Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So a couple months back I found an old metal Callidus Assassin in a box of metal minis from when I was a kid (along with a variety of firstborn, Eldar etc) and decided to paint and play her mainly for some variety. Now she is almost an auto-include in my lists as she is magnificently efficient for her points. A 50% chance to make my opponent burn even more CP by itself is awesome. Sure she eventually dies but not before making a solid difference to the game.

I see the various tournament lists etc however and I don’t understand how she’s not a more popular choice? In a game where the alpha strike can determine the outcome, and where stratagems facilitate that a lot, the added expensive of doing so just seems somewhat OP.

In one example I was up against Space Marines and my opponent stuck a couple of stratagems onto his Eradicators to protect them from a load of fire I was throwing at them. 1cp for transhuman, 1cp for something that gave them +1 armour. Admittedly I rolled 2x4+ and that ended up costing him 4CP. In his first turn (cos he went second) he was then really cagey about using re-rolls as he knew he had a 50% chance of it costing 2CP instead. Start of my turn 2, I popped her up 6 inches away from his Captain and just butchered him as a result no no invul saves.

So what am I missing? Why is she not being taken loads more?

Competitive lists tend to only take stuff that's effective against good opponents, because you don't need to take stuff to beat less good opponents. A callidus is one of those things that is effective in inverse proportion to your opponent's skill level. Like I mean look at your example - why are you able to shoot your opponent's eradicators turn 1 in the first place, especially with him going second? Why is he leaving his captain unscreened? (And even then, you needed to roll really hot to kill him). These are not mistakes a good player would make.

It's not a terrible model, but it doesn't see much play in top-level lists because it isn't nearly as effective against top-level players.

Its kind of like one of those gate keeper pieces. Once you figure out how your army works around it you can side step an assassin. Doesn’t leave out the luck or the psych-out affect it has on spending CP’s like you say. Also the armies that use them best are Custodes and Imperial Guard which aren’t out yet, I think Sisters uses them well also but they don’t really have many gaps that need filling.

Runt Nosher wrote:
Its kind of like one of those gate keeper pieces. Once you figure out how your army works around it you can side step an assassin. Doesn’t leave out the luck or the psych-out affect it has on spending CP’s like you say. Also the armies that use them best are Custodes and Imperial Guard which aren’t out yet, I think Sisters uses them well also but they don’t really have many gaps that need filling.

I would agree with this, they're much better in the 8th edition Imperial faction codexes than the 9th edition ones. Don't get me wrong, their utility is still useful in those 9th edition codexes.

The problem being is that those newer codexes just have far more point efficient units, either in raw damage output, durability, or both for those 100 points.

I think the real issue with the Callidus is that beyond Reign of Confusion, you have model that doesn't actually do much for the cost. Players seem to find a better use for their points than a model that will die while doing little damage.

None of the assassins really do anything, compare to say 90 points Castellan Crowe (not even a top-tier competitive pick or anything) and it's just sorta silly how overcosted and underpowered they are. GW is clearly afraid (possibly with good reason...) of making stuff you can take in any Imperium army points efficient.

I think the Assassin's horrible points efficiency also comes down to how feels-bad they can be.

Assassins main purpose is to kill characters. People really like their characters and they get really annoyed when they're killed , especially when they're killed when they're supposed to be safe.

Of all the assassins I think the Culexus is by far the best. It provides utility that many armies can't access otherwise with it psychic defence and has great overall defence itself.

The other assassins are often just a waste of points because they don't provide much extra utility to most armies. It's often too easy to hide from a Vindicare, for example, and an Eversor is just a close combat blender that many armies can deal with fairly easily. The Callidus suffers from terrible offensive output, weak defensive abilities and having a pair of random disruption abilities that may or may not work. For top level players I think that randomness is a big factor in her unpopularity.

yukishiro1 wrote:
None of the assassins really do anything, compare to say 90 points Castellan Crowe (not even a top-tier competitive pick or anything) and it's just sorta silly how overcosted and underpowered they are. GW is clearly afraid (possibly with good reason...) of making stuff you can take in any Imperium army points efficient.

For what they are suppose to do for sure. IMO stuff like the real temple assasins shouldn't really be an option to take. Or if it was then for some super specific armies, like inqusition or custodes. And there they should be total beasts. Same way stuff phoenix lords, primarchs etc should work. They should be an option for specifically build army, which has its own limitations and buffs, and the regular army should have access to Grand Masters, High Avatars etc.

But maybe it is just a case of the name. If one stops to think that this is a calidus or everseror, and instead thinks of the model in therm of a regular imperial assasin, it gets more acceptable. Although that requires pretending that stuff are what they not are, and not everyone is willing or likes to do stuff like that.