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Made in us
Blessed Living Saint




On the Internet

The player's code:


Honestly I rather like it (especially the part of reminding your opponent about rules your opponent forgot), but I'm all for hearing other opinions on if we should adopt this even if 40k doesn't adopt this in the rule book.
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

Frankly, it won't matter if they do or don't adopt it. There's too many garbage people in this hobby at this point and they've gotten away with too much in the competitive scene to justify a "code" now.
   
Made in us
Blessed Living Saint




On the Internet

 Kanluwen wrote:
Frankly, it won't matter if they do or don't adopt it. There's too many garbage people in this hobby at this point and they've gotten away with too much in the competitive scene to justify a "code" now.

I mean I'd rather watch the toxic people out themselves and burn their armies in response than them stay in the hobby, but okay.
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Frankly, it won't matter if they do or don't adopt it. There's too many garbage people in this hobby at this point and they've gotten away with too much in the competitive scene to justify a "code" now.

I mean I'd rather watch the toxic people out themselves and burn their armies in response than them stay in the hobby, but okay.

I would too, but most of the really bad people? They don't flare out. They keep going and do nothing but generate exhaustion in the rest of the community they're in.
   
Made in us
Blessed Living Saint




On the Internet

 Kanluwen wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Frankly, it won't matter if they do or don't adopt it. There's too many garbage people in this hobby at this point and they've gotten away with too much in the competitive scene to justify a "code" now.

I mean I'd rather watch the toxic people out themselves and burn their armies in response than them stay in the hobby, but okay.

I would too, but most of the really bad people? They don't flare out. They keep going and do nothing but generate exhaustion in the rest of the community they're in.

Fair point! Still nice when people out their toxicity like what happened with that whole "can Space Marines be black?" thing.
   
Made in de
Dakka Veteran



Bamberg / Erlangen

Didn't know this existed, but we always played like that. At least during games where I participated in.

Reads like basic etiquette between human beings, to be honest.

Grey Knights Imperial Guard Space Marines
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





If nothing else they could put this stuff in the chapter approved packets.

Really it's just a list of things I personally take for granted as a human raised in a society put into writing for those who were apparently raised by wolves or sociopaths.
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Frankly, it won't matter if they do or don't adopt it. There's too many garbage people in this hobby at this point and they've gotten away with too much in the competitive scene to justify a "code" now.

I mean I'd rather watch the toxic people out themselves and burn their armies in response than them stay in the hobby, but okay.

I would too, but most of the really bad people? They don't flare out. They keep going and do nothing but generate exhaustion in the rest of the community they're in.

Fair point! Still nice when people out their toxicity like what happened with that whole "can Space Marines be black?" thing.

Or the "But...but...the fleet officer's a G-G-GUUUUUUUUUUUUURL?!?!" nonsense.

I don't know how you solve all these problems. They're not strictly GW problems, they're failures on the parts of the individuals or their upbringing.
   
Made in us
Blessed Living Saint




On the Internet

a_typical_hero wrote:
Didn't know this existed, but we always played like that. At least during games where I participated in.

Reads like basic etiquette between human beings, to be honest.

It sounds like it, but that recently Necro'd thread about LOS contained a post about not reminding your opponent about their rules because it's "their fault" if they forget.
   
Made in ie
Pustulating Plague Priest





Its like a family friendly version of Page 5 from Warmachine


 
   
Made in us
Blessed Living Saint




On the Internet

 Kanluwen wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Frankly, it won't matter if they do or don't adopt it. There's too many garbage people in this hobby at this point and they've gotten away with too much in the competitive scene to justify a "code" now.

I mean I'd rather watch the toxic people out themselves and burn their armies in response than them stay in the hobby, but okay.

I would too, but most of the really bad people? They don't flare out. They keep going and do nothing but generate exhaustion in the rest of the community they're in.

Fair point! Still nice when people out their toxicity like what happened with that whole "can Space Marines be black?" thing.

Or the "But...but...the fleet officer's a G-G-GUUUUUUUUUUUUURL?!?!" nonsense.

I don't know how you solve all these problems. They're not strictly GW problems, they're failures on the parts of the individuals or their upbringing.

GW can at least try to create a communityt that says "you can't be more than this toxic to ride the bus". Now if the toxic people want to go have a toxic circle jerk on their own that's one thing, but this can help empower people to put their foot down more.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Sim-Life wrote:
Its like a family friendly version of Page 5 from Warmachine

AKA what page 5 should have been instead of talking about having balls and playing "hard".

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/14 20:36:14


 
   
Made in de
Dakka Veteran



Bamberg / Erlangen

 ClockworkZion wrote:
It sounds like it, but that recently Necro'd thread about LOS contained a post about not reminding your opponent about their rules because it's "their fault" if they forget.

I see... didn't read that thread.

I get that it becomes tedious to remind people about basic rules and profiles again and again when they already play the game for some time (sometimes years), but willfully not reminding them feels cheap.

You don't have to give them tactical advice how to beat you (unless you are training a new player how to play the game, then you should), but not reminding them if something is obviously the right rule to use now is not right imho. Example: Forgetting Feel no pain rolls.

Grey Knights Imperial Guard Space Marines
 
   
Made in us
Sneaky Striking Scorpion




North Carolina

 ClockworkZion wrote:
The player's code:


Honestly I rather like it (especially the part of reminding your opponent about rules your opponent forgot), but I'm all for hearing other opinions on if we should adopt this even if 40k doesn't adopt this in the rule book.


Is it not kosher to complain about bad luck? I mean, if you do it excessively I'm sure it gets annoying (I know I'm guilty of it). But so is excessive bad luck

I try to keep it more as "remarking" than complaining (really, when the luck is skewed one way or the other for me or my opponent). I mean, it's a dice game, that can and will be the make or break.

ETA: Otherwise, this is really good, if obvious at times.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/14 20:48:45


 
   
Made in gb
Warning From Magnus? Not Listening!






Spoiler:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
The player's code:


Honestly I rather like it (especially the part of reminding your opponent about rules your opponent forgot), but I'm all for hearing other opinions on if we should adopt this even if 40k doesn't adopt this in the rule book.

Yeah, absolutely this should be included.
But on the flip side, I don't think a single rule in there isn't just common courtesy to someone you aren't familiar with or even are familiar with, and the fact that this kind of thing needs to be included in a rulebook for a hobby is pretty sad.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/14 20:52:33


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Central California

My group doesn't need a set of rules to remind themselves to be polite, courteous, fun players. It's why most like-minded players have groups they go with. So, that said here's my two cents on these things:

They can do this, but it would be pointless. Let's be honest, the people breaking these "rules" know it and won't give a rip about them anyway. Your comments about "outing" themselves come from a hopeful idea, but they're doing it already so this changes nothing. Cheating at the game IS cheating without a reminder. Hiding dice, etc etc.
The reasons are too complex for this thread, and will not change. (go study books on empathy, or the lack of it in people)

People who go by these basic tenants of politeness do not need to be reminded of them, and those who don't certainly won't care about "enforcing" them.

And if this is really a "you should play the way I do" post...well, I suspect you know better.

Keeping the hobby side alive!

I never forget the Dakka unit scale is binary: Units are either OP or Garbage. 
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

GW can at least try to create a communityt that says "you can't be more than this toxic to ride the bus". Now if the toxic people want to go have a toxic circle jerk on their own that's one thing, but this can help empower people to put their foot down more.

I mean this in the nicest way possible:

Without giving some actual teeth to these kinds of things? A simple "don't be jerks to each other" statement doesn't help empower people enough. Most people cannot (and I'm going to honestly sympathize here with it, as I've had to go through it myself) be bothered with the drama or the harassment that can manifest from dealing with some of these people.

The best we can hope for at this point is massive reworks to the fluff+gameplay to make stuff less appealing to them.
   
Made in us
Stealthy Grot Snipa





Atlanta, GA

 Gert wrote:
Spoiler:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
The player's code:


Honestly I rather like it (especially the part of reminding your opponent about rules your opponent forgot), but I'm all for hearing other opinions on if we should adopt this even if 40k doesn't adopt this in the rule book.

Yeah, absolutely this should be included.
But on the flip side, I don't think a single rule in there isn't just common courtesy to someone you aren't familiar with or even are familiar with, and the fact that this kind of thing needs to be included in a rulebook for a hobby is pretty sad.


I don't think it's sad, I think it's a great way to include a gentle reminder that at the end of the day we're all moving plastic toy soldiers around a table, and that being a courteous human being is the least you can do as an opponent.
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

 Gene St. Ealer wrote:

Is it not kosher to complain about bad luck? I mean, if you do it excessively I'm sure it gets annoying (I know I'm guilty of it). But so is excessive bad luck

I try to keep it more as "remarking" than complaining (really, when the luck is skewed one way or the other for me or my opponent). I mean, it's a dice game, that can and will be the make or break.

ETA: Otherwise, this is really good, if obvious at times.

There's a difference between a few dramatic "DIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICE!" moments in the game where both people are having a good laugh about it and constantly saying "Well, you wouldn't have been able to do that if you were rolling like me!" or comments that basically make it sound like your opponent is only doing well because of luck/dice.

You can reach a point, IMO, where it makes it feel less like you're feeling shafted by the Dice Gods and more that the other person was garbage and only won because of dice. Nothing got on my nerves as much as when someone would go out of their way to make a comment like "Well if you hadn't been rolling great, you wouldn't have won!". That's usually when it became "Alright, shut up and reset then. We're swapping armies and having another game" if there was time.
   
Made in us
Blessed Living Saint




On the Internet

 Kanluwen wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:

GW can at least try to create a communityt that says "you can't be more than this toxic to ride the bus". Now if the toxic people want to go have a toxic circle jerk on their own that's one thing, but this can help empower people to put their foot down more.

I mean this in the nicest way possible:

Without giving some actual teeth to these kinds of things? A simple "don't be jerks to each other" statement doesn't help empower people enough. Most people cannot (and I'm going to honestly sympathize here with it, as I've had to go through it myself) be bothered with the drama or the harassment that can manifest from dealing with some of these people.

The best we can hope for at this point is massive reworks to the fluff+gameplay to make stuff less appealing to them.

There is only so much teeth GW can provide. Giving some kind of written "this is what should be expected of you to play" gives teeth to people who might be less willing to say something when there isn't a written guideline. From what I've seen when there are some kind of rules in place establishing a player's code people are more willing to say something than when there aren't.
   
Made in ca
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot



Canada

Looks like a good code of conduct. I think it’s fine to have a fun moment when the dice do something non-statistical. Like to fail a 4” charge with a reroll is worthy of a glance skyward.

The bit about asking permission to use unpainted models will likely lead to outcry with some folks on Dakka.

All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




I really love this! Thank you for sharing. I would say 40k should include this, or something like it, but lets be honest, 40k is a completely different crowd than AoS. It's like Wow vs Everquest. Or Star Wars vs LoTR. One is all about laid back, "it's just a game" and one is "RAW!!! according to paragraph 3 on page 256, of subsection A.1.f, I can place my repulsors on top of this building like so, and you are not allowed to charge or fight them!"

See the difference? One is about playing a game and having fun, the other is about arguing over intent until one player flat out quits. It's also why there is no real big AoS Tournament scene like there is with 40k. It's just not as competitive.
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
Looks like a good code of conduct. I think it’s fine to have a fun moment when the dice do something non-statistical. Like to fail a 4” charge with a reroll is worthy of a glance skyward.

The bit about asking permission to use unpainted models will likely lead to outcry with some folks on Dakka.

Real-talk:
Does it matter if it leads to outcry?

Most people, in real life, will likely not give a crap unless they're doing some kind of active stream or whatever...in which case for many areas they likely have to get your consent to be on camera anyways.
   
Made in no
Huge Bone Giant





Bergen

Yes.

But in Norway all those points are just common curtesy though.

The fact that they need to be spelled out is just rough.

I am a dyslectic, so bear with me.

Dyslectics in a text based environment? Dakka is aware of you and sympathises with any troubles you have: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/505863.page

Kronos biovore box fresh sporemines. Denying psykick powers since 2017.

 
   
Made in fr
Regular Dakkanaut




Are some of you guys really thinking that such a code is useful ?

I routinely play on the Internet where much more drastic rules are imposed upon the players AND are enforced with harsh decision (aka : a very real risk of being permanently banned) and nobody cares.

Everyone is aware of the code of conduct (you are forced to read it and sign it) and nobody listens to it. Basic politeness means that most people don't need it. And the ones who do need it simply don't care.

This player's code is not enforced by GW in any way (except, perhaps, in their own events) and other events already have something akin to this code (and is enforced by TO's or equivalents).

This code is utterly useless. If GW wants to put it in 40K, why not, it's just one page. But it is still useless.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/14 21:28:32


 
   
Made in us
Blessed Living Saint




On the Internet

Selfcontrol wrote:
Are some of you guys really thinking that such a code is useful ?

I routinely play on the Internet where much more drastic rules are imposed upon the players AND are enforced with harsh decision (aka : a very real risk of being permanently banned) and nobody cares.

Everyone is aware of the code of conduct (you are forced to read it and sign it) and nobody listens to it. Basic politeness means that most people don't need it. And the ones who do need it simply don't care.

This player's code is not enforced by GW in any way (except, perhaps, in their own events) and other events already have something akin to this code (and is enforced by TO's or equivalents).

This code is utterly useless. If GW wants to put it in 40K, why not, it's just one page. But it is still useless.


Internet has one drastic difference than real life: no real personal repercussions. Big difference getting banned online and getting banned from your FLGS.
   
Made in fr
Regular Dakkanaut




People were already being banned from their FLGS without such code.
   
Made in us
Slaanesh Veteran Marine with Tentacles





Yes. It might not do much for the worst cases, but that doesn't mean it's not worthwhile to include. Some younger players might be able to use the lesson or reminder.

 the_scotsman wrote:
"here's this faction that we've turned into a gigantic uber-customizable metagolem of infinite customizability, you can have them in a car on the ground in a plane, in every conceivable playstyle that exists in the game, every single represented aesthetic, ninety-trillion different armor marks and styles, historical inspirations, every color in the rainbow, every race and culture of humanity...

...but you CANT make them ladies. that is the sacred line across which we must throw our bodies and souls! Space Marines can be every conceivable configuration of 'your dudes' imaginable, SO LONG AS YOU DO NOT IMAGINE THEM AS YOUR DUDETTES!"
 
   
Made in us
Blessed Living Saint




On the Internet

Selfcontrol wrote:
People were already being banned from their FLGS without such code.

That's because FLGS have their own codes. This is giving a code that is the same for everyone to everyone so they can go into the game expecting a base level of decency and arms them to be able to call out toxicity better when they don't have an FLGS' code to fall back on. Like pick up games, or garagehammer groups where people might be more reluctant to rock the boat. Plus you could see it as GW finally adopting a player's code for their own stores.

Just because it does nothing for you personally doesn't make it worthless.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






I don't really see how a few bullet points of 'don't be a dick' are likely to help those who apparently play in some sort of dystopian hellscape where people are cheating with abandon.
Nor do I really see that they're necessary for those of us who play in amongst civilised society.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/14 21:55:27


 
   
Made in gb
Warning From Magnus? Not Listening!






Some people need reminding of how to behave sometimes, especially kids. Sure 1/10 people or whatever might always be a problem but if there are official guidelines that groups and stores can outline created by the game designers then people tend to stick to those rules. Casual, chilled environments rarely last IME and until someone sets down the law, a lot of things will just get waved off.
   
 
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