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Made in tw
Been Around the Block





Well, at this point I think it's generally agreed that the Emperor didn't quite regard the primarchs as his sons, and frankly the only reason he allowed them to address him as "father" was owing to the fact that it would be a much easier way to keep the leash on them, or perhaps for someone as old and dedicated as him, the term "father" and other aspects of family & relations just do not matter.
That aside, if we see the custodes, thunder warriors, primarchs, and astartes as nothing more than big E's toy collection to help him further his goals and achieve galactic domination, who would be his "favorite tool"? Was it perhaps, Constantine Valdor? Was there any source indicating that the Emepror deemed him as more valuable than some of the primarchs?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/18 14:24:59


 
   
Made in fr
Longtime Dakkanaut






I think the emprah had good intentions at first, but being immortal and seeing every die maybe just made it hard to care for people as it hurt when they died, and after a while he became numb to them and unable to really care.

I also think the emprah has reached a point where his goal is what matters, not really humanity.

"But the universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed..." 
   
Made in us
Stalwart Tribune




Bath

 Cognitive wrote:
Well, at this point I think it's generally agreed that the Emperor didn't quite regard the primarchs as his sons, and frankly the only reason he allowed them to address him as "father" was owing to the fact that it would be a much easier way to keep the leash on them, or perhaps for someone as old and dedicated as him, the term "father" and other aspects of family & relations just do not matter.
That aside, if we see the custodes, thunder warriors, primarchs, and astartes as nothing more than big E's toy collection to help him further his goals and achieve galactic domination, who would be his "favorite tool"? Was it perhaps, Constantine Valdor? Was there any source indicating that the Emepror deemed him as more valuable than some of the primarchs?


I think matt has it right, he's seen so many mortals come and go hes really isnt attached to any of them. That, and hes so far removed form the normal human experience, or even that of the primarchs, he honestly has very little in common with them. Hes just as alien to them as a eldar or a necron.

i think the only people he still thinks of as his peers is the other perpetuals.

Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.
"Tommy", Rudyard Kipling
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Made in se
Dakka Veteran




Sweden

 Matt Swain wrote:
I think the emprah had good intentions at first, but being immortal and seeing every die maybe just made it hard to care for people as it hurt when they died, and after a while he became numb to them and unable to really care.

I also think the emprah has reached a point where his goal is what matters, not really humanity.


Aye, spot on.

   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





The primarchs were created to lead armies of men, the astartes were created from the genetic remains of the primarchs after they were stolen.

The astartes were due for deletion, like thunder warriors, but I think the primarchs were there for the long haul.

Custodes were a different tool, you can’t say that a hammer is better than a screw driver because it depends on the job. They were created for protection.
   
Made in gb
Stalwart Tribune





Northumberland

He is but a cold uncaring god that shepherds us from cradle to grave.

Difficult to have peers when you do that sort of thing. They all have a purpose and their main use is whatever is necessary at the time.

It's hard to humanise with something that isn't really.

One and a half feet in the hobby


My Adeptus Mechanicus Painting Log:
# The Explorator Fleet of Labrunnia IX #

 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




In one of the Dark Imperium Guy Haley novels, Guilliman is asked whether the Emperor really loves them. Guilliman says yes, but privately in his own thoughts, he thinks no, the Emperor does not. The Emperor loves humanity, or rather an idea of humanity, but every individual, even a Primarch, is a tool and ultimately expendable in pursuit of advancing or safeguarding that abstract ideal.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/19 10:02:58


 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

The Emperor loves you, but its not the same love that you feel for the Emperor; nor is his love the same of a parent to a child.


As noted the Emperor was more for the good of Mankind as a species rather than as an individual. His unique state of prolonged life also meant that he likely was detached on some level from humanity around him.

   
Made in fr
Longtime Dakkanaut






The emprah's big weakness was that he was unable to consider the views, opinions, feelings, etc of anyone else. He saw people solely as things to be made to fit into his plan, or be destroyed if they were inconvenient.

His callous disregard for angron's loyalty to his men was a prime example of this.

He didn't see people, he just saw his plan. All he saw was the big picture, forgetting that the big picture is made of pixels, and people are those pixels.

It's a forrest vs the trees thing, you can't have a healthy forrest and not give a feth about the trees,

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/21 16:41:04


"But the universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed..." 
   
Made in fr
Stalwart Tribune





Wasn't Malcador the Emperor's BFF?

But yeah, the big guy didn't seem to care much about what his "sons" wanted or not. He made them all his generals because that's what he'd planned for them in the first place, never mind how their adoptive families raised them... It's like he was forcing a square peg into a round hole because he couldn't understand that the peg had been reshaped after he made it.
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





Take another immortal and powerful being from popculture like Apocalypse in X-Men, who had lived so long he no longer really saw people as people.

Now octuple his age and you've got the emperor. By the Great Crusade the emperor was pushing 40,000 years old and his overriding drive was to secure the future of humanity.

THis is a very Emperor Leto form Dune style of long term thinking to protect the species of humanity from extinction.

He seemed to be far more directly active in guiding humanity in the last few hundred years before being interned on the golden throne. Which to me seemed more like a final desperation move after millennia of trying small things. He started taking bigger swings and acting out grander plans on a galactic scale in order to secure humanity's future.

IMO only a being specifically created for the purpose of saving humanity could be that psychopathically obsessed with this concept for so long (hence the shaman new man is to me the true origin of the emperor). No human born with the mind of a human but the lifespan of eternity would be able to maintain such a single focused goal for 40,000 years...

Any way, no, his mind was so focused on its abstract goal and so jaded by such a long existence that to expect him to act like a normal person is a folly.

   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Hellebore wrote:
Take another immortal and powerful being from popculture like Apocalypse in X-Men, who had lived so long he no longer really saw people as people.

Now octuple his age and you've got the emperor. By the Great Crusade the emperor was pushing 40,000 years old and his overriding drive was to secure the future of humanity.

THis is a very Emperor Leto form Dune style of long term thinking to protect the species of humanity from extinction.

He seemed to be far more directly active in guiding humanity in the last few hundred years before being interned on the golden throne. Which to me seemed more like a final desperation move after millennia of trying small things. He started taking bigger swings and acting out grander plans on a galactic scale in order to secure humanity's future.

IMO only a being specifically created for the purpose of saving humanity could be that psychopathically obsessed with this concept for so long (hence the shaman new man is to me the true origin of the emperor). No human born with the mind of a human but the lifespan of eternity would be able to maintain such a single focused goal for 40,000 years...

Any way, no, his mind was so focused on its abstract goal and so jaded by such a long existence that to expect him to act like a normal person is a folly.



I too subscribe to the idea that the Emperor was getting desperate when he came out in the open and started acting overtly. Then maybe even to his own surprise, it seemed to be working. There is nothing like rapid great success to breed arrogance and hubris. Then with the Emperor more focused on the forest than the trees, the individual problems of the primarchs were dismissed or put in the "I'll handle that later" box, in the rush to get to the next step of the grand plan.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





The emperors great failure was to try and not be viewed as a god by humanity, I don’t think they could see him as anything else, especially as he was happy to sacrifice billions for a greater good. His behaviour was that of a superior being but if he forces people to think of him as just another mortal the they would have to see him as a murderer eventually. So they chose to see him as a god rather than a murderer wether he liked it or not.

If he had embraced that and given his sons the position of lesser gods on his pantheon then it might have all been ok.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




The Emperor's inability to regard his sons as full human beings created many of his problems. He got what he deserved. It's a pity everyone else had to suffer for it.
   
Made in gb
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Hecaton wrote:
The Emperor's inability to regard his sons as full human beings created many of his problems. He got what he deserved. It's a pity everyone else had to suffer for it.


The opposite is also true. If he hadn’t gone down the fatherly route, then his aloofness might’ve been better received.

In the mythical sense, he could’ve explained that like the Abrahamic god, they were his angels, rather than sons. Beings created to carry out His will. That they were there to serve humanity, just as He was.

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Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Except he never served humanity. He decided that he knows best what'sgood for HIS vision of humanity, and damn what humanity wants. He was as much of an alien invader as an ork.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Hecaton wrote:
The Emperor's inability to regard his sons as full human beings created many of his problems. He got what he deserved. It's a pity everyone else had to suffer for it.


The opposite is also true. If he hadn’t gone down the fatherly route, then his aloofness might’ve been better received.

In the mythical sense, he could’ve explained that like the Abrahamic god, they were his angels, rather than sons. Beings created to carry out His will. That they were there to serve humanity, just as He was.


But then he wouldn't have had the self-satisfaction if treating his sons like pawns. Again, he got what he deserved.
   
 
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