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Wazbom 2x tellyporta megablasta, kff Wazbom 2x tellyporta megablasta
(only units benefiting from freebooter trigger)
7 command points left over
Turn 1-
-2cp cloud of smoke- -1 to hit the entire army
-1cp blitza Dakka- reroll 1 on unit
-2cp charge! on 9x warbikers- +1str -1ap
Possibly
-2cp ramming speed- 3d6 charge vehicle & d3 mortals (on scrapjets/deffkoptas)
Turn 2-
-1cp crashing through on deffkoptas 5d3 mortal wounds on charge
-2 cp out da sun- back into reserve at end of turn for deffkoptas
-1cp- Blitza dakka again
Or
-1cp more gits over here- fallback and shoot
Secondaries are
“to the last”
3x squig buggies
9x warbikers
5x deffkoptas (these can start in reserves for turn 1 & end of turn 2)
“Deploy teleport homers”- speedmob allows move and advance counts as normal move
This message was edited 72 times. Last update was at 2021/12/13 16:03:25
Easily updated with new ork (nerfs)
The list is exactly the same minus nitro squigs on a squigbuggy and plus another warbiker.
Scrapjets and squigbuggies combined
All the nerf did was make kustom jobs useless…
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/09 19:37:26
I played a game yesterday based on the same way list (versus DG). I had no planes but a KannonWagon instead (not the FW, the codex one). (yeah, its meehhhhh).
What are your secondaries objectives with your list ?
I played Engage, Assassinate and To the last but found that using my 9 Warbikers to charge was a bit dangerous because of TTL and so the Evil Sunz Trait was not really optimized.
What did you think ?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/10 10:46:14
I mean without planes the freebooter trait is mostly useless and the only reason to take it is the aircraft.
The gunwagon gets a slight boost I guess. You can’t even take the kanonwagon as it doesn’t have a wagon keyword.
But ya none of the wagons are worth using especially any of the transports that have nothing to transport.
9 warbikers is mainly cause you get to move advance shoot and charge with a single unit of warbikers a turn (plus optimizing the chaaarge! Strat and blitza Dakka)… however you may not always get every unit in melee range due to terrain and placement issues. You can however break warbikers up into a 9/5/5 instead of using 9/9/3.
The hardest part of this list is probbaly just moving the scrapjets and kustom boosta blastas through terrain and other models. The warbiker bases are small enough to chain them but you will still run into rush hour type congestion in the lanes.
Regarding secondaries this list is extremely limited due to the fact it can’t activate. If you are lucky you can tailor your secondary to your opponent with assassinate, abhor the witch, bring it down, or Titan slayers (vs knights)
Things like engage and behind enemy lines are a little harder now that we can’t msu buggies but I still use these. I’m not a huge fan of TTL but with the new buggy unit rules.. you don’t have to worry about TTL on warbikers as your 3x squigbuggies and 3x scrapjets and 5-6x deffkoptas are all your most expensive Units… I mean you probably don’t want deffkoptas as your TTL it’s a suicide high damage glass hammer... So to be safe put your 6x deffkoptas in reserve turn 1, dropTurn2, shoot, and maybe ramming speed so you can crashing through for 7d3 mortal wounds averaging 8 mortals, followed by 54 atks. You can out da sun at the end of turn 2, drop in again turn 3 and try to keep them alive but deffkoptas aren’t exactly durable even in speedmob.
To be fair I haven’t used the above list as I don’t have 20+ warbikers right now and the campaign was only previewed ~3 days ago. I might play with a friend on TTS and see how it goes.
This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2021/11/12 14:52:14
I made a variation on your list with a bit more focus on objective control. Putting the ObSec warbikers in an evil sunz detachment together with an ObSec Warboss with Da Killa Klaw and Fasta than Yooz Trait in which he can buff a Warbiker unit per turn(Speedmob takes your Kultur, but not your clan keyword!). As an additional note.. The Warboss on Warbike is also an interesting target to hold a freebooterz bad skull banner, basically denying ObSec to others, while having it himself.
All the other units I’ve put in the Freebooterz detachment in order to be able to trigger Freebooterz competitive streak for the flyers in the list. This is also the reason why I am perhaps considering removing the specialist mob “Boomboys” from the Deffkopta, because specialist mobs do remove your clan keyword, which means their kills wouldn’t count for competitive streak. Other than that, I added the Warboss on Defkilla Wartrike as a Warlord to this detachment, giving him both the Speedking Trait and Badskull banner, both of which are Aura abilities now tied to a big base unit.
Warboss on Warbike [6 PL, 115pts, -2CP]: Da Killa Klaw, Fasta Than Yooz, Stratagem: Big Boss, Stratagem: Extra Gubbinz
+ Fast Attack +
Warbikers [12 PL, 235pts] . Boss Nob: Power Klaw
. 8x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 8x Choppa, 16x Dakkagun
Warbikers [12 PL, 235pts] . Boss Nob: Power Klaw
. 8x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 8x Choppa, 16x Dakkagun
Warbikers [12 PL, 135pts] . Boss Nob: Power Klaw
. 4x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 4x Choppa, 8x Dakkagun
++ Total: [103 PL, 7CP, 2,000pts] ++
Created with BattleScribe
Edit:
- Reformatted the 9, 7, 7 bikers into 9,9,5 for better strat optimization on the maxed out units, while making the 5man unit less killable.
- Took away Boomboyz from Deffkoptas to allow Deffkoptas to trigger Competitive Streak at the cost of 1AP.
Considerations:
1. - Dropping 1 Deffkopta and 3 PK, for an extra KBB, making the Deffkopta squad less killable, adding some punch to the KBB unit with an extra buggy at the cost of some anti heavy armour.
2. - Dropping a Dakkajet and a Deffkopta and possibly a PK. This opens up 170/180p allowing you to take a second KBB like with consideration 1 + another buggy. In case of dropping the PK as well, it allows you any 2 buggies to add to the list.
- In case of having 2-3 KBB, you could give them the pyromaniac special mob, to get at least 3 attacks on the exhausts at the cost of not being able to trigger Competitive Streak for the Flyer(s).
- In case of consideration 1. You could consider to give the Deffkoptas Boomboys specialist, 2 KBB Pyromaniac specialist and keep the other units in the freebooterz list to trigger Competitive Streak.
- In case of dropping the Dakkajet, the need to trigger Freebooterz cumulatively is less needed, which makes taking specialist mobs an easier choice.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2021/11/14 19:27:42
Zphyre wrote: I made a variation on your list with a bit more focus on objective control. Putting the ObSec warbikers in an evil sunz detachment together with an ObSec Warboss with Da Killa Klaw and Fasta than Yooz Trait in which he can buff a Warbiker unit per turn(Speedmob takes your Kultur, but not your clan keyword!). As an additional note.. The Warboss on Warbike is also an interesting target to hold a freebooterz bad skull banner, basically denying ObSec to others, while having it himself.
All the other units I’ve put in the Freebooterz detachment in order to be able to trigger Freebooterz competitive streak for the flyers in the list. This is also the reason why I am perhaps considering removing the specialist mob “Boomboys” from the Deffkopta, because specialist mobs do remove your clan keyword, which means their kills wouldn’t count for competitive streak. Other than that, I added the Warboss on Defkilla Wartrike as a Warlord to this detachment, giving him both the Speedking Trait and Badskull banner, both of which are Aura abilities now tied to a big base unit.
Warboss on Warbike [6 PL, 115pts, -2CP]: Da Killa Klaw, Fasta Than Yooz, Stratagem: Big Boss, Stratagem: Extra Gubbinz
+ Fast Attack +
Warbikers [12 PL, 235pts] . Boss Nob: Power Klaw
. 8x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 8x Choppa, 16x Dakkagun
Warbikers [12 PL, 185pts] . Boss Nob: Power Klaw
. 6x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 6x Choppa, 12x Dakkagun
Warbikers [12 PL, 185pts] . Boss Nob: Power Klaw
. 6x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 6x Choppa, 12x Dakkagun
++ Total: [103 PL, 7CP, 2,000pts] ++
Created with BattleScribe
Guys I like both your lists but I think a wasbom is mandatory for taking out dreadknights and such. Zephyr I can think of a few reasons but can you telll me why the 6 Koptas and not two squadrons of three ? It’s for while we stand ? The wasbom messes with while we stand…
Ere we go ere we go ere we go
Corona Givin’ Umies Da good ol Krulpin they deserve huh huh
Zphyre wrote: I made a variation on your list with a bit more focus on objective control. Putting the ObSec warbikers in an evil sunz detachment together with an ObSec Warboss with Da Killa Klaw and Fasta than Yooz Trait in which he can buff a Warbiker unit per turn(Speedmob takes your Kultur, but not your clan keyword!). As an additional note.. The Warboss on Warbike is also an interesting target to hold a freebooterz bad skull banner, basically denying ObSec to others, while having it himself.
All the other units I’ve put in the Freebooterz detachment in order to be able to trigger Freebooterz competitive streak for the flyers in the list. This is also the reason why I am perhaps considering removing the specialist mob “Boomboys” from the Deffkopta, because specialist mobs do remove your clan keyword, which means their kills wouldn’t count for competitive streak. Other than that, I added the Warboss on Defkilla Wartrike as a Warlord to this detachment, giving him both the Speedking Trait and Badskull banner, both of which are Aura abilities now tied to a big base unit.
Warboss on Warbike [6 PL, 115pts, -2CP]: Da Killa Klaw, Fasta Than Yooz, Stratagem: Big Boss, Stratagem: Extra Gubbinz
+ Fast Attack +
Warbikers [12 PL, 235pts] . Boss Nob: Power Klaw
. 8x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 8x Choppa, 16x Dakkagun
Warbikers [12 PL, 185pts] . Boss Nob: Power Klaw
. 6x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 6x Choppa, 12x Dakkagun
Warbikers [12 PL, 185pts] . Boss Nob: Power Klaw
. 6x Warbiker w/ Choppa: 6x Choppa, 12x Dakkagun
++ Total: [103 PL, 7CP, 2,000pts] ++
Created with BattleScribe
Guys I like both your lists but I think a wasbom is mandatory for taking out dreadknights and such. Zephyr I can think of a few reasons but can you telll me why the 6 Koptas and not two squadrons of three ? It’s for while we stand ? The wasbom messes with while we stand…
Well, my list does include the Wazbom. With the KFF now we have a possible army wide 5++. The Deffkoptas are a unit of 6 because of the new stratagem called Attack out da Sun, which allows you to take a unit of them back into reserves at the end of your turn. Currently, although probably not intended, you can even do so in the turn when they are going to see play. A second reason would be because of the Boomboys specialist mob. Only 1 unit can be Boomboys, so taking a unit of 6 maximizes output, although I’m thinking of taking it off, so that their killings count towards the Freebooterz competitive streak.
Blackie wrote: Wazbom's KFF works only for other planes, it's not an army wide 5++. It has no effect on units that aren't <AIRCRAFT>.
He meant speedmob 5++ for all speedfreaks and the aircraft 5++ covers the planes which are not speedfreaks
Automatically Appended Next Post: Regarding deffkoptas there are multiple reasons for them at 5-6. To the last you can put them in reserves turn 1, drop them shoot and charge, use crashing through strat to do 5-6 mortal wounds and then out da sun strat to put them in reserves even from combat… this means your oppponent has to wait til turn 3 to remove them. Allowing you to save 1 of your 3 to the last targets… and the drops allow them to do some damage during that process…
The bad news is you lose first turn ability to do damage. However given this and the fact unit size of 6 is a lot easier to kill. I’d recommend a unit of 5x deffkoptas as this keeps the least points in reserves.
Also he’s correct boomboys and crashing thru can only be used on 1 unit.
I don’t think you have to worry about triggering freebooter trait because of a single specialist mob as half your army is still freebooters. The deffkoptas are really one of your few main antitank units the rest of the list is a ton of low str high volume dakka.
I really like your list but I’d change the warbikers units to 9/9/5 instead of 9/7/7… making 3 units above 5 just makes all of them easier to kill. 9/9/5 also gives you 2 max size units for morale and optimizing strat usage. I’d also think about 5 instead of 6 deffkoptas you can go either way but you need to be extra careful with them as they are a big expensive glass cannon. Everything looks good but man the wazbom is so much points. You literally lost 2 buggies with this list varient and buggies are such a big durable threat. The wazbom is literally 90 pts more so 1 buggy there.. the deffkopta and 3x pk on the warbikers is 80pts for the second boostablasta which I’m not sure that’s better… KBB are underrated imho especially pyromaniac speedmob versions that can reroll 1-2 and use the mortal wound strat too if needed.
Remember when thinking of this list to think of secondaries… if you can’t use raider secondaries such as abhor the witch, assassinate, Titan slayer… you will likely need to use ones like engage or to the last..
to the last means you 3x biggest units are 3x squig (which are great hidden and durable), deffkoptas (decent if you reserve them and out da sun turn 2 but they are fragile), and 9x warbikers (these will likely get wiped out as your only max size unit)
Overall I like some of your changes and I’ve incorporated them in my original list. I dropped a scrapjet for wazbom (mostly because running 3x scrapjet units suck). I also changed my warlord to freebooter so I can take the banner which is likely better then redder paint trait from evil sun. So the main difference between our list is I kept my second KBB instead of the 6th deffkopta and 3x pks.
This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2021/11/14 12:39:28
Guys you do know out sa sun is just GW amateurism at rules writing, and is bound to be changed to « during your command phase » or something.
No way will Orks get to be the faction that can move a unit back to reserves after hitting, before getting hit back.
I would be curious to see how TOs get this, but if they green light the obviously wrongly worded strat, the we might as well go with it. But we get maybe two weeks before GW erratas it, no ?
Ere we go ere we go ere we go
Corona Givin’ Umies Da good ol Krulpin they deserve huh huh
I mean we can argue intent all we want fact is 2cp is a lot.. and double the cost of similar abilities.
Did they intend for it to work in combat?
Did they intend for speed mob and specialist detachments to stack?
Do they intend for deffkoptas to have double the mortal wounds from crashing through strat then any other unit?
Did they intend for speedmob to trigger freebooter kultur for aircraft/wagons?
Did they intend for speed mob to have a perma 5+ invul even when you don’t actually move (I move all my warbikers back 6in and advance forward auto 6 oh look I’m in my original spot again)?
Did they intend for kustom jobs they just put into the speed mob not to be usable if you want to field a 2k list because you need to place multiple buggies in units in order to have enough points?
Did they intend for speedmob/warbikers not to be able to take any actions and this limit secondaries?
Let’s not assume they didn’t want us to have a strat that lets you go into reserves the same turn you arrive for double the cost of the admech version. I’m not saying you are wrong but there is a lot of rules interactions they just don’t give a gak about. If Gw decides to faq out the above list then what’s the point to a speed mob? I might as well just keep playing freebooter speedwaagh until they nerf that again.
For now I’ll play my above list as written and I’m going to try it with (To the last/while we stand) with squig buggies, 5x deffkoptas in reserve, and a squad of warbikers as the most expensive targets and see how it works.
This message was edited 8 times. Last update was at 2021/11/14 01:28:36
9 is hard to hide, and if you go second they don't get a 5 up til your opponents turn two, but 9 is hard to kill and there's a fair chance that they end up chipped down enough that there's just a couple left that can run and hide all game.
Feels bad to have so many points doing nothing though, although better than not having any worthwhile secondaries.
On the Into the Sun strat, given the Admech one was changed to not working the turn a unit comes down I think we can expect the same change here.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/14 16:19:57
gungo wrote:He meant speedmob 5++ for all speedfreaks and the aircraft 5++ covers the planes which are not speedfreaks
Indeed, I did.
gungo wrote:
Regarding deffkoptas there are multiple reasons for them at 5-6. To the last you can put them in reserves turn 1, drop them shoot and charge, use crashing through strat to do 5-6 mortal wounds and then out da sun strat to put them in reserves even from combat… this means your oppponent has to wait til turn 3 to remove them. Allowing you to save 1 of your 3 to the last targets… and the drops allow them to do some damage during that process…
The bad news is you lose first turn ability to do damage. However given this and the fact unit size of 6 is a lot easier to kill. I’d recommend a unit of 5x deffkoptas as this keeps the least points in reserves.
Agreed. Opening up 50 points with this as well. This might bring the list to a more optimized state, although with the Out of Da Sun strat they are nearly untouchable already allowing you to go all out with Crashing Through for max glasscannon output. I will probably try both ways(5 and 6 unit size)
gungo wrote:
I don’t think you have to worry about triggering freebooter trait because of a single specialist mob as half your army is still freebooters. The deffkoptas are really one of your few main antitank units the rest of the list is a ton of low str high volume dakka.
I'm not sure about this one. The freebooter trait is cumulative. I personally value my Wazbom greatly. It has been MVP in many of my games actually, deleting anything I put my sights on. It is terrifying once you boost up its BS with the freebooterz kultur and it gives itself and the dakkajet a 5+ invul. They are rough targets to deal with and put up a big amount of pressure. They always can draw line of sight and get into the position you want it to be. It's incredibly reliable.
On top of that, Deffkoptas in these quantities, with such a huge output potential are very reliable to take out a target unit, therefore it might actually be 1 of the best units to trigger Competitive Streak with.
gungo wrote:
I really like your list but I’d change the warbikers units to 9/9/5 instead of 9/7/7… making 3 units above 5 just makes all of them easier to kill. 9/9/5 also gives you 2 max size units for morale and optimizing strat usage.
I agree, i will change this. It will optimize output. having 1 unit on 5, will make them less killable. The only counterarguement i can give is that the smaller units can fit gaps easier, but in all honesty a 7 man unit will have as much traffic issues as a 9 man unit I assume.
gungo wrote:
I’d also think about 5 instead of 6 deffkoptas you can go either way but you need to be extra careful with them as they are a big expensive glass cannon. Everything looks good but man the wazbom is so much points. You literally lost 2 buggies with this list varient and buggies are such a big durable threat. The wazbom is literally 90 pts more so 1 buggy there.. the deffkopta and 3x PK on the warbikers is 80pts for the second boostablasta which I’m not sure that’s better… KBB are underrated imho especially pyromaniac speedmob versions that can reroll 1-2 and use the mortal wound strat too if needed.
Yes, this goes back to the optimizing the list with 50 points leftover. There is indeed the option to drop 3 PK and add an extra buggy. I'm not sure it's the better option either. Having the PK makes the Warbikers that much more a threat against anything with heavy armour and you pull a Deffkopta, which is another source of anti heavy armour. The list as I wrote it, has a low amount of Scrapjets and the Wazbom + Deffkoptas to deal with Heavy Armour. I guess testing both setups out could see how valuable an extra buggy is compared to spreading some anti heavy armour around multiple units. With KBB i assume you actually meant a Boomdakka Snazzwaggon? Edit: I overlooked the option together with Pyromaniacs on the KBB my bad. Although I must say, Snazzwagons also look really hot in this army, with More Gitz Over Here, for a Fall Back + Shoot + extra hits on 6's.
shabadoit wrote:Warbikers are an interesting TTL....
9 is hard to hide, and if you go second they don't get a 5 up til your opponents turn two, but 9 is hard to kill and there's a fair chance that they end up chipped down enough that there's just a couple left that can run and hide all game.
Feels bad to have so many points doing nothing though, although better than not having any worthwhile secondaries.
On the Into the Sun strat, given the Admech one was changed to not working the turn a unit comes down I think we can expect the same change here.
Hard to hide sure. Having 2 of them spreads the choice for your opponent. They will be targetting a -1to hit unit, which is nice. and draws away firepower from your buggies and hardhitting flyers / Deffkoptas. This list is all about forward aggression though. While in a freebooterz list, you mostly want to dakka, here you want to move forward and get in combat as fast as possible, using your strats and benefitting from the 5+ invul. As for the Out of Da Sun strat.... it's 2CP, the Admech one is 1CP. There's no way we have to pay more for the same thing. But if so, they should also bring it down to 1CP.
Edit:
Blasphemous Hot take: Technically you could drop the Dakkajet and a Deffkopta and perhaps 1 PK. Open up 170P/180P, which is exactly enough for an extra KBB and a Snazzwagon/3rd Scrapjet/Dragsta/3rd KBB or in case of also dropping 1 PK, you can take any 2 buggies, except for Rukkatrukks, since we already maxed those out. This takes away some of the pressure of needing to get multiple Freebooterz triggers for the Dakkajet. The Wazbom needs a max of 2 triggers to max out on BS unless you deal with debuffs, which also means that putting Boomboyz and Pyromaniacs on the Deffkopta unit and KBB / Snazzwagon respectively is less of a risk. Although losing a Speedwaagh + Competitive Streak buffed Dakkajet... is a big punch to our... well. Dakka. It's an interesting flex though.
This message was edited 10 times. Last update was at 2021/11/14 18:32:31
Not into the hot take the aircraft are huge in this list. Also 3x scrapjets are a pain to maneuver.
Regarding the freebooter trait I didn’t mean it wasn’t important. I meant you can still trigger the freebooter trait with the squigbuggies and scrapjets… the rest of the list can still almost kill a unit and then have the freebooter units finish them off. And I really like ap-3 rokkits in this list that lacks anti tank.
Snazzwagons feel a bit all over on thier profile with a bunch of str5 shots that makes it feel like a weaker squigbuggy. also More gitz over here relies on your Snazzwagons getting into surviving and then falling back and shooting and getting a lucky 6? It’s such a niche buff..
I really like the 4d6 burna exhausts on the cheaper boosta buggy only getting 3 or higher rolls on d6 for pyromaniacs, plus the rivet gun is a decent str7 gun where if you don’t plan to use the reroll 1 to hit strat on your 108 dakkaguns shots from your 9x warbikers units or the 42 Dakkajet shots; you can always reroll 1+2 on the 22 KBB shots. Either way I upgraded the main list to your list minus the deffkopta and pks for another boostablasta buggy.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/14 21:01:30
I'm not a fan either, I value the Dakkajet a lot as well, but since the main focus is on buggies, koptas and bikes in this particular army of renown. It's a flex option.
I agree about the Snazzwagon options, I might play around with them here and there, but even now I feel they are the worst buggy option. It's nice for if you need to get away from stuff, but even than this list is about agression, not necessarily kiting.
I really like what you do with the KBB . I might try your list as it is, myself as well. Although I think personally I prefer keeping Deffkoptas off the Boomboys. The AP3 from Speedwaagh and the fact we throw a lot of mortal wounds around with this army of renown I think I prefer it that way. I updated my original post with some considerations I have, including the hot take option. They will probably be options I will flex around with and test. In fact I've even been considering Shockjump Dragsta's as a flex option, since with Adraline Junkie, you always want to Advance. Than you possibly Shock Tunnel teleport and count as having done a normal move, meaning you can still shoot your Rokkit launcha, but at 6+ and shoot your Shock Rifle, with 3+, because you won't suffer the -1 to hit for advancing. If you combo that with Blitza dakka you have Re-roll 1's and have 3+ to hit on a weapon that mortal wounds you on 1's and perhaps convert some 1's into 6's for the Rokkit Launcha.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/11/14 23:01:27
Shokk jump is a good vehicle but the new single unit rule really makes you want to stick with 1 since jumping 2-3 buggies is nearly impossible to place 9in away from enemies and have enough room w terrain and other models. But as a single model it’s good in this army of renown.
On deffkoptas you might want to place them into reserves turn 1 if you are using to the last secondary, and out da sun turn 2… which doesn’t really make them that helpful for triggering freebooter since you want that first turn surge…. Regardless your list looks good and it’s just about playing the list now and getting away from theory craft. I do expect to see some varients of this list in some tournaments soon hopefully next weekend.personally I’m short on warbikers. I have 12x and 3x old second edition gorkamorka ones. So I’m at minimum 3x boxes short to make this list.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/11/15 01:44:22
So I think an ever slight tweak to the above list might be needed.
I can dropped 2x warbikers to make the third warbiker unit x3 to upgrade the Dakkajet into a second wazbom this one without kff or shootas. I think in the current meta with Dreadknights and resurgence of knights and Tyranids the punch of the wazbom is more needed then the extra Dakka which this list has in spades but I’m not sure
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/11/18 17:50:40
It is worth looking into. I never considered a second Wazbom, but against GK and Nids it might shine. Depending on the Custodes update their dreadnought heavy lists might also be great to have a second Wazbom for. Against GSC i would rather have the dakkajet. It's valuable to have warbikers go hard in these lists though they are a source of ObSec and hit hard in SpeedMob.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/16 19:18:47
I mean unless gsc has a massive overpowered update, 1 new model isn’t going to bring them up from arguably the worst codex in 9th…
Ork speed waaagh really only needs to punch it’s weight at greynights, drukari (which this list is good against), Tyranids, admech, custodes (which could be monsters w thier codex update), blacktemplars, maybe deathguard and t-sons especially if they get some codex support soon. All of those are pretty heavy units except drukari.
But ya I’m unsure if the second wazbom is worth it the +1 to hit Dakkajet in speedwaaagh is insanely good for the price… the reroll 1 strat on it makes it even more reliable with those 42x str6 ap-2 dam 1 hits but then again I might use that reroll 1 (and 2) strat on a pair of KBB with the beefier rivet kannon it depends on the target.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/11/16 19:47:54
gungo wrote: So I think an ever slight tweak to the above list might be needed.
I can dropped 2x warbikers to make the third warbiker unit x3 to upgrade the Dakkajet into a second wazbom this one without kff or shootas. I think in the current meta with Dreadknights and resurgence of knights and Tyranids the punch of the wazbom is more needed then the extra Dakka which this list has in spades but I’m not sure
Yep, I think that wazboms and their AT will benefit the rest of your list. They will also help you a lot against T8 targets such as kill rigs in the "mirror" match, tyranid hierodules (in France we see some, dunno if they are played a lot in other countries), and other T8 suprises the meta has in store for us. Also if hive guard ignore ap1 and 2 dakka jets ain't doing much to them
Dakka jets are good but warbikers do more or less the same (since can go to ap2 which is a huge deal against GK and valorous heart sistas).
Looking forward to hearing how your test matches went
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/11/19 10:47:54
Ere we go ere we go ere we go
Corona Givin’ Umies Da good ol Krulpin they deserve huh huh
I actually had this matchup against a dreadknight list a few days ago. A friend wanted to practice for an upcoming tournament. I thought, this is the perfect moment to strike with the double Wazbom list. I decided to keep the Deffkoptas off Boomboyz and in this case it was a good choice, because they were 1 of the only reliable units that triggered Freebooterz. I deleted a regular dreadknight with them and triggered both wazboms. They deleted a dreadknight grandmaster. The Wazboms were under direct fire in their turn and i lost 1 of them immidiately but the other stayed around! I went in with the Warbikers in a speedwaagh and absolutely deleted a strikesquad. He went for 1 of my max biker units since they have ObSec en shunted forward with interceptors and a knight. In cc fully buffed up they annihilated the entire warbiker unit. Terrifying! Although they were so weakened because of the speedwaagh shooting. Every turn my Wazbom got a triggered freebooterz and together with some other shooting, succesfully deleted dreadknights. What’s so scary about the speedmob is the amount of firepower but also the speed a ferocity in CC . Every turn i had, my lead became bigger, while he kept getting less to fight back with. In the end i lost 1 Wazbom, Max unit of Bikers, KBB(which isn’t too awesome here). Lost both Scrapjets. He didn’t touch Rukkatrukks at all while they just kept deleting infantry. It was a hard hitting siege and having so much anti heavy really made the difference here. The thing is the warbikers and rukkatrukks already give so much dakka together with some of the other units. I think the Dakkajet still has value in the current Meta, but if i didn’t have a second Wazbom, i would’ve lost my only 1 in turn 1. Probably wouldve deleted less dreadknights and in fact wouldn’t have one left to shoot with. In this particular matchup it was strong having 2.
What did you change with your above list?
Did you stay with 6 deffkoptas or take 5 for a bit of protection vs blasts.
Where did you get the points for the second wazbom?
Were the PKs on warbikers helpful or would BC be better without the -1 to hit.
If the KBB wasn’t pulling its weight you can always switch it out for a shokkjump which is a good unit to support freebooter by jumping into spots to snipe out hidden units. The shokk jump is only 5pts more then KBB you can downgrade the pk on the unit of 5x warbikers to a BC and get 5 pts that way.
It’s good to here you are able to take out a competitive dread list still.
Hopefully someone took this army of renown list to the Austin Us open.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/11/19 15:18:43
gungo wrote: What did you change with your above list?
Did you stay with 6 deffkoptas or take 5 for a bit of protection vs blasts.
Where did you get the points for the second wazbom?
Were the PKs on warbikers helpful or would BC be better without the -1 to hit.
If the KBB wasn’t pulling its weight you can always switch it out for a shokkjump which is a good unit to support freebooter by jumping into spots to snipe out hidden units. The shokk jump is only 5pts more then KBB you can downgrade the pk on the unit of 5x warbikers to a BC and get 5 pts that way.
It’s good to here you are able to take out a competitive dread list still.
Hopefully someone took this army of renown list to the Austin Us open.
In this particular list I switched up my list to exactly yours, with the 2 KBB and dropping 2 bikers for the Wazbom(When you didn't have the Shokkjump). It toppled the list of my friend and in fact, it was his first loss with his dreadknight list.
Only thing I did different was that I dropped the specialist mob choices on all the units, so no Boomboyz and no Pyromaniacs. I sent the KBB's after dreadknights with the improved RAM ability together with the Scrapjets. In hindsight I think even without Pyromaniac it's better to just let the impact infantry squads. Those exhausts are often wasted to tanky buffed up units like dreadknights and they clap really hard in combat. I still believe in the KBB's I would just use them differently. It's just with the improved Ram ability you want to hit where it hurts. Their shooting also suggests dreadknights are a great target, because rivet guns are wounding them on 3's. Yet still with all the buffing, it just deals little to none and your exhausts are just much better to deal with chaff, especially if you would take pyromaniacs. The Warbikers were amazing around objectives with CHARGGEEE and together with the Deffkilla a complete domination of objectives. I focused them to deal with Strike squads and interceptors together with Rukkatrukk shooting, while the scrapjets, wazboms and KBB's went for dreadknights. I will still give the KBB's a shot, but i will also play around with Shokkjumps. Tomorrow I will run my own list with the PK's and a dakkajet instead of 2 Wazboms against the same list and see how it goes. Blitzadakka on Dakkajet might let me mow down those infantry units that much faster during a speedwaagh. Opening up full on fire on the dreadknights after with the dakkajet (will still wound on 4's). BC's on Nobz might be a great way to save up some points and with CHargeee you will have S8 which is a solid number even to deal with heavy armour. Although on PK's that juicy -4AP could be terrifying. I will try out the PK tommorrow, but perhaps in since Chargeee is a thing, we could perhaps afford to go for BC's. The PK is straight up better vs T8 though. and -2AP vs -4AP is a thing too. Although when you just dedicate the Warbikers towards infantry of T4, with CHARGEEE you now wound on 2's with the BC and 3's with the choppas. It's a great optimization vs infantry.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/11/19 18:43:45
Nice ya the only issue w shokk jumps is I like them in units of 1… whereas the KBB are nice with units of 2.. I been playing with the list lol trying to optimize it… lol
Buggies are great durability but there is a saturation point where to many buggies packs the lanes and not enough warbikers. And you need buggies to obstruct your opponents objectives especially a the freebooter banner. I changed the list by dropping 4 warbikers from one of the 9 warbikers units to add a shokkjump and 3x big choppas.. I don’t know if that is better but it sounds like from you game the max warbiker unit was a big win.
The reason I like the BC as well is that it doesn’t have the -1 to hit that pks get and with chaarge! it’s still a str8 ap-3 melee wpn…
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/11/19 22:15:56
gungo wrote: Nice ya the only issue w shokk jumps is I like them in units of 1… whereas the KBB are nice with units of 2.. I been playing with the list lol trying to optimize it… lol
Buggies are great durability but there is a saturation point where to many buggies packs the lanes and not enough warbikers. And you need buggies to obstruct your opponents objectives especially a the freebooter banner. I changed the list by dropping 4 warbikers from one of the 9 warbikers units to add a shokkjump and 3x big choppas.. I don’t know if that is better but it sounds like from you game the max warbiker unit was a big win.
The reason I like the BC as well is that it doesn’t have the -1 to hit that pks get and with chaarge! it’s still a str8 ap-3 melee wpn…
Yeah, i definitely see the potential. I think units of 2 -3 Shokkjumps can work, but you definitely need to work from creative flanks, which most likely put you there in the middle of the battlefield. Although with a 5+ invul though!
As for the BC, I think they go from ap-1 to ap-2 right? What you see in this list is that stratagems matter more unlike with Freebooterz where it's mostly just about turning up your RNG to 11. You play the game in a more pro-active strategical way and buff your biggest efficiencies most often on the offense. I've been meaning to upload a Blood Axes post as well, but that one definitely needs some finetuning and more explaining. The Speedmob list works in ways that units their intrinsic abilities and buffs on some of the buggies and warbikes in ways that you will only see in the Speedmob. They make you deal with the CP you have though and use your stratagems to turn already viable units into the stone that cracks the glass. I notice with the Blood Axes, there's different ways to generate more CP and start off with a big amount of CP as well. Their stratagems turn some otherwise questionable units into serious viable units and play with certain unit rules giving them an additional utility. Making them 1 of the more tactically and strategically advanced and therefore harder to play sub-factions I would say. Would it win against Speedmob? I'm not sure, I don't think it will, it's less optimized, but it has potential and a crazy amount of bodies. It's also not an army of renown and has potential to play big utility within a multi klan army. I wonder what people will think of it. I'll be posting it up sometime soon.
Ap -2 ya not -3… maybe a pk in the large unit of 9 warbikers is worth it..
I think for blood axe it should supplement an already strong list such as triple patrol w 3x 10 kommandos and 2-3x 10stormboys and 3x 10 trukk boys and 3x3 deffkoptas for a massive first turn charge and leaning into the heavier durability of kommandos… you can use the blood axe kommando strat that takes away first turn charge abilities and gives the you it -1 to hit. It’s a nice list and semperMortis plays it a lot but going bloodaxe on these melee units does lose some offense potential they had going goff or utility in deathskulls. I agree it’s missing a bit more synergy to really play as well as the speedwaagh and speed mob has.. I honestly think the speedmob is the strongest list we have at least until the chapter approved point hikes everything.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/11/20 01:29:26
I think this is about as good as it gets
2 wazboms
8 buggies I went 3x KBB to lean into the Strats that make this unit stronger.
I took boomboys on deffkoptas to make thier shooting better and since my warlord is freebooter for the banner they can’t use drive by Dakka.
I turned the wartrike into a warboss on bike since he gains obj secured w the banner..
There was really only 1 player who took this army of renown list to a major last weekend and it was extremely similar to what we had here.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/11/25 03:49:51
Tell me how your games go with the KBB's. I actually joined a local tournament here myself and came in 2nd place. I lost to a Dreadknight list ironically. I took the list with the 1 Dakkajet and 1 Wazbom, with the PK's on the bikers. I actually beat around 3 Freebooterz lists, the 5+ invuls are so good vs them!!! I feel like speedmob counters freebooterz. The moment you reach melee, you are just straight up superior as well. Yeah.... those Dreadknight lists, Once they add in the interceptors they are really jumpy. I feel like I held back a bit too much in the end. He basically pushed the middle with 3 dreadknights and power housed anything in his way like a big snowball, meanwhile on the flanks he created a lot of obstructions around choke points. I really noticed how strong armies can be vs us if they screen off multiple choke points towards objectives. I think I might adjust my lists towards a shokkjump dragsta in all honesty. I just noticed in my games how many times I felt I could've used one and flank the opponent hard. Anyways this army of renown is definitely on the board. Still working on the Blood Axe list for an infantry heavy list. It will be more casual, but I think it might have some potential when it comes to board control.
If I had 5 pts to spare I’d probbaly turn a kbb into a shokk jump… (or 2 even)
I can drop the single big choppa on tbe 9x warbiker squad but that squad is going to hit melee turn 1 so I think it’s more useful there.
I don’t think it’s worth dropping the kff on wazbom to upgrade the kbb into a third scrapjet and 2x shokk jumps… as those flyers do a lot of heavy lifting vs knoght lists.
I was trying to improve shooting since really greyknights, death guard, and most durable units seem to give this list problems.
2 hard hitting wazbom, 5 boomboys deffkoptas do most of the heavy lifting. I was hoping the rivet cannon could do some range work especially if you are running 3x you can use blitza Dakka and reroll 1+2 for all 3x kbb but that’s really only 3.333 extra rivet hits during a speedwaagh. Still 30 rivet shots is a lot even if only 13.333 hit…
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/25 15:45:14
