in trying to create the ULTIMATE gaming venue. I'm thinking about in the same way as you might buy a "Track Day" experience for a couple of hundred pounds. It wouldn't be that high but in terms of a "Package", It would be on par with an afternoon shooting, horse riding etc.

It would be cool to have a collection of individuals who would act as hosts... similar to the MC's at murder mystery evenings or on walking tours around haunted houses or the actors that play parts in escape rooms. Super engaged individuals who would Role Play as the Dungeon Master and who would run games of DnD.

Staff "Uniforms" would be high-quality cosplay and the hotel would be approached in the same way as the themed hotels in theme parks. (The new star wars hotel) Miniwargamming has put together something. Think that but 5 stars and unlimited money.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/13 18:29:49


The first rule of unarmed combat is: don’t be unarmed. 
   
Made in gb
Twisted Trueborn with Blaster




Have you checked the other recent gaming venue viability thread? That covered a lot of the practicalities/ basic wants.

Good parking, and public transport links, comfortable temperature, SPACE around the main tables, with stable side tables to store armies, rulebooks etc on before during and after. Good quality terrain and lots of it, and lots of variety. Good clean toilets.

Lockers are good, retail & hospitality is good. Lockers are good - but will they be big enough?

Consider a chill out room for reluctant family with coffee, comfy chairs and video games with headphones.

Good sound system and good lighting.

Aesthetically I LIKE WHW's castle walls and ye old fortresse decor: actually - what does WHW do or not do that doesn't meet your brief?

If you want ULTIMATE, hologram terrain with randomised programmable maps?


   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN

I think modern Casino design may be of use to you in this theoretical endeavor. Those are designed to facilitate and support "gaming" as well.

Do you like Free Wargames?
http://bloodandspectacles.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




NE Ohio, USA

Huh, I hadn't considered renting "house" armies, or having the staff actually setting up/tearing down the tables.

But that'd be great. Especially with unlimited theoretical funds.
Make sure each house army has the max # of units (rule of 3, maxed out troop options, etc).
Staff could set the terrain each morning independently of actual games. You come, randomly generate the mission, & then fight on whatever the staff whipped up that morning terrain-wise.

   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Well if you want some dream setup ideas:

1) Lockers for on site storage of models and terrain. No more having to carry loads of boxes to and from home; it also locks people into gaming at your venue more often so encourages repeat business.

2) Themed decorations. Wargamers are full of imagination so i think the site has to support that visually. You might pick one theme and run with it or have varied themes throughout the year with basic walls underneath panels that you can swap over. Private game rooms might be similar, having specific themes or styles.

3) Security cameras in private game rooms - because you've got to consider that as they are private you don't want things happening in them that you're unaware of or at least unable to prove did or didn't happen should things get reported etc....

4) Long opening hours including food access for those big games and long evening sessions.

5) Separate food hall. Food on site is great, but you want a separate food eating region where people can pause their game, head over and have a proper meal away from the models.

6) Trained professional judges/staff who can provide tutorial games and also help out when gamers have questions during their games

7) At least 2 "house/store" armies per game to allow for tutorials and the like.

8) Art wing where models can be put on display. For showing off staff and customer models in a fancy manner. Heck perhaps even some wall art as well*

9) On site 3D printing services. Move with the times and 3D printing is growing, even if it won't replace it at least provides access to selling even more models and terrain.

10) Painting/hobby space. Don't just think about games, sometimes people like to come and have space to hobby as well. It's also great for people who might not have time to game ,but have half an hour or an hour spare and want to sit, paint/build and chat hobby stuff with others.

*if I ever won the lotto I'd love to buy a big mansion/hall/something and convert it into a huge fantasy/scifi art gallery .

   
Made in gb
Wrathful Warlord Titan Commander






London

My personal thoughts:

1) As Overread suggested, some sort of locker system would be beneficial for members.

2) Display cabinets for new products or any particularly interesting models for members.

3) A separate bar would be a huge boost. This would create an obstacle with licencing however. Full meals would be too much IMO and would need a lot more space, but a space to get a tea, beer or light snack would be ideal.

4) A club of this size is going to need some sort of acoustic management. This is something I personally find important as I'm partially deaf, and trying to hear my opponents can sometimes be near impossible if there's several games going on around me. I'm sure I'm not the only one who would want this.

5) Product range is also very important. While it doesn't have to be on-site, being able to purchase a huge variety of products is important in my eyes. Not just your standard models and paints, but basing materials, magnets, third-party conversion parts, other hobby supplies like airbrush parts, etc.

6) I think my main want would be to keep the membership costs low. The most I've paid for a game is £10 and that's enough for me. I've seen other discussions like this and some people seem to want to go all-out, without realising how much their membership will cost as a result. My FLGS uses a tiered membership system, which is crucial for those like me who just want a game of 40k after work, and don't want the painting service, house armies, etc.

7) Location is also key. As mentioned previously you'll need both good parking and public transport links.

   
Made in gb
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






 Hollow wrote:
Hi. When I'm not bringing the greater good to the darkness of the 41st Millenium, IRL I'm an Interior Designer by trade. I'll be starting a Masters in ID this year and for it, I will have to choose a real site within a cities limits and present a 'change of use' design proposal for it. The project will be taken from concept to a fully realized proposal over the course of a year. There are no restrictions in terms of "budget" although you will need to be able to justify your design choices. One of the ideas I am playing around with is the idea of an ultimate gaming venue. Think along the lines of Warhammer World, with hospitality and retail offerings as well as gaming space. I quite like the idea of giving the dank, BO-filled gaming rooms across the land, a 21st-century make-over. With a simple modern aesthetic similar to that of an Apple Store (as an example), high-quality materials, and quality space.

A central 'operational concept' I have regarding the project would be a large space with a number of gaming tables (as well a private premium rooms). The tables would be high quality and have a Morning, Afternoon & Evening time slot that could be booked. It would a bit like booking a Karaoke room, in that you would have space and there would be a dedicated waitress that would bring snacks, drinks, etc which would either be an all you can have incorporated cost or separate menu.

What are your thoughts? Would you be willing to pay for access to a top-tier gaming table? With all the terrain, drinks, and snacks prepared for your arrival? What things would you consider if you were embarking on this project? Any ideas?


Honestly?

No. I don’t mind subscribing to a club to help toward hall hire, but I’m not convinced a specific gaming venue would do enough business, precisely because clubs already exist.

There’s also my own gaming room in my flat. Well, there will be soon. Just need to rejig the furniture and get shot of the unneeded bed. With that in place, I’ll have the most relaxed venue a bloke could hope for.

Now that is of course speaking solely for myself. But, I suspect I’m not the only one with existing facilities which would be competing with yourself.

As a better option? Perhaps a set tournament venue which TO’s can hire out. Akin to Warhammer World, which has quite a lot of tables ready to go, plus shopping and restaurant facilities - including boardside drinks service for the brave.

With that, you’d need a decent sized venue, with transport links and/or customer parking (ideally both to maximise ease of attendance). And, the venue itself would be to be carefully located. It might be cheaper to position it in say, Wales. But if it’s a sod to get to, you may not get the custom needed.

Then there’s the price involved. As an independent Tourny Venue, that would be wrapped into their ticket price. You just bill them for the venue hire. And if you can offer a range of terrain and some form of dining facilities? You might have a shot at success. But, do research pre-existing Indy venues.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Cheltenham, UK

I'm a bit perplexed by the brief, here. On the one hand there are no budget limits, but on the other, you have to "justify" your design choices (justify how?) and you ask "Would you be willing to pay for access to a top-tier gaming table?"

Well, no I wouldn't. This project has very little commercial practicality. But as a theoretical exercise it's very interesting and it would be fascinating to try to articulate what it could or should look like.

So can you clarify? Does this project need to be financially viable or not?


   
 
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