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Made in tw
Been Around the Block





The Supreme Grand Master of the Dark Angels is going to face a different combatant in each independent round, how would he fare against each of them in a glorious meele combat?
“Fluff-wise”
(The “gauntlet” is by no means sorted by the characters’ combat prowess)

1.Chapter Master Dante of the Blood Angels
2.current Marneus Calgar
3.the Mandrake Kheradruakh
4.Jain Zar
5.Lelith Hesperax
6.Fallen Phoenix Lord Arhra aka Drazhar
7.Lucius the Eternal
8.The Swarmlord
9.Kharn the Betrayer (This time it’s a fight to the death)
10.Valerian the Custodian Shield Captain


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/11 00:55:01


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Well if we wins round 7 then he will die as Lucius will be reborn inside him.

But to be honest fluff wise I don’t really know much about azreals performance in combat. I do t think it gets talked about much most of what I have read is about all ongoing revelations as he moved up the ranks in the DA. I can’t think of one story that talks about him being a particularly excellent fighter.
   
Made in us
Revving Ravenwing Biker




New York City

Azrael was many things before being Surpreme Grand Master. I'm willing to bet he can beat most of the people on that list.
The three I'm dubious about would be Valerian, Kharn, and Dante.

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Made in de
[DCM]
Aspirant Tech-Adept






He would lose to pretty much all of them.
Azrael is a capable combatant and can beat up your average SM Captain.
His main strength is being a brilliant strategist and master schemer.
I recommend the Audiobook "trials of Azrael" where he is trapped, wounded and has Kharn on his heels all the time.

That's Azrael, not a ME SMASH character.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/11 11:45:12


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Made in tw
Been Around the Block





 LumenPraebeo wrote:
Azrael was many things before being Surpreme Grand Master. I'm willing to bet he can beat most of the people on that list.
The three I'm dubious about would be Valerian, Kharn, and Dante.

1.Just curious, how does he overcome the raw strength of Calgar?
2.Although being on my list, I was pretty much intended to place Valerian as a dead stop. Might elaborate on how Azrael may stand a chance?
3.I'm honestly thinking that you're probably underselling some of the xenos here, the mandrake posed major troubles for the primarch Vulkan, the Drazhar guy slaughtered a trio of custodians and killed his fellow phoenix lord Jain Zar who had slew her fair share of greater daemons and trashed a huge number of astartes around, adding to the list is Hesperax, while relatively feat-less, managed to beat up High Marshal Helbrecht in a short period of time (other details in the custodes vs hesperax thread, page 3 post #17) and had cut down her share of hive tyrants and warbosses.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/06/11 10:11:52


 
   
Made in gb
Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot





Luton, England

In the grand scheme of things I don't think Azzy is a legendary fighter so will struggle against most of this list, sure he's a good space marine captain but he's not much more than that in pure melee terms and alot of these are.


1.Chapter Master Dante of the Blood Angels - Likely pretty close but I'd give it to Dante's experience in melee and the pounding of the red thirst.

2.current Marneus Calgar - Again pretty close but marneus is primaris and is heavier armed and armoured so would likely power through to win.

3.the Mandrake Kheradruakh - Don't know alot about this guy, I suspect if he got the drop on Azzy he'd take him out but would lose in a straight up fight.

4.Jain Zar - Legendary swordswoman would cut Azzy down.

5.Lelith Hesperax - As above, no real contest.

6.Fallen Phoenix Lord Arhra aka Drazhar - This guy is a legend of legends in combat and would easily win.

7.Lucius the Eternal - Would likely be reasonably close as Lucius is a great and expeienced swordsman but also stupid and cocky but he always wins in the end...

8.The Swarmlord - No contest, he'd cut Azzy into pieces in a straight fight.

9.Kharn the Betrayer (This time it’s a fight to the death) - The rage may blind him a bit but the power and sheer aggression combine with thousands of years experience would lead to a death Azzy.

10.Valerian the Custodian Shield Captain - A shield captain is a step above a space marine captain in most regards and would take him down without much trouble.

A fun thought exercise, thanks :-)



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Made in gb
Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say






Yeah but any Xenos is always going to stalemate or lose to SM in modern GW media. Can't have the cash cow lose to some side bar faction.
As for named Chaos lads, they're all functionally immortal in one or another, Kharn and Lucius especially.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/11 11:22:42


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut






Pretty much agree with the view above; Azzy is a skilled warrior, but he is a leader first and fighter second.

One could make a similar case for Dante and Calgar, except the former has the Red Thirst and the later superior weapons, armour and primaris physiology.

Everyone else on the list is a dedicated killer, or alien super-weapon.

He'd probably beat most of them at chess though...

   
Made in tw
Been Around the Block





 Gert wrote:
Yeah but any Xenos is always going to stalemate or lose to SM in modern GW media. Can't have the cash cow lose to some side bar faction.
As for named Chaos lads, they're all functionally immortal in one or another, Kharn and Lucius especially.

Well, in the book the Silent Hunters the marine protagonists got their asses handed to them by Hesperax, and you got Jain Zar who even at worst was killing Night Lords here and there. Also, Imotekh literally cheated the hell outta Helbrecht (sure, Helbrecht bit back in a later story arc), that's something to suggest some xeno big names won't get trashed on by GW, right??? LOl, guess it doesn't matter so long as the models are selling well.
   
Made in gb
Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say






TBH it was more a commentary on the overabundance of SM in GW's marketing and that even when Xenos are featured in main GW story advancements they get dropped/beaten/stalemated all the time (Gathering Storm, Third Sphere Expansion, Armageddon 2/3)
   
Made in tw
Been Around the Block





 Gert wrote:
TBH it was more a commentary on the overabundance of SM in GW's marketing and that even when Xenos are featured in main GW story advancements they get dropped/beaten/stalemated all the time (Gathering Storm, Third Sphere Expansion, Armageddon 2/3)

I mean, there really is no issue for some xenos factions losing to the imperium as the latter is literally the poster boy of GW, but yes, I could see what you’re saying, take the Phoenix Rising for example. Although what I’m saying is at the very least GW hasn’t gone as far as to UTTERLY piss on some xenos big names aside for the obvious instances of swarmlord (who’s all hype and gets trashed all the time) and the avatar of khaine.
   
Made in us
Roarin' Runtherd




I'd say that Azzy has a decent chance against the other marines, and if escaping them is an option, I'd recommend he endeavor to take it. Leaders of Armies are not supposed to be beatsticks, that's a Champion's job, their job is to be intelligent and commanding.

Hell I'd say give them their respective armies and see how that particular battle goes. It would honestly be a better test for them save for the Dark Eldar and the Chaos guys who IMO are Champions more than Chaos Lords. TBH the number of enemy CSM Gulliman or the number of tanks/Marines Swarmlord pulps is honestly some of the least important things about them as a commander. and how they use their respective armies.

Hell in trials of Azrael, its his knowledge and perception that allow him to succeed, he doesn't trash Kharn, he fends off the Berzerker and eventually escapes him. He then reunites with his Chapter but does in a Lord of Change by knowing its True Name and binds it in place until Kharn comes along and does the work for him. He defeats a Daemon posing as a child by putting the obvious together. That is significantly preferable to just bolter porn and flat characters. Besides a being a General is a very complicated job, and being a chapter master even more so, the vast majority of his work should be based around ensuring his marines are where they need to be, that they are supplied and that the appropriate cooperation between forces is occurring.
   
Made in tw
Been Around the Block





panzerfront14 wrote:
I'd say that Azzy has a decent chance against the other marines, and if escaping them is an option, I'd recommend he endeavor to take it. Leaders of Armies are not supposed to be beatsticks, that's a Champion's job, their job is to be intelligent and commanding.

Hell I'd say give them their respective armies and see how that particular battle goes. It would honestly be a better test for them save for the Dark Eldar and the Chaos guys who IMO are Champions more than Chaos Lords. TBH the number of enemy CSM Gulliman or the number of tanks/Marines Swarmlord pulps is honestly some of the least important things about them as a commander. and how they use their respective armies.

Hell in trials of Azrael, its his knowledge and perception that allow him to succeed, he doesn't trash Kharn, he fends off the Berzerker and eventually escapes him. He then reunites with his Chapter but does in a Lord of Change by knowing its True Name and binds it in place until Kharn comes along and does the work for him. He defeats a Daemon posing as a child by putting the obvious together. That is significantly preferable to just bolter porn and flat characters. Besides a being a General is a very complicated job, and being a chapter master even more so, the vast majority of his work should be based around ensuring his marines are where they need to be, that they are supplied and that the appropriate cooperation between forces is occurring.

Yes, we all know he's a prep master and a commander kind of guy... but this is a meele list, he has to engage each of the combatants in a straight up fight in different, independent rounds. How's he gonna fare against each of them in a duel to the death?
   
Made in it
Perfect Shot Dark Angels Predator Pilot





Sesto San Giovanni, Italy

Azrael will fight a little to fend them off the time necessary for the Deathwing to go fetch and heretic with information on the Fallen, then he goes away.

The other will think they've won and that Azrael run away. He knows better.

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Made in tw
Been Around the Block





 Cybtroll wrote:
Azrael will fight a little to fend them off the time necessary for the Deathwing to go fetch and heretic with information on the Fallen, then he goes away.

The other will think they've won and that Azrael run away. He knows better.

Did you even read the topic? It's Azrael facing EACH of the opponents from the list in INDEPENDENT, RESPECTIVE duels. He cannot use the same tactic he pulled on Kharn or stuff, it's a fight to the death for each round, and each round's result does not affect the next hence why I called them INDEPENDENT. Sheesh.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/13 08:42:45


 
   
Made in se
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





I don't know Mandrake Kheradruakh so can't say about him. Pretty sure Azrael would lose against everyone else on this list. The closest fight might be Calgar, altough being a primaris gives him an advantage.

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