Who does it best? Herohammer edition!

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**leerm02**

Greetings folks,

So, after the responses I got from the "Who does it best? Flame weapons edition!" thread I thought I would continue the discussion with another aspect of 40k. This time I wanted to focus on an aspect that is occasionally loved, occasionally hated: Herohammer!

Let's start out with a little bit of definition: to me, at least, "Herohammer" refers to armies/lists that work with a seemingly unreasonable amount of character type models. What is unreasonable is obviously a matter of personal opinion, but if someone shows up with a list that is 99% heroes (maybe there is a single troop unit in there or something,) we can all pretty much agree that's an instance of Herohammer.

So, with that in mind, what faction does Herohammer best?

Some potentials I can immediately see an argument for:

1) Space-Wolves: Why? Lots and lots of named heroes with special rules ect. Heroes in the elites section as well as HQ.

2) Grey Knights: Why? Psyker heroes. Need I say more? Okay, fine, Psyker heroes with decent utility and other stats!

3) Custodes: Why? Probably the single most powerful single models in the game (arguably) and lists that routinely feature a large number of heroes.

...But, obviously, there is a lot more to it than that. So please: discuss! What faction do YOU think does Herohammer best and why?

**Nevelon**

I think any list with a primarch in it should count.

**a_typical_hero**

Chaos Daemons did or do work alright with spamming Greater Daemons.

Space Marines of any color, really. Though melee focused Chapters are doing it better usually, as there are little to no proper shooting relics.

Orks got some real good beatsticks now as well.

**Unit1126PLL**

I would say Chaos Daemons (specifically my Slaanesh).

It's to the point where a 5 Keeper of Secret list is actually viable (3 base datasheet, 1 special character Lord of War (zarakynel), 1 special character HQ). You can give the 3 base datasheet ones "Exalted Keeper of Secrets" stratagems to make them absolutely monstrous.

Then, you have all the other Character models that are super good:
1) Contorted Epitome
2) Syll'esske
3) Basic herald (including the different "herald on chariot" variants) is a cheap and pretty good character.
4) The Masque
5) Others (Infernal Enrapturess, etc).

It's the most bloated HQ character selection in the game, and includes some of the scariest characters even including Lords of War. I'd throw a Keeper of Secrets at any other non-named character (and even a good number of the named characters) in the game and have fair confidence that she'd evaporate them before they touched her.

Here's a example keeper loadout for a character vs. character fight:

1) Normal Wargear, using the Ritual Knife for the offhand weapon (I'd use Sinistrous Hand in a regular game)
2) Murderdance Warlord Trait (though I'd take bewitching aura in a regular game)
3) Forbidden Gem relic (put this on the Contorted Epitome in a regular game)
4) Exalted Keeper of Secrets stratagem, choosing Lightning Flayer (would probably roll this in a regular game).

This Keeper of Secrets has killed the Nightbringer in a duel before without taking any damage in return (or even letting it swing) after the Nightbringer charged her.

**leerm02**

Wow! Demons certainly do seem like a good contender for Herohammer!

I'm looking at Battlscribe right now and not seeing a lot of non-hq options for herohammer lists though...

**Karol**

A DE succubi trades up, so much for her point cost, it is hard to compare her to other option from other factions. And that is post nerf, pre nerf she was an infinite attack kill everything monster.

**ERJAK**

Celestine is an excellent brawler against both hard and soft targets. Her biggest benefit, however, is that in games where she's relatively untouched turns 1-3 turns 4-5 she's more or less invincible. Most games that aren't totally one sided inevitably end up in a situation where if turns were unlimited, Celestine would be the last thing on the board, completely unwounded.

Morven Vahl is the best force multiplier in the game and is brutal in both shooting and melee.

Stern has a solid ranged mortal wound output, amazing defences and one of the scariest dueling profiles out for a pittance of 120pts.

Canonesses have multiple different builds that make them god tier fighters (OoML blade of sacrifice, Rapturous Blows+Blessed Blade, Word of the Emperor+Relic Blade) or shockingly near impossible to kill (Valrous heart+Impervious to Pain+Mantle of Ophelia+Emperor's Grace. Fun fact, this build beats Bel'Akor 1v1 with a handful of miracle dice behind it.).

The Dogmata is one of the most pushed buff characters in the game and the Repentia superior makes an already great unit, completely unbelievable. Imagifiers can give +1S AND run and charge auras (off the same model with the right relic) and don't get taken because of how good the other buff characters are.

**PenitentJake**

Tough call here.

I can't choose between Sisters and DE.

The reason these are my two top choices is because those dexes have the best Crusade tools for creating heroes with detailed stories.

Sisters have 3 different hero arcs: Failure and Redemption, Sainthood and Promotion. A single character could go through any of the arcs (failure and redemption IS designed for units more than characters, so it requires tweaking), or a combination of any two... Or even all 3 (though that would be putting a lot of story on a single model rather than spreading it out to the rest of the army).

Drukhari have two Arcs- the Ascendant Lord's territorial dominance, or the promotion to Mastery. Again, it is possible for the same character to do both.

I would prefer Crusade characters who had completed these arcs to any named character, just because every ability and perk that they come to possess would be earned through battle, rather than merely assigned at the list building stage.

If you want me to talk about hero hammer in the more conventional sense- ie named characters, I'd have to say Inquisition as my first pick. This is because the characters ARE the faction. Sure, there are retinue rules, but if you're playing Inquisition, you are playing hero hammer, because without the named characters, the rest of the army can't do anything.

Ynarri are a close second, for the same reason.

Coming in last place? Sisters of Silence of course: they only have one character, and you aren't allowed to put her in the table unless she brings along a Biig Stwong Man to help her.

**Eihnlazer**

Custodes are actually in a pretty bad spot for herohammer. They currently dont do squad for damage for their points.

The toughest guy in one on one combat is probably the sword and board shield cap.

Aquillon shield for the WL trait and Relic and +2 wounds for CC.

Gives you 8 wounds at T 5 with a 1+/3++, -1 to wound, and half damage. He only hits back with 5 str5 ap-3 Dd3 attacks though.

As far as offensively, the best is the Dread host Allarus captin with the Relic Axe and the WL trait. I'd give him the double damage on 6's CC trait or the +1 attack for every wound he's missing up to +3.

He's only 7 wounds at T5 with a 2+/4++, but can ignore ap1 and 2. He swings back with 5 axe swings and a dagger. Axe is str8 ap-3 flat 3 damage and the dagger is just str5 ap-2.

He can gain 3 addition attacks if he is missing wounds. All his 6's to hit do 2 hits and he has a strat for exploding attacks against chaos and +1 to wound against models with T6 or higher.

His maximum output is insane but you'd have to roll six 6's into six 6's for a total of 20 hits at damage 3 and 4 at damage 1.

**Marshal Loss**

Thousand Sons can do it pretty well, and they feel like a Herohammer army to me.

**Daedalus81**

Thousand Sons - if not by quantity then by quality.

The versatility of a Rehati or Dilletante Exalted on top of Ahriman, DPs, and Magnus? Good stuff.

**Arachnofiend**

Thousand Sons are such a herohammer army we have the equivalent of other faction's HQ's as our squad commanders. Everything is to support the sorcerers.

**ZergSmasher**

Dark Angels are one of the big herohammer armies, at least in competitive play. One of our biggest lists revolves around taking Deathwing Command Squads just to shield as many good heroes as we can fit in (usually 2 Talonmasters, Sammael, Azrael, and Ezekiel), allowing them to operate with near impunity.

**Void__Dragon**

Unit1126PLL wrote:

This Keeper of Secrets has killed the Nightbringer in a duel before without taking any damage in return (or even letting it swing) after the Nightbringer charged her.

Unless this was before the ninth edition Necron codex this is literally impossible. Unless it only had three wounds left?

But anyway yes Chaos Daemons are the best herohammer faction in the game bar none. Some factions might have heroes that are comparable or can trade up as effectively or more like Drukhari, but none can take a list that is pretty much nothing but heroes for objective play.

Spoiler:

This is a list that went third in a GT fairly recently. I can think of no other army that can run a list like this and get away with it other than I suppose knights, who aren't doing so hot right now.

**moreorless**

ZergSmasher wrote:
Dark Angels are one of the big herohammer armies, at least in competitive play. One of our biggest lists revolves around taking Deathwing Command Squads just to shield as many good heroes as we can fit in (usually 2 Talonmasters, Sammael, Azrael, and Ezekiel), allowing them to operate with near impunity.

Although I would say partly a very buff friendly army rather just just the characters being killing machines, the Deathwing command squads themselves can be what delivers a lot of the punishment or Azrael buffing a Hellblast squad.

**Unit1126PLL**

Void__Dragon wrote:
Unit1126PLL wrote:

This Keeper of Secrets has killed the Nightbringer in a duel before without taking any damage in return (or even letting it swing) after the Nightbringer charged her.

Unless this was before the ninth edition Necron codex this is literally impossible. Unless it only had three wounds left?

Current codex, full wounds. Procedure is:
Nightbringer charges.
Forbidden Gem activation at the top of the Fight Phase prevents nightbringer from swinging at all.
KoS swings, does the max 3.
My turn, psychic phase does 3 (two smites, I failed to get off Hysterical Frenzy)
My turn, fight phase, Quicksilver Swiftness let's me strike first and I do the final 3.

**JNAProductions**

You can’t smite twice with one unit.

Though had Hysterical Frenzy gone off, you would’ve done 3 wounds easy.

**Unit1126PLL**

JNAProductions wrote:
You can’t smite twice with one unit.

Though had Hysterical Frenzy gone off, you would’ve done 3 wounds easy.

You can smite twice with multiple units?

Did you think my army was just one Keeper by herself?

I guess technically then two units killed the Nightbringer, good point... lol. My mirror did one wound.

**Void__Dragon**

Unit1126PLL wrote:

Current codex, full wounds. Procedure is:
Nightbringer charges.
Forbidden Gem activation at the top of the Fight Phase prevents nightbringer from swinging at all.
KoS swings, does the max 3.
My turn, psychic phase does 3 (two smites, I failed to get off Hysterical Frenzy)
My turn, fight phase, Quicksilver Swiftness let's me strike first and I do the final 3.

Fair enough, I thought you meant in one round.