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2022/01/21 15:37:21
Subject: Beginner - How many points can my table fit?
With strategic reserves and no blast templates you can field as many points as you and your opponents feel comfortable fielding.
Last year (or the year before?) I built a gaming table for my apartment that is 48"x96" - essentially my gaming space is a piece of plywood cut in half (2x 48x48) and how big of a force you want to build is dependent on how good you are at storage and how many other games you want to share that space.
4x8 is the OG table size. 4x6 was too small imho. Kitchen tables are NOT gaming tables.
At one time, miniatures wargames were more like old time train sets than card games. The aim was more or less a permanent installation. With the Hasbro-ification of GW, focus has changed from serious luxury hobby to luxury priced branding and lifestyle nast. In the transition, much of the materials became more disposable, e.g. faction cards with rules that change every 18 months, models that are no longer useable due to no model no rules constraints and so on.
As a result, the entire experience is cheapened. Sure, just getting in, or unable to erect a proper table (4x8 imho or larger), then transforming the kitchen table into a Kill Team table or to play Talisman (game rocked) or even OG Man o'War for instance, is OK, but not optimal by any stretch. GW seems to want to establish a "new normal" to open markets to their luxury branding, without addressing the fact that expectations about what to get from the experience must change to suit. So, no longer is this a serious hobby like building a huge lifelike train display in a basement. Rather, the game has been crammed into a shoebox, for people who live in studio apartments with a family of 8. IMHO, a better ay would have been to market KT and Necromunda and Bloodbowl to those with space and time limits, and to leave 40K and WFB for people with the time and space to afford large installations, such as a proper sized gaming and hobby table.
Anyways, exalted for doing things right.
2022/01/24 00:03:20
Subject: Beginner - How many points can my table fit?
Fair size isn’t what was normal back then at least not for people who could afford it. Frankly having trouble believing that few seem to share this experience. Larger tables were always better. During university, friends introduced me to 40k and one was upset that the largest table that I had available was smaller than a 4x8. After uni, everyone I knew had a 4x8. My own table was more than that, about 51” x 106” so that we had room for books and beers at on end…
2022/01/24 20:04:42
Subject: Beginner - How many points can my table fit?
Dude, you are not right, and just to let you know that it is not just me with this memory, here is a copy paste from a random post that appeared with a quick search as I have no more time to waste on you no matter how great your avatar pic might be:
From: http://www.coolminiornot.com/forums/showthread.php?32597
Gilvan Blight's Avatar Join Date
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It started at 4foot by 8foot. Moved to 4x6 in the 90s and is now at 4x4.
I think this was done to make the game more accessible to more people.
My personal gaming table purchased at 4x8 due to the old size requirement.
(((NOTE; the above copied post was in response to a question in 2009 about what size table suits a 1500pt 40k game.)))
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/24 20:06:45
2022/01/25 22:38:27
Subject: Beginner - How many points can my table fit?
When I was playing 40k, 1500 pts comfortably played on a 4x4.
This was back in 3rd Edition, before 7 editions of constant points deflation.
It was never 4x8, and you're just full of it.
Show an official Games Workshop Grand Tournament from waaay back when GW actually hosted tournaments, and there won't be a single 4x8 board out there. They were always 4x6. I know, because I actually attended them 20+ years ago.
Stop making stuff up about things that were never true. Stop lying.
Ok dude. I made up the post taken from another board from 2009 and tho didn’t copy paste others from the same thread that agreed, right? Lying, huh?
I attended a GWGT in maybe 93… I do not recall the size of the tables, but the fact is the fact hwang. You are wrong. I mean, if you just did what I did and took two minutes to google the issue, you would have come up with something like I quickly did. Instead, now you are just mean and rude and insulting. Wish we were in the same room, but because we are not, I will instead have to flag your insult and ask a mod to ask you to stop being mean to fellow nauts… as for me, you are ignored. Good riddance.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/25 22:42:47
2022/01/26 09:15:54
Subject: Beginner - How many points can my table fit?
When I was playing 40k, 1500 pts comfortably played on a 4x4.
This was back in 3rd Edition, before 7 editions of constant points deflation.
It was never 4x8, and you're just full of it.
Show an official Games Workshop Grand Tournament from waaay back when GW actually hosted tournaments, and there won't be a single 4x8 board out there. They were always 4x6. I know, because I actually attended them 20+ years ago.
Stop making stuff up about things that were never true. Stop lying.
Ok dude. I made up the post taken from another board from 2009 and tho didn’t copy paste others from the same thread that agreed, right? Lying, huh?
I attended a GWGT in maybe 93… I do not recall the size of the tables, but the fact is the fact hwang. You are wrong. I mean, if you just did what I did and took two minutes to google the issue, you would have come up with something like I quickly did. Instead, now you are just mean and rude and insulting. Wish we were in the same room, but because we are not, I will instead have to flag your insult and ask a mod to ask you to stop being mean to fellow nauts… as for me, you are ignored. Good riddance.
Dude, just because you are obviously ignorant and wrong about what GW uses for 40k tournaments, me calling it out isn't an insult.
However, "wish we were in the same room" is an implied threat of violence, and I'm pretty sure that's a serious violation of the most basic rules of the site. You should be fething permabanned.
But yeah, good riddance to you, LOL
No, if we were in the same room implies that I would show you the search results, in person. Often, there are misunderstandings due to the medium of text on a forum where there is obviously someone's ego involved. Yeah, that is you. So, instead of standing down, or reconciling views, you decide to insult, and to demean your fellow discussant's character.
Besides that, the issue here is not about tournaments. My presumption is that the OP isn't having a tournament on his table. The OP is wondering about points on his table at home - that is my understanding and the context in which I replied to this thread.
If you want to make it about tournaments, then I already wrote that I don't know. If that is what interests you, then great, but that is not the subject of the thread, from what I could tell... I might be wrong about that, too, as I try not to read people's minds and I do make mistakes.
But, I do not lie. I am not a liar, and I have not been "lying". Even the post that I quoted above wasn't about tournaments. But I guess that is not worth checking, for you... what seems to be your interest is being right. OK, so then, let me say that you might be right. I have no idea about tournaments, though as I wrote, above, I did attend in GT sometime in the early 90s, might have been 93 or maybe it was 94... that is almost 30 years ago, so I am afraid that I do not recall the table sizes used there, though my suspicion is that you are correct about the 6x4. For me, I wasn't there for the tables.
Oh, and about your proposed "permaban" I will say this. I would miss this forum if this came to be the case. I have spent a good deal of time here, reading and using this community as a substitute for local friends with whom I might be able to discourse in person, in the same room as it were. I got a PM from Alpharious early on, here, and will always remember that instance fondly. Along the way, I have caused some trouble, and have grown to respect the moderators, here. because of this respect, I decided to start paying Dakka for the privilege of being able to participate, here. If the moderators decide that Dakka is better off without me, then I will respect their decision. It would hurt me, but OK, i get it. I am not going to run off and call them liars or incompetent or pretend that everyone else in the world is wrong except for me. I would have to find another forum to support, and to which to contribute. I have tried other forums, but I have enjoyed this one best, and a big part of that is that Dakka lets people have different points of view, engage in often enough relatively heated exchanges, and doesn't shut down and "permaban" people who might seem annoying. I personally enjoy the discourse and the exchange of ideas. As Jurgen Habermas had argued, people do not change their minds during conversations, they change them in between. If we are not able to post current opinions, then Habermas' process is short-circuited, and the potential for discourse to inform and to enrich lives is lost. I have come to believe that Dakka represents this spirit of discourse, because I have experienced such an attitude from my engagement with moderators here. Again, if they feel that I am a burden, and decide that this community is better off without me, then I will accept that decision, and move on, but of course, I hope that the is not the case, as then I would have failed in being a good member of the community that I have grown to respect and to enjoy.
As for you, well, you are not the reason why I spend my time here. I do not particularly enjoy your posts, and after this affair concludes, will happily ignore your existence.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/26 09:32:11
2022/01/27 09:22:54
Subject: Beginner - How many points can my table fit?
koiyama wrote: Thanks for all the responses. As a side info, I just bought the command and recruit edition in order to start building from there. I'll set my first target to 1k points for my table size then.
Is there a rule of thumb on how much terrain I should go fore? I obviously only have the terrain that came in the command box.
What is a smurf in this context?
Spoiler:
There have been a few articles, one of the ones I like is the one where someone used CAD to look at Hammerfall bunker placement on tournament tables.
https://www.goonhammer.com/hammer-of-math-deploying-fortifications-in-40k-9th-edition/ was the article. It'll both have some pictures to show you and some drawings if you're really curious about the effect that has on Deployment. Some of it you'll have to estimate. For example a Super Heavy Tank is bigger than the Bunker, but doesn't have the 3" border rule. That's probably something of a wash and those green squares are the only places you could place a Super Heavy Tank if you followed their example (and its an example not a rule) Most people in pickup or friendly games will work with you to setup terrain that works for your deployment as well as their own. Otherwise, what's the point? If you can't place your army, you're not going to play.
Another route to go - I recently decided to give up on trying to get to a local store for play, and made a plan to make my own table. Long term making my own with plywood and foam core appeals to me but short term I bought two of https://www.goonhammer.com/product-review-kill-team-arena-and-killzone-sector-fronteris/ - had one of my armies been Orks, I would have gone with one and the new Kill Team Starter set to get half Imperial half Ork buildings and a 2,000 point per side table. Kill Zone Pariah will get you some necron models to go with your starter set, and some necron terrain.
Spoiler:
Sadly Kill Team is going through some edition upheaval itself so current GW website availability is more limited than Amazon or Ebay. But if you search them for Kill Team Terrain keywords you should get a lot of options. Most of them will be some sort of starter set, a few will be a game board + terrain sets. Here's a Review - https://www.goonhammer.com/product-review-kill-team-arena-and-killzone-sector-fronteris/ of several options. As you can see they're categorized by their Killzone: <keyword> just like armies have a replaceable keyword. If I remember right your starter set with terrain - the command edition? - is also one of these kill-zones with some terrain. You could find the matching Killzone: Keyword expansion have your 4x6 2,000pt a side table. I picked two Fronteris because I like it narratively. Its a human settlement for the Imperium and Chaos/Xenos to fight over. It even works to have Chaos fighting Xenos on an abandoned human world, while you'd be unlikely to see Ork buildings unless Orks are involved. On the other hand the Ork buildings in the soon-to-be-or-newly-released Kill Team Starter Set for the new edition are really really good from what I hear and can even be stacked to make different/new terrain.
So you've got options. From what I understand your Commander Box should be basically a Killzone box with 1000 points worth of board and terrain - kill team, patrol and incursion are all (suggested) 44x30 it appears you go to 44x60 (Two boards) for Strike (2000 points) Oh wait, the Command Edition looks to have a shrunk down board not a full 44 by 30.
So yeah, either buy/make terrain separately, and build a solid board to start with, or do what I do, buy a one/two Kill Team (Or Killzone) sets - based on the table size you want - that you think meld well together. They don't have to be the same set or even the same kill zone. Fronteris terrain wouldn't be totally out of place with (here's a list of some/most as a review for a merged rulebook I wouldn't get as there's no guarantee it'd even be current or cross over to 40K: https://www.goonhammer.com/kill-team-killzones-review/)
Yet another even more costly short term solution with long term benefits might be getting a 3D Printer. You can print your own resin terrain from free/cheap "blueprints" called STL files on the internet. At that point you can also 3D Print options and customizations for your models.
Spoiler:
But that's REALLY not cheap. The estimate I heard was about a $1,000 to drop as a starter cost. But once you do that printing itself is cheap. (as a side note look into magnetizing and 3D Printing before you get heavily into vehicles with weapon options. Most of the vehicle kits are one box for 2-3 vehicles Predator Anhilator/Destructor is the same kit, the Gladiator Tanks and -Strike Speeders are the same kit, so if you magnetize the weapons, you can buy one kit and swap the specific bits instead of buying 3 kits for each. i.e. buy 3 Gladiator Kits and magnetize/3D Print turret clamshells to just swap turrets/sponsons or buy 9 Kits to make 3 Gladiator Reapers, 3 Gladiator Lancers and 3 Gladiator Valiants.
Lastly I think you're playing with family and one of you is space marines, one of you is necrons. I'd look at getting Pariah as that'll get you both another squad and character and some necron themed terrain which is otherwise hard to find. Not all of it will transfer over but the necron player would probably enjoy at least a little of their architecture in their deployment zone.
Spoiler:
After that get one of the Imperium kits that works for both of your and kind of split the terrain imperium to the SM side, Necron to the Necron Side. Of course, this is a fairly pricey spending added to what you JUST bought so I get that too. Worst case you can look at the photos in the reviews to get an idea.
And yes, Smurf is for Ultramarines. Ultramarines used to be the worst of the four major named chapters (UM, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves) then some GW employee (I didn't care enough about the politics to pay attention but I think people said it was Matt Ward) fell in love with them. And it showed. They were the poster boy everywhere. Even UM players were sick of Ultramarines all the time all the places. Marneus Calgar is often referred to as Papa Smurf.
