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I managed to do the twirly pattern for my ork flyer nose cone but it came with great difficulties. I used airbrush and vinyl PC printed sticky airbrush stencils I designed in Photoshop. Problem was is that some of the Vallejo Surface Primer peeled off when I peeled the vinyl stencils away and I had to fix that with the brush and it took ages. Anyone recommend a primer I can buy in Spain that is more adhesive than vallejo? Miniac says the same bad thing about Vallejo Surface Primer not being adhesive enough in his vid https://youtu.be/VRopLyN-YCw?t=356


btw I airbrushed two coats of Vallejo White Surface Primer (let each coat dry for 12 hours) and then after that two airbrushed coats of W&N Gala Matt Varnish so maybe you now know why I am quite dismayed, these were large chunks of primer that just peeled off with the stick back part of the vinyl airbrush stencil. I repaired the paint job with the brush btw and I have no before photo.

UPDATE: Some suggested reducing the adhesiveness of the vinyl stencil by putting in on and off a cutting matt several times before sticking it on the (varnished) paint job).

I was going to say Matt Varnish it after primer, but you already had 2 coats of primer and 2 coats of varnish.
Can't help you with pick of primers but because it pealed after 2 coats of varnish, that makes me think part surface, ether shiny or oily.

Acrylic will peal and flake off if layered over oil-based color, do check for that.
And very smooth and shiny surface will peal off unless somehow glue-sealed in layers after. (For extra shiny surface id ether score the surface like he did in the video for his color test, or quadruple seal it with glues and varnishes after)

And there is also the strength of a stencil adhesive, at some point anything will peal with enough strength. Have you tried running stencil's adhesive side over some cloth to decrease the stickiness?

Naw honestly it's just the nature of Vallejo Surface Primer. It's almost like a psuedo-plasti-dip in the way it coats the surface. Durable as heck for gameplay pieces, but it's a peeler.


What you can try is doing a light sanding with some super fine grit sandpaper on something like those cones where it's easy to, and that may help the Vallejo primer to adhere better. The primer will act as a moderate filler so as long as you're using something like 600 grit to gently work the surface, you shouldn't see the texture show through.

You can also look at Stynylrez primer, although I don't know it's availability where you're located. It's also (from what I hear) a trickier primer to work with, but I have no experience with it so that's just hearsay.

I found Vallejo's airbrush primer pretty bad to be honest. Some people love it, but if you like to use vinyl masks or masking tape it pulls up way too easily. You can improve the adhesion by washing the parts with soap and water beforehand (or alcohol and wipe it off with a paper towel works too), but I've had it rip off sections of models pretty badly even when it was cleaned before spraying.

From my experience, the good airbrush primers are ones that contain horrible chemicals you don't want to inhale, so unless you have really good fume extractor set up I'd stick to using rattle can primers. For rattle cans, I've used Vallejo's rattle cans, GW's and Tamiya's, they're all good but Tamiya's is better suited to cars and planes where you want a smoother primer finish.

If you do want to stick with airbrushing a primer rather than rattle cans, I've used Gunze surface primers and they're great, but they're a lacquer and so you need a lacquer thinner (I use Gunze's lacquer thinner). But the fumes are bad for you. I've also used some enamel primers which stick good but are only really appropriate for use under other enamels, so if you plan to spray acrylics over the top stick to either acrylic primers or lacquer primers.

Can you get the Army Painter rattle cans in Spain? They're pretty good. I've never had them peel off.

Also, automotive/hardware store primer is good - in the UK the standard Halfords automotive primer has a good reputation. Only comes in grey i think though.

I've ordered the Badger Stynylrez primer in White... you can get it from Poland EU to Spain.

Regarding reducing the vinyl adhesion I guess maybe sticking and unsticking it several times on a cutting mat will reduced the adhesion
so it doesn't pull the primer off; I am not keen on doing it on fabric (even denim jeans or micro fiber cloth) as it may pick up matreial fibers and deposit them on the model.

I'm being quick about it when I do the airbrush with stencils i.e. onto the model, immediately start airbrushing and then about 50 seconds after I finish then peeling off the acrylic stencil so that it doesn't cure. onto the model !

That's all I got. The ork flyer nose cones turned out okish as you can see above but only after I did a big repair job on them in the parts that
peeled away (happened on BOTH nose cones so the problem is CONSISTENT).

Wish me luck... also I did notice on sale that there is low tack vinyl sheets I think Cricut does them (SMART I think they brand it as)
and Silhoutte also do a version of this low adhesion (removeable vinyl).

Wishing you luck!
Let us know how it goes

I use Molotow permanent ink in my airbrush for primer and it never peels. For that matter it's really hard to get off my skin too... it's all around obnoxious so use it in a cheap airbrush you hate.

dfernand2 wrote:
I've ordered the Badger Stynylrez primer in White... you can get it from Poland EU to Spain.

Regarding reducing the vinyl adhesion I guess maybe sticking and unsticking it several times on a cutting mat will reduced the adhesion
so it doesn't pull the primer off; I am not keen on doing it on fabric (even denim jeans or micro fiber cloth) as it may pick up matreial fibers and deposit them on the model.

I'm being quick about it when I do the airbrush with stencils i.e. onto the model, immediately start airbrushing and then about 50 seconds after I finish then peeling off the acrylic stencil so that it doesn't cure. onto the model !

That's all I got. The ork flyer nose cones turned out okish as you can see above but only after I did a big repair job on them in the parts that
peeled away (happened on BOTH nose cones so the problem is CONSISTENT).

Wish me luck... also I did notice on sale that there is low tack vinyl sheets I think Cricut does them (SMART I think they brand it as)
and Silhoutte also do a version of this low adhesion (removeable vinyl).

Trying to reduce the tack of tape is pretty easy, but vinyl I've found a bit more challenging. Reduce the tack too much and it will lift on any curved surfaces, which is a pain in the arse itself if you don't notice it lifting, spray a coat, remove the mask and find that paint went under the mask.

For reducing tack, honestly I just use my face Stick the mask to your face, remove from face, a little bit of skin oils on the tape or vinyl will reduce the stick. I occasionally use my arms but my arms are too hairy, lol.

But good luck with it, let us know how you go. As I mentioned before, if you can deal with the fumes (i.e. have a good extractor) then I reckon Gunze lacquer primer range is great through an airbrush. Tamiya make a similar lacquer based primer which I have not personally used, but if it's anything like the Gunze one it should be good. Make sure you get a lacquer thinner to go along with it.

I find I get problems with paint bleeding under stencils even if it's stuck down firmly. Where am I going wrong? Paint too watered down? Too heavy coats?

Crispy78 wrote:
I find I get problems with paint bleeding under stencils even if it's stuck down firmly. Where am I going wrong? Paint too watered down? Too heavy coats?

Well I did some airbrushing recently using some masking tape (Tamiya 10mm) and it's just not sticky enough to completely stick and make a seal so it will bleed. Vinyl stencils will stick down sufficiently and not bleed (I even tried this on paper and if you look at my spiral cones etc
above those were stenciled with vinyl and no bleeding). However, as with the topic of this conversation the vinyl sticks down so well
it pulls the vallejo primer off !).

My plan is start with a vinyl stencil and reduce the stickiness by sticking it to my face (for skin oils) and unsticking it a few times or maybe a do it on a cutting mat instead.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Freya wrote:
I use Molotow permanent ink in my airbrush for primer and it never peels. For that matter it's really hard to get off my skin too... it's all around obnoxious so use it in a cheap airbrush you hate.

VERY INTERESTING .. i just so happen to live 18 minutes walk away from a Molotow shop here in Madrid, I've bought their famous Chrome paint and a few of their (excellent) big bottle thin acrylic paints but never considered their inks (which seem to be alcohol based with some variations) for priming Warhammer minis.

which of the permanent Moloto inks do you use to prime ? I bet they are toxic as hell going through the airbrush, one variety has alcohol and synthetic bitumen:

is it the 'Permanent Ink - Alcohol based' .. https://molotow.co.uk/collections/markers/products/permanent-paint-refill
or is it 'Coversall Cocktail' - https://molotow.co.uk/products/masterpiece-refill-coversall-cocktail-ink-n-a?_pos=14&_sid=2adaec739&_ss=r
or is it 'Speedflow Cocktail' https://molotow.co.uk/products/masterpiece-refill-speedflow-cocktail-ink-n-a?_pos=4&_sid=f1c2a362a&_ss=r

 DV8 wrote:
Naw honestly it's just the nature of Vallejo Surface Primer. It's almost like a psuedo-plasti-dip in the way it coats the surface. Durable as heck for gameplay pieces, but it's a peeler.


What you can try is doing a light sanding with some super fine grit sandpaper on something like those cones where it's easy to, and that may help the Vallejo primer to adhere better. The primer will act as a moderate filler so as long as you're using something like 600 grit to gently work the surface, you shouldn't see the texture show through.

You can also look at Stynylrez primer, although I don't know it's availability where you're located. It's also (from what I hear) a trickier primer to work with, but I have no experience with it so that's just hearsay.

Stynylrez dries quickly and it dries hard, but otherwise it's pretty straightforward to use. The white isn't amazingly opaque but the black and grey are great, and they all go on easily without thinning via airbrush. I much prefer Stynylrez over Vallejo these days and don't find it particularly harder to work with.

Crispy78 wrote:
I find I get problems with paint bleeding under stencils even if it's stuck down firmly. Where am I going wrong? Paint too watered down? Too heavy coats?

I find it often necessary with stencils to stick them on, varnish across the stencil, and then paint. The varnish seals the edges of the stencil and forms clean lines when the stencil is removed.

The varnish is an interesting idea, thanks. Do you find that gives you any problems when you come to remove the stencil though?

Crispy78 wrote:
The varnish is an interesting idea, thanks. Do you find that gives you any problems when you come to remove the stencil though?

Nope, just need to carefully peel the stencil up so that it doesn't take paint with it, but generally it's hassle-free and leaves a clean edge.

dfernand2 wrote:


VERY INTERESTING .. i just so happen to live 18 minutes walk away from a Molotow shop here in Madrid, I've bought their famous Chrome paint and a few of their (excellent) big bottle thin acrylic paints but never considered their inks (which seem to be alcohol based with some variations) for priming Warhammer minis.

which of the permanent Moloto inks do you use to prime ? I bet they are toxic as hell going through the airbrush, one variety has alcohol and synthetic bitumen:

is it the 'Permanent Ink - Alcohol based

I use their black high gloss.

https://shop.bombingscience.com/molotow-coversall-ink-signal-black-250ml.html?ff=3&fp=592&gclid=CjwKCAiAh_GNBhAHEiwAjOh3ZOl4w29nP8RTq6VCuoNB-5rUQqb12f8OZvFtdBudPFfXrobxH6ozbBoCbX8QAvD_BwE

This will literally stick to everything but it sounds like you already know their stuff. It's a perfect primer for me. I used it on my demonhunter model (pics on my page) and I held the rock part in my hands the whole time and none of it wore off at all. It's tougher than oils... which is nuts.

I would definitely reduce the tack of the vinyl masks. BUT .......

After applying the mask but before shooting the color, hit it with a Gloss ( I use Klear ) that will greatly assist sealing the edges of the mask to the model and help prevent "creep" of paint under the mask.

Note: This technique requires an Airbrush IMO

Crispy78 wrote:
I find I get problems with paint bleeding under stencils even if it's stuck down firmly. Where am I going wrong? Paint too watered down? Too heavy coats?

Immediately prior to spraying (like, paint in the airbrush and ready to go) run your finger nail along the edge of the stencil to make sure it's down properly, then build up multiple light coats so the model is never wet enough for paint to be pulled under the mask through capillary action.

You basically want to spray it so that it almost immediately dries after hitting the surface.

You can usually tell from the pattern of the bleed if it came from the stencil lifting (in which case it'll look a little hazy) or from forming too much of a paint puddle that got pulled under through capillary action.

One of my favourite paints for spraying over stencils is Tamiya, because it's an alcohol based paint with pretty good coverage, you can build up colours in a few quick passes and it doesn't bleed because it dries very fast after hitting the model.

Nice one, thank you