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 Sledgehammer wrote:
If I want to play a local pick up game I'd need

#1 the main rules
#2 my codex
#3 my psychic awakening book to even think about being competitive
#4 the current FAQ's
#5 the current chapter approved book

That is bloat off the scales.
I don't see how people can think this is acceptable.

I haven't brought my BRB to a game ever, because the CA book has everything I need. My FAQs are a quick print off if there is something I can't put to memory. Since I got a free code I don't even need to bring my codex and I have cards for the strats anyway. So I'd be bringing two books if I had a PA book, but I don't so I bring one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sim-Life wrote:

Tyel wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:
Hyperbole is always a good way to make yourself look super clever.

Maybe, but I think you are giving Warmahordes way too much credit.

Its much the same thing. You have to learn the combos. Then you learn how they interact. Then you are back to just letting dice do the talking.

Now admittedly the perk of Warmahordes is that a "gotcha" (i.e. X+Y=Z) could result in the game being over in under 20 minutes - in which case you can just reset and go again - rather than a game of 40k (especially in 7th!) often being almost certainly over from deployment but still taking 3 hours to play through (because there's always a chance the dice will intervene.)

Keep in mind I'm directly comparing Warmachine (mostly Mk2) to 40k. The bredth of decision making in WMH is far greater and more interesting. In WMH you have to actually think about movement beyond just "move closer to objective" for example.

You actually have to think about movement in 40K, too, but people like to pretend that all you do is move towards the objectives.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
...You actually have to think about movement in 40K, too, but people like to pretend that all you do is move towards the objectives.

I mean, in 9th you occasionally have to move to get range on someone, I guess?

*sigh*

 AnomanderRake wrote:


As opposed to just needing Battlescribe to play 7th?

You live in a different reality it seems.

Tycho wrote:

Right. Because we see so many games where we hear about the winning player's masterful outmanuevering of thier opponent ... Oh wait no. We don't. When tables were big enough, and units were slow enough that you could get caught out of position, movement mattered. In the days where a deployment mistake, or an error in an early movement phase could potentially leave a unit out of the fight or unable to get to an objective, movement mattered. Now? No. Not so much. Everything can get to everything and you pretty much know where things are going. It's almost impossible to truly get "out of position" for most armies, and even then, you have a lot of strats to fix it. It's about jamming midfield and controlling the objectives, and by the time that's happening there's often not enough room to truly manuever anyway. What matters in 9th is absolutely not movement. It's TIMING. Too many are getting the two confused IMO.

Because whole games are not won or lost on a singular maneuver. This isn't a massive battlefield where sweeping behind the enemy line disrupts the supply chain.

I played a game where I anchored a side of the board with a C'Tan against 10 terminators and some support. The C'Tan was also WWSWF. I didn't move him out. When he was close to my objective I moved out to block and slow him for another turn. Meanwhile across the board I operated with the rest of my army. Once the C'Tan was dead the terminators were so out of position ( even for a homer ) that they would never draw a line of sight on the rest of my army.

So, I baited the unit by leaving my objective open and placing a high value and dangerous unit on that side. I restrained my desire to "earn points back" to tie up 35% of his army with 15% of mine. I made use of terrain to prevent him from drawing LOS to my other units once his unit was free to come after them.

Not every game plays like that and what happens depends on the opponent, their list, and terrain.

The only reason you got caught 'out of position' in older editions was because there was no pre-measuring and the person better at using other info to determine range fared better. That or their army was simply faster or had things like assault grenades to make your position pointless.

 Gnarlly wrote:

Exalted.

Perhaps GW is seeing the writing on the wall regarding 3D printing and its actual and future potential impact on GW's business model. For years GW used to say "we are a model company first" implying that the rules for its games took a backseat in its priorities. But with the rise of 3D printing and the continued success of the Magic The Gathering card game (which really keeps most FLGS in business), maybe the shift in GW's games towards more of a "card game" format with ongoing "supplements/expansions" has been intentional with the end result being games where GW's plastic models ("expensive chits" to quote a post from another recent discussion) are really no longer necessary. In the past decade GW has made some significant changes and legal defenses to its IP. It is my belief that they see a shift from a business model focused primarily on selling model kits to a business model focused on selling gaming rules, cards, books (including recent comic books), movies, and TV shows utilizing their IP.

Edit: And here you go: https://gamerant.com/warhammer-magic-gathering-crossover-expectations-cards-decks/
This "crossover" with MTG could actually be the tipping point.

3D printing isn't going to match the scale of production nor will it be able to anticipate new releases. 60% of GW's sales are new releases. It also competes with secondary market, alternate manufacturers, 15 to 20% discounts, and time/impatience.