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Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





Hey Dakka Chaos Space Marine players,

Just letting you all know me and my bro have been playing 2000 point games where Chaos Marines have 2 wounds for 18 points. You don't have to wait for GW, just start playing that way till codex comes out. We did and were not looking back. You can do it too! We both agree with the other 9th books being out and playing against them it actually balances the game out quite nicely. If your opponent at your local store/event wont let you play that way, just tell him your doing it because your 9th codex got delayed *shrug*

   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord





In My Lab

For a casual game, I definitely agree that’d work.

I don’t think that’d fly at a tournament, though.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







I've just been playing 30k.

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
Homebrew oldhammer project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790996.page#10896267
Meridian: Necromunda-based 40k skirmish: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/795374.page 
   
Made in dk
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker






 Black Knight wrote:
Chaos Marines have 2 wounds for 18 points.

In what world is CSM Chapter Tactics + DttFE equivalent to Chapter Tactics + Combat Doctrines and Super Doctrines? They shouldn't cost more than 17.
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







 vict0988 wrote:
 Black Knight wrote:
Chaos Marines have 2 wounds for 18 points.

In what world is CSM Chapter Tactics + DttFE equivalent to Chapter Tactics + Combat Doctrines and Super Doctrines? They shouldn't cost more than 17.


Homebrew tax. If you write any homebrew rules you need to make sure they're obviously weaker than the official rules or other players' responses will go to "You're just trying to cheat!" and they'll refuse to play the game.

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
Homebrew oldhammer project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790996.page#10896267
Meridian: Necromunda-based 40k skirmish: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/795374.page 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




CSM are still terrible with 2 wounds. It improves other units a lot to get an additional wound (e.x. havocs, berserkers, terminators etc), but vanilla CSM are junk no matter how many wounds they have. You could honestly make them 2W and still only cost 14 points and they'd still be bad.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/13 19:11:07


 
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought




The dark hollows of Kentucky

yukishiro1 wrote:
CSM are still terrible with 2 wounds. It improves other units a lot to get an additional wound (e.x. havocs, berserkers, terminators etc), but vanilla CSM are junk no matter how many wounds they have. You could honestly make them 2W and still only cost 14 points and they'd still be bad.

Eh, for that price you could take a chaincannon and a combi-bolter for the Aspiring Champion and have the same stats as Intercessors minus the additional attack, but with more firepower, for less points. Are Intercessors bad now? They'd definitely be bad at 18 PPM without actually useful Legion traits though.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Intercessors get transhuman, better base guns, an additional AP in tactical, an additional attack, better chapter tactics, super doctrines, etc etc.

CSM are just terrible, unfortunately. They'd wouldn't be good even if they got the extra wound for free. They need a big datasheet revamp, they just fundamentally don't really do anything.
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought




The dark hollows of Kentucky

yukishiro1 wrote:
Intercessors get transhuman, better base guns, an additional AP in tactical, an additional attack, better chapter tactics, super doctrines, etc etc.

CSM are just terrible, unfortunately. They'd wouldn't be good even if they got the extra wound for free. They need a big datasheet revamp, they just fundamentally don't really do anything.

Agreed on the doctrines, Legion traits, and attack. But the additional weapons I mentioned, for less points, would make up for the guns.

And CSM don't have Transhuman, but Night Lords have In Midnight Clad, which is better against S4 or less, because it actually does something, equal or better against S5-7 depending on the BS of whatever is shooting at you, but worse against S8 and higher. But if you're shooting your AT guns at my infantry instead of my tanks and dreadnoughts, that's fine. But they'd definitely be bad at 2W at 18 PPM. 14 I could work with.
   
Made in dk
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker






 AnomanderRake wrote:
 vict0988 wrote:
 Black Knight wrote:
Chaos Marines have 2 wounds for 18 points.

In what world is CSM Chapter Tactics + DttFE equivalent to Chapter Tactics + Combat Doctrines and Super Doctrines? They shouldn't cost more than 17.


Homebrew tax. If you write any homebrew rules you need to make sure they're obviously weaker than the official rules or other players' responses will go to "You're just trying to cheat!" and they'll refuse to play the game.

Totally fair, I am just pointing out that there is a tax being paid, whether that is 1 pt or 4 pts IDK. The change to make them 2W solves a fairly large problem in the consistency of the narrative and rules of 40k and I would say that it is worth it to pay the homebrew tax for it if your opponent lets you. At the same time I don't think there is anything wrong with saying no, homebrew is often messy.
   
Made in us
Pulsating Possessed Space Marine of Slaanesh




But seriously... there’s no chosen kit. Why on earth don’t we just take chosen off the elites slot and make those the new csm squad? No kit no rules and all... I mean at least the troop slot will be decent at either shooting (plasma? Combibolters?) or close combat... and it’s a troop.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I mean this in response to how crappy csm squads are.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/14 05:02:39


Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. -Kurt Vonnegut 
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







 vict0988 wrote:
 AnomanderRake wrote:
 vict0988 wrote:
 Black Knight wrote:
Chaos Marines have 2 wounds for 18 points.

In what world is CSM Chapter Tactics + DttFE equivalent to Chapter Tactics + Combat Doctrines and Super Doctrines? They shouldn't cost more than 17.


Homebrew tax. If you write any homebrew rules you need to make sure they're obviously weaker than the official rules or other players' responses will go to "You're just trying to cheat!" and they'll refuse to play the game.

Totally fair, I am just pointing out that there is a tax being paid, whether that is 1 pt or 4 pts IDK. The change to make them 2W solves a fairly large problem in the consistency of the narrative and rules of 40k and I would say that it is worth it to pay the homebrew tax for it if your opponent lets you. At the same time I don't think there is anything wrong with saying no, homebrew is often messy.


Homebrew rules are inherently messy because there's no way to do enough playtesting. I don't think you should say "yeah, sure!" to anyone who comes up to you for a pick-up game and asks to use homebrew rules, but at the same time saying "no homebrew rules ever" is perpetuating the same chicken/egg cycle of messy homebrew rules, because they've got to be played messy to become un-messy.

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
Homebrew oldhammer project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790996.page#10896267
Meridian: Necromunda-based 40k skirmish: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/795374.page 
   
 
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