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2021/08/02 21:41:35
Subject: Re:Why Don’t Marines Have Refractor Fields Built Into Their Armour?
Sorry mate, but SM are as concept quite stupid if you thing about their feasibility, because they are too big, heavy and loud to be efectively concealed or to trasverse by dense terrain... So they are basically useless as infantry troops beyond poster boy propaganda duty.
BTW hitting with artillery a target moving at 20MPH was not complicated in 1940...so imagine for Eldar, Taus or Necrons.
The best way to defend your space ship from a Marine assault is to have human size doors and corridors.
If you go beyond bolter porn marines make no sense.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/02 21:44:38
2021/08/02 23:01:21
Subject: Why Don’t Marines Have Refractor Fields Built Into Their Armour?
Camo works on tanks because tank combat engagement ranges are huge (1km or even further)... SM are supposed to engage at close quarters... Basic Camo on them will be mainly for aesthetic use... Even if they use some sort of high tech invisibility cloaking device the SM need to supress the huge noise a 300kg metal monster is going to produce when moving rapidly... Also SM use as a basic weapon an automatic high caliber self propelled rocket launcher (bolters) which also create huge noise, so every time they fire they will be inmediatly located from far away.
Basically a SM has the concealment and mobility capabilitiea of a Hummbee armed with a 50 cal... Imagine 10 of those doing a stealth mission... They are useless as infantry in a tactical sense.
From any feasible military POV SMs are a joke... All their "strenghts" (speed and durability) are surpass by far by their noisiness and inhability to conceal properly due to their huge size (not counting on their huge thermal and energy signal)... you shouldnt not overthink or take them seriously.
2021/08/03 05:44:22
Subject: Why Don’t Marines Have Refractor Fields Built Into Their Armour?
Vatsetis wrote: Camo works on tanks because tank combat engagement ranges are huge (1km or even further)... SM are supposed to engage at close quarters... Basic Camo on them will be mainly for aesthetic use... Even if they use some sort of high tech invisibility cloaking device the SM need to supress the huge noise a 300kg metal monster is going to produce when moving rapidly... Also SM use as a basic weapon an automatic high caliber self propelled rocket launcher (bolters) which also create huge noise, so every time they fire they will be inmediatly located from far away.
Weird considering Chapters like the Raven Guard and Raptors somehow manage to specialise in stealth warfare even before Primaris Phobos units were introduced. There are also weapons like Stalker Bolters that are specifically designed for sniper and stealth work.
Basically a SM has the concealment and mobility capabilitiea of a Hummbee armed with a 50 cal... Imagine 10 of those doing a stealth mission... They are useless as infantry in a tactical sense.
Yes because all infantry are stealth infantry.
From any feasible military POV SMs are a joke... All their "strenghts" (speed and durability) are surpass by far by their noisiness and inhability to conceal properly due to their huge size (not counting on their huge thermal and energy signal)... you shouldnt not overthink or take them seriously.
Almost like Astartes are used as rapid strike units intended for decapitation/seek and destroy missions rather than wandering through a jungle waiting for Genestealers to jump out of the trees.
And all of this is just wishfull thinking or simply fantasy... Imagine a SWAT team that is unable to trasverse a simple corridor because its members are just too big... Those are the SM.
40K is all about juvenile rule of cool power fantasies... it sound very "tactical" to speak about a stalker bolter which apparently wont make noise when fired ... until you realice that it cannot be a true bolter since those have incorporated selfpropelled ammunitions specifically designed to be noisy and conspicuous.
Is there any artwork of a marine doing something as simple as remaining prone and crawling? it is even possible with their stupidly oversized armour and muscled bodies?
After 1914 all infantry are either stealth infantry or dead infantry
Stealth SM make the same sense that Chainswords as a functional weapon... IE none... Infantry unable to trasverse dense terrain and remain conceal are mostly useless.
If a chaos or genestealer cult spreads on a hive city how are marines ment to fight them if they arent even able to exit the cargo bay for heavy equipment liftting areas... a simple staicase would be an uncoquerable tactical challenge.
The biggest plot armor of all 40K media is the fact that the universe (including hive cities, spaceships and forge worlds) seem to be designed specifically to allow 7ft and 500+ kg monsters to move arround with ease... even doe in universe SM are a tiny minority of human population.
From a combat perspective... Its irrelevant if you are tough, quick and strong if you arent unable to reach the area of operations without alerting everybody in a mile radious.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/03 07:04:40
2021/08/03 08:23:36
Subject: Why Don’t Marines Have Refractor Fields Built Into Their Armour?
mrFickle wrote: Isn’t the crux terminatus some sort of force field?
Automatically Appended Next Post: To be fair though with all the resources of the imperium you could probably equip a thousand SM with lascannons with no issue.
It would just be a boring story, probably.
Canon size of SM forces makes no sense ( a 1000 strong force would be insignificant in a planetary scale war).
Since they are a power fantasy rather than a sensible concept... SM are portrayed simultaneously as special forces super soldiers that can defeat even in small groups whole enemy armies (because reasons) and also as sort of mass produce and standarice military unit (at least the basic types such as Tacticals and Intercessors).
There is even a complete cognitive disonance between the tabletop and fluff representation of the SM´s.
If taken to practice the SM´s would be a complete military liability (not speaking in abstract, Im speaking in universe).
Exactly which work can be done better by the SM that cannot be tackled in a more efficient and economic manner by Scions and/or Assassins? Im speaking of special forces/strike stuff... for attritional warfare regular AM armies are 100 times better than marines.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/03 08:24:54
2021/08/03 09:27:37
Subject: Why Don’t Marines Have Refractor Fields Built Into Their Armour?
And how usefull is a shock assault troop that cant cross a doorway without blowing up half of the building in doing so?
Im curious as to when did the SM in the fluff gain their superspeed and reflexes... because I dont remember this gimmick (another layer of absurdity to make super agile a type of troop anatomically unable to simply lay prone) was in place in the old days of 2/3 edition. Just curious.
2021/08/03 11:13:07
Subject: Why Don’t Marines Have Refractor Fields Built Into Their Armour?
Vatsetis wrote: And how usefull is a shock assault troop that cant cross a doorway without blowing up half of the building in doing so?
Im curious as to when did the SM in the fluff gain their superspeed and reflexes... because I dont remember this gimmick (another layer of absurdity to make super agile a type of troop anatomically unable to simply lay prone) was in place in the old days of 2/3 edition. Just curious.
Are you deliberately using ridiculous hyperbole or do you actually think it's impossible for a Space Marine to walk through an average doorway?
Where does "anatomically unable to simply lay prone" come from? They're humanoid, not inverted tortoises.
I really wish I was joking, but is the plain truth... the doorway of my room is 70cm wide and 200cm high, a basic tactical Space Marine would have to crawl to get through and a Primaris will get stuck in it. I really doubt that my staircase will be able to put up with the 500kg plus with the high ground pressure of their combat boots without collapsing when the Marine comes storming upwards... so if this SM marine (and we are talking here of the tactical base smaller marine) wanted to engage me in hand to hand combat when Im in the second floor of my home (a regular joes place) the easiest way to do so would be to demolish the hole building. Seems quite a tactical liability to me.
SM are indeed humanoids but their armour dosent seem to be designed to do some thing as basic as allowing them to get prone without great effort.
SM are not practical to fight in any sensibly made human habitat. If you think about them for more than 10 seconds they are absurd. They go against basic physics and combat experience.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/03 11:13:56
2021/08/03 11:35:41
Subject: Why Don’t Marines Have Refractor Fields Built Into Their Armour?
Why would they bother fighting you in a house though? They'd just blow it up. It is bloody hilarious though imagining a bunch of marines trying to storm a bunker, come across a tiny door and go "awww dammit. Brother Titus get out the lube, this one is going to be a squeeze."
Yes it is hilarious and it is what would happen most of the time in universe. Why do human size enemies of the Spacemarines need to build their defences complexes in a scale that allows the SM to traverse their instalations with ease?
Space Marines as currently depicted by cannon arent unable to fight in 90% of the surface in human made instalations of a hivecity, spaceship or industrial complex... because of their stupidly big size, weight and footprint.
A Scion unit or an Assassin can do it without any problem.
Woa... Its very practical and "steallthy" to use a ton of bolter ammo or half a dozen of lascanon shoots just to reduce a small house into rubble... if instead of a detached building I live in an apartment block, would they call a battle barge to launch a planetary bombardement to tackle with me?
If SM exist only to mark the position for big guns, the Ratlings are the best SM in the galaxy.
SM are a joke outside Bolter Porn.
2021/08/03 13:09:46
Subject: Why Don’t Marines Have Refractor Fields Built Into Their Armour?
Are people really arguing against the simple fact that having at least 3 times more volume and being at least 5 times the weight than the regular human trooper the Space Marines are going to be in a clear tactical disadvantage when fighting in a human constructed settlement (not to mention a hivecity or spaceship)???
40k is fantasy in space, its satirical and nonsencical... Please dont try to give a cientific explanation to what is simply absurd if you think about it for 10 seconds.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/03 15:36:45
2021/08/03 15:55:37
Subject: Why Don’t Marines Have Refractor Fields Built Into Their Armour?
The Galaxy is very diverse, not everthing or even most of it has to be build so that Astartes can traverse it with ease. Certainly the Astartes enemies wont do that.
I dont know why secundary and mainteinance corridors in a hive city or a spacecraft would allow an Astartes to trasverse it... This is basic engineering.
To be clear, a facility must be built on porpouse so that Astartes can use it... And in doing so it would probably make things much larger and cost much more in time an resources.
Astartes are useless as infantry because they have the weight and manouvrebility of a vehicle/car... They are not of human scale, and thats a huge problem when figthing other non astartes humans.
If instead of Astartes we were talking about the stealth capabilities of Ogryns things would be clear... An a Primaris volume and weight is much nearer to an Ogryn than to an standard human.
So due to their stupid size and weight the SM are really handicapped for the sort of close quarters boarding action the lore says they excell in.
If things make any sense in 40K, the SM squad in the astartes fan made film would be stuck in the first room they arrive inside the ship.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/03 16:01:30
2021/08/03 18:03:54
Subject: Why Don’t Marines Have Refractor Fields Built Into Their Armour?
So marines make as much sense as a SWAT team that try to take by storm horse mounted a two height suburban house and therefore the only one in the group that is able to actually enter the objective room is the newbie that still havent earned his cavalry honors yet.
Yeap, perfectly reasonable.
2021/08/03 18:56:41
Subject: Why Don’t Marines Have Refractor Fields Built Into Their Armour?
Eldar are human size... Taus are smaller than humans... A variety of xenos races probably dont build their ships and installations oversized with the sole porpouse of allowing SM assaults.
In fluff SM are constantly fighting Genestealer cults and chaos cults that life concealed among the regular IOM population...
Yes the SM can easily break a narrow doorway, but if it has to slowly crawl along a regular corridor in some of the most tipical fluff battlefields (hive cities, forge worlds and space ships) all his superhuman abilities are rendered useless.
The ones that dont seem to enjoy the fantasy are those hellbent in overthinking all this nonsense and trying to find a justification for Marines oversize and overweight... It dosent exist, its very silly for marines to be so huge... Its over the top and impractical... I have no problem with that because I understand marines are just avatars for a power fantasy and with no regard to their obvious military drawbacks
2021/08/03 19:50:56
Subject: Why Don’t Marines Have Refractor Fields Built Into Their Armour?
Modern day guerrillas find ways to get advantage everytime over Western armies that are heavily dependant on their vehicules due to the restricted mobility this means for the high tech faction in tight enviroments. The 40k guerrillas would surely do the same.
In Spite all the handwaving and adhoc justifications many battlefields in the 40k galaxy are probably more tight and packed that the most dense areas of nowadays Hing Kong or Manila... Good luck organising a cavalry charge in those streets.
Eldar aspect warriors have a similar ptotection level to marines, also SOB... But this units have mostly human sizes and weights... Astartes on the other side are oversized and overweight just for the rule of cool... They might be good parade and terror troops but this gimmick renders them useless in most of the elite infantry roles. Just a moderate amount of rain and mud would put a lot of stress on their ability to move over open ground.
BTW scouts are being phased out of rules and fluff due to the primarization process which means doubling on this dumb "bigger is better" concept.
2021/08/03 20:41:01
Subject: Why Don’t Marines Have Refractor Fields Built Into Their Armour?
I know scouts "still" exist and that SM have a lot of firepower at their dispossal... I wasnt arguing against those points.
If a Space Marine force needs to used a specialiced unit as scouts or massive firepower to overcome an obstacle as simple as a narrow staircase my point is solidly established.
2021/08/03 20:52:41
Subject: Why Don’t Marines Have Refractor Fields Built Into Their Armour?
Even if they only need to move horizontally not all walls can be just breached... Buildings can colapse if done carelessly, you cant simply punch holes through an unknown enemy ship with out risking a major explosion... Some goes for many industrial instalations... Then again the origin if this debate was that marines could not be shealthy and all of your "solutions" require the use of noisy brute force... Thanks fir conceding on that point.
Having to breach holes of 2x2 meters wide in every wall sort of defeats the porpouse of a "fast" superhuman strike force.
Vatsetis wrote: I know scouts "still" exist and that SM have a lot of firepower at their dispossal... I wasnt arguing against those points.
If a Space Marine force needs to used a specialiced unit as scouts or massive firepower to overcome an obstacle as simple as a narrow staircase my point is solidly established.
They need a Powerfist which any traditional SM unit could carry. Or meltabomb, even Krak grenades maybe for lighter obstacles.
Sorry how those a meltabomb allows a 750kg armored monster that dosent fit a narrow stairway to reach the fith floor of a building?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/03 20:55:25
2021/08/03 22:59:20
Subject: Why Don’t Marines Have Refractor Fields Built Into Their Armour?
Vatsetis wrote: I know scouts "still" exist and that SM have a lot of firepower at their dispossal... I wasnt arguing against those points.
If a Space Marine force needs to used a specialiced unit as scouts or massive firepower to overcome an obstacle as simple as a narrow staircase my point is solidly established.
What point was that again? That you don't like space marines or the rules of the fictional universe that they reside in? If so, maybe you should find a fictional universe more to your liking. You sound like you would enjoy hard sci-fi of the military bent.
Ahh the classy... "If you dont like some isolated element of the setting or the game you should walk away" answer... I really like the empathy of 40k fanboys.
I enjoy the 40k for what it is (a young adult satire)... But I can also appreciate the absurdity of a setting where Space Marines are so big and heavy that they wouldnt be able to use a regular size human stairway or a lift and therefore would need to blow away half of the building just to arrive to the upper levels... Which makes them tactically dumb in many situations despite being the poster boy super soldiers.
Its funny and over the top if you think about it.
What I really cant understand is why some people seem to be so attached to their bolter porn preconceptions.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sgt_Smudge wrote: My point was more that the sheer force of an Astartes body will get through those walls - walking is a tad hyperbolic, but I have very little doubt that an Astartes with even a slight degree of directed force would struggle with a civilian-tier wall.
Which seems the perfect "tactic" to rush into an obvious trap (BTW the name of a classical 40k comic full of over the top action).
SM are not the MCU Iron Man, they can be dealt reasonably by a direct hit from a krak grenade launcher which in universe is a low tech and sort of common weapon system.
Space Marines dont have any particular advantage when delivering indiscriminate and raw firepower... Thats more the strenght of the AM or the Knight Houses... Yet again, "turning the building into rubble" is the default propossed solution when I put forward the most basic tactical challenge.
The use of this very underwhelming arguments just show how lackluster SM really are in universe.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/03 23:14:32
2021/08/03 23:19:21
Subject: Why Don’t Marines Have Refractor Fields Built Into Their Armour?
Im just answering those that pretend that the oversize and overweight of SM wont be a severe handicap in many feasible tactical situations.
Im not "complaning" nor demanding anything in this post... I have no problem with GW current depiction of marines in this regards, Im just stating that the whole concept cannot be taken seriously.
2021/08/03 23:38:27
Subject: Why Don’t Marines Have Refractor Fields Built Into Their Armour?
Vatsetis wrote: I know scouts "still" exist and that SM have a lot of firepower at their dispossal... I wasnt arguing against those points.
If a Space Marine force needs to used a specialiced unit as scouts or massive firepower to overcome an obstacle as simple as a narrow staircase my point is solidly established.
What point was that again? That you don't like space marines or the rules of the fictional universe that they reside in? If so, maybe you should find a fictional universe more to your liking. You sound like you would enjoy hard sci-fi of the military bent.
Ahh the classy... "If you dont like some isolated element of the setting or the game you should walk away" answer... I really like the empathy of 40k fanboys.
I enjoy the 40k for what it is (a young adult satire)... But I can also appreciate the absurdity of a setting where Space Marines are so big and heavy that they wouldnt be able to use a regular size human stairway or a lift and therefore would need to blow away half of the building just to arrive to the upper levels... Which makes them tactically dumb in many situations despite being the poster boy super soldiers.
Its funny and over the top if you think about it.
What I really cant understand is why some people seem to be so attached to their bolter porn preconceptions.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sgt_Smudge wrote: My point was more that the sheer force of an Astartes body will get through those walls - walking is a tad hyperbolic, but I have very little doubt that an Astartes with even a slight degree of directed force would struggle with a civilian-tier wall.
Which seems the perfect "tactic" to rush into an obvious trap (BTW the name of a classical 40k comic full of over the top action).
SM are not the MCU Iron Man, they can be dealt reasonably by a direct hit from a krak grenade launcher which in universe is a low tech and sort of common weapon system.
Space Marines dont have any particular advantage when delivering indiscriminate and raw firepower... Thats more the strenght of the AM or the Knight Houses... Yet again, "turning the building into rubble" is the default propossed solution when I put forward the most basic tactical challenge.
The use of this very underwhelming arguments just show how lackluster SM really are in universe.
I dunno man, you've been reduced to claiming "Marines are dumb because I pretend Scouts dont exist."
Thats a very gross misreading of my POV.
2021/08/03 23:48:26
Subject: Why Don’t Marines Have Refractor Fields Built Into Their Armour?
So it seems that Sgt_Smudge and I agree on the basics... But they are being confrontational just because they assume I have some sort of hidden agenda.
Im not here to win any fight, I simply like to debate and give my POV. Also its a good way to practice Eglish during the holidays
But simply stating that SM are silly because everything in the setting is silly is a very poor argument. If anything the SM background is very detailed so their silliness is much more visible.
Vatsetis wrote: BTW scouts are being phased out of rules and fluff due to the primarization process which means doubling on this dumb "bigger is better" concept.
Actually, Scouts still exist in all-Primaris Chapters. Just to clarify that.
What is the fluff reason for Phobos anyway?
Scouts are already meant be stealth and recon assets available to all chapters, so why have Phobos?
Phobos Marines are more experienced and have better equipment than Scouts. Additionally, they have more durability, and vacuum protection. Another reason as well is that Scouts are, for the most part, only in the 10th Company, with only minor cases where existing Astartes would don Scout armour. With Phobos Marines, any Astartes can wear Phobos armour, no matter which company, as and when the combat doctrine requires it.
It wouldn't be the first time that Space Marine Chapters had multiple units that fulfilled the same battlefield roles.
The real question would be why would marines used anything rather than phobos armor in most battlefield situations.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/03 23:53:53
2021/08/04 00:05:12
Subject: Why Don’t Marines Have Refractor Fields Built Into Their Armour?
I was under the impression that Primaris marines didnt pass a scout phase. Was I wrong? If not, are new scouts being currently trained in most SM chapters?
BTW stealth is a foreseable advantage in most combat situations... If phobos armor can be built en masse... They should be the standard pattern armor for SM.
With the exception of an already stablished melee extra speed and sealth is always going to be more usefull than extra protection.
It seem that also on the 40K universe offensive systems have won the race over defensive ones.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/04 00:17:04
2021/08/04 06:10:57
Subject: Why Don’t Marines Have Refractor Fields Built Into Their Armour?
Thats a very complex way to say that SM dont use refractor fields because of reasons.
Its also imply that all SM formations act under a perfect utilitarian military rationality, which is not the case.
Also if MkX armour is fully modular and costumizable then the inclusion of a refractor field option would be obvious.
In the old days the explanation might just be that refractor fields are not an easily reproduce technology for the IOM... (and that guards officers only afford them rarely through personal contacts)... Now that the IOM has gone through the Cawl industrial revolution its makes little sense.
2021/08/04 14:52:55
Subject: Why Don’t Marines Have Refractor Fields Built Into Their Armour?
Vatsetis wrote: Thats a very complex way to say that SM dont use refractor fields because of reasons.
Literally every answer ever given can be boiled down to that. You're not being smart just smarmy.
Its also imply that all SM formations act under a perfect utilitarian military rationality, which is not the case.
No it doesn't.
Also if MkX armour is fully modular and costumizable then the inclusion of a refractor field option would be obvious.
Mk.X is modular in that it can be swapped between Tacticus, Phobos and Gravis fairly easily.
In the old days the explanation might just be that refractor fields are not an easily reproduce technology for the IOM... (and that guards officers only afford them rarely through personal contacts)... Now that the IOM has gone through the Cawl industrial revolution its makes little sense.
I'm not sure you understand what an industrial revolution is. An industrial revolution would be a massive change from largely agricultural and small scale manufacturing (such as blacksmiths or cobblers) into huge scale industrial manufacturing.
If anything the Imperium has had a period of scientific enlightenment but even then I'd argue that finding old tech in STC's and using that doesn't count since the knowledge was already discovered, the Imperium just didn't have the blueprints. This scientific "advancement" only applies to SM as well, the Guard, Mechanicus, Knights and SoB didn't benefit from Cawl's works nor did any civilian sector.
Gert, I perfectly understand the meaning of an industrial revolution and was ussing it in an ironic manner.
Framing other posters word in such a manner as you do (IE butchering the words so they lost sense) just because you want a dialectic fight is sort of rude. If you find my POV annoying you are free to ignore my posts.
Since the thread continues, somebody described marines as man sized tanks that can support bigger tanks... This would be accurate but unfortunatly the ground pressure of a Marine is similar to street bike (IE much higher than a proper tank) , which means it is very limited as to which terrain it can traverse safely at speed.
GW made the aesthetic option of turning SM into giants to make them more anatomically proportioned, unfortunatly that makes them impractically oversized in universe.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/04 14:53:53
2021/08/04 15:24:57
Subject: Why Don’t Marines Have Refractor Fields Built Into Their Armour?
Not every thing in the setting is oversized like the marines... Regular size humans are 99% of the IOM population, Taus or Eldars have mostly reasonably sized designs.
SM have a comedic size and weight not only for the real world but also in universe... Please just compare them with the SOB design.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/04 15:25:15
2021/08/04 15:35:35
Subject: Why Don’t Marines Have Refractor Fields Built Into Their Armour?
Try to understand what your fellow posters are trying to state before answering in such a polemistic manner.
You cannot argue against the fact that SM are oversized in regards to regular humans becouse that is how they are depicted. The art also tend to show open spaces and architecture because is epic looking and if SM were portrayed interacting with human size buildings they would look comedic.
But if you think about it there is no reason why most of the galaxy human settlement need to be adapted to Astartes oversized and overweight, after all they are but a drop of water in a galaxy of trillions upun trillions of humans. Thats why in practical terms SM design is quite moroonic.
Physic powers are somwthing explain in lore. But the 40k galaxy is ment to follow real life natural laws (unless otherwise stated).
I understand that fanboys react violently to anyone pointing out the contradictions of rheir beloved myths... You can simply argue that you "believe because it absurd" or otherwise ignore my remarks, but dont try to enter into pseudological arguments that only reibforce the simple fact that under 1G abd nearby gravity conditions the oversize and overweight of SM design would be a liability in many instances.
2021/08/04 18:19:13
Subject: Why Don’t Marines Have Refractor Fields Built Into Their Armour?
The Galaxy and the Empire are diverse there are many savage, dead, feudal worlds... Many human worlds outside the Empire... Many places were oversized and overweight marines will be hampered.
The lore is marine centric it obviously isnt going to portray the poster boys unable tobdo their superhuman feats because of naive things such as a narrow stairway or some heavy rain turning soft ground into mud.
If you dont take bolter porn at face value and take a small step sideways you can see things under a different light.
Andrew the Giant didnt work as a SWAT and wasnt fix into a broad and solud 140cm armor.
2021/08/04 20:03:40
Subject: Why Don’t Marines Have Refractor Fields Built Into Their Armour?
Suspension of desbelief should have a limit... Or else we end in the "a wizard did it" department.
Im not putting forward a convoluted scenario... Space Marines are fail miserably as an infantry concept because they are so oversized and overweight that they cannot deploy effectively in a standard human world or instalation.
You can assume that Marines have some sort of (unexplained) antigrav equipment in their armour to compensate for the huge weight and ground pressure... But they are so high and so wide and so rigid that they will very limited on any dense terrain.
Pretending that the whole 40k galaxy is build to allow the SM to manouvre with ease is like stating "I believe because its absurd".
Perhaps thats true and thats the main issue why the IOM is full of rebellions... Citizens are feed up of living in a world design for SM oversized bodies were even going to the toilet is an adventure.
2021/08/04 20:34:33
Subject: Why Don’t Marines Have Refractor Fields Built Into Their Armour?
... But the breaking point for rebellion is not being able to go to the toilet with confort.
Thinks are not so complicated, yes 40K is full of over the top absurdities... But GW dont need to double down on the dumbest elements of the setting.
For example the Leman Russ turret is impractical and cartoony... There is no point in pretending that "in universe it works because its all fantasy and magic science"... Its a bad design decision. Next time they work on that model give it a more sensible turret like the SOB castigator. Easy.
Space Marines getting bigger and bigger in fluff and modelwise can be cool and apealing for some... But is reaching a point were is starting to get weird (just try to show that with my posts). No need to double down on the bigger is better trope.
Also the multiplication of weapon systems in general and in SM vehicules in particular is also reaching the point of stupidity... This of course is just MHO.
We you not just claiming that 40k was supposed to be "satire"?
Well from my POV the fact that a super strong, super durable, super fast, super tech, super inteligent, etc... Space Marine is unable to achieve its mission because it is unable to traverse a narrow staircase is the climax of satire.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I might seem a little intense on this topic (I like to debate obviously) and sometime ago I might think otherwise but the inflexion point for me was viewing side by side a big scale Mcfarlane model from an Intercessor and a Sister of Battle, the latter look awesome while the Marine looked comically out of scale and weird compared with the SOB.
Also, apart from 40K I play infinity... And that gives an alternative perspective towards the design of futuristic armor. And infinity is also filled with cheesy and absurd concepts like 40K..
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/08/04 21:03:39
