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So, we just got hit with a new dataslate and a new round of FAQs.

Major changes:

- Big nerf to the dark kin. Talos and Cronos lose CORE and artist of flash no longer works on vehicles.
- Minor nerf to sisters. You can use only one armorium cherub per turn.
- Nerf to orkz. Truckboyz can't charge after disembark. Also, 2 killsaws only provide 1 additional attack.
- Nerf to Grey Knight. Like above, 2 falchions only provide one additional attack.
- Nerf to drop pods. Units disembarking from drop pods (and bug pods) count as arriving from reserves.

This is mostly it.

scuse me, but why nerf boys even more?

Probably unintended.

They just said that if you charge from a transport that has moved and that has the rule to disembark after movement, you can't charge.

Welp, looks like Talos are dead.

Looks like a double nerf to drop pods.

In addition to counting as coming from reserves, since the drop pod arrived from reserves and counts as having moved, models disembarking from a drop pod wont be able to charge. Unless I'm missing something.

Mariongodspeed wrote:
Looks like a double nerf to drop pods.

In addition to counting as coming from reserves, since the drop pod arrived from reserves and counts as having moved, models disembarking from a drop pod wont be able to charge. Unless I'm missing something.

That rule only applies to transports which have rules to allow them to count as Remained Stationary. Apparently. I dunno.

Rihgu wrote:

Mariongodspeed wrote:
Looks like a double nerf to drop pods.

In addition to counting as coming from reserves, since the drop pod arrived from reserves and counts as having moved, models disembarking from a drop pod wont be able to charge. Unless I'm missing something.

That rule only applies to transports which have rules to allow them to count as Remained Stationary. Apparently. I dunno.

I think that they may have to FAQ the FAQ.

I think people aren't taking the change about "can't disembark and charge" in context, assuming it is the blue bit on page 8 - that's specifically an errata to the Rare Rules content around Rules that count as remaining stationary, not the general TRANSPORT rules.

Can't comment on Trukks, as I don't have the Ork 'dex, but I don't see anything on the standard Drop Pod referring to "counts as stationary".

Marines disembarking from a Drop Pod now counting as coming from Reserve is somewhat significant. Things like Auspex Scan and Forewarning are much more impactful.

Dakka don't care about PL, but it's about the only thing I could really discuss.

The PL update will affect my Crusades going forward. Don't know what their problem with the Manticore is, but at least Vets and Commissars get a PL drop to compensate.

 Sarigar wrote:
Marines disembarking from a Drop Pod now counting as coming from Reserve is somewhat significant. Things like Auspex Scan and Forewarning are much more impactful.

You've been able to shoot marines coming out of a pod for a while now.

I mean sure, thicc city needed to go. But this feels so thin it was scarcely worth releasing.

Tyel wrote:
I mean sure, thicc city needed to go. But this feels so thin it was scarcely worth releasing.

Yeah. Just like the "balance updates" in CA. They apparently think everything is "A-OK" I guess. Or they just aren't trying very hard.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Tyel wrote:
I mean sure, thicc city needed to go. But this feels so thin it was scarcely worth releasing.

Yeah. Just like the "balance updates" in CA. They apparently think everything is "A-OK" I guess. Or they just aren't trying very hard.

Let's be a little more reasonable here.

We just got CA and new missions. We just had subfactions cut out. Custodes and GSC are barely out in the wind.

Making another set of sweeping changes is unnecessary and potentially foolish. This hits Thicc City - the worst list in the game. Are there any other specific lists that are particularly egregious right now? I don't think so.

Let people process the changes and new codexes and we'll get another dataslate in 3 months.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Let's be a little more reasonable here.

We just got CA and new missions. We just had subfactions cut out. Custodes and GSC are barely out in the wind.

Making another set of sweeping changes is unnecessary and potentially foolish. This hits Thicc City - the worst list in the game. Are there any other specific lists that are particularly egregious right now? I don't think so.

Let people process the changes and new codexes and we'll get another dataslate in 3 months.

I guess its always looking for more change.
I mean nuke Thicc City. As said 100% agreement there.
But I'm not sure everything is great in the meta. Some factions clearly continue to need help. And sure, things will be in flux for the next 3 months - Custodes, GSC, Tau, Eldar presumably on the horizon etc. But I'm not sure that's going to help those factions that seem to be sinking.

Basically I think they should have kept their powder dry for a month or so.

The whole thing is a mistake. I mean, they can't even release an update without needing a day 1 update.

I think the reason this felt so thin is that "nuking the problem armies in tournaments" doesn't really fix casual play.

Imperial Guard are unfun in Casual Play. The power level costs and points costs nerfed their best unit, and buffed units that still won't be taken.

With rumors of a second 9th edition SM codex on the way, I think there's a lot of disgruntlement with the way the "bad" armies are just destined to stay bad.


There's a feeling that "more could be done" - and I, for my part, agree. More could be done, though this isn't an awful release by any means. It's free and electronic, which is way better than the Chapter Approved by miles.

I think the biggest question is how much of a gatekeeper Tau is going to be.

CSM and Nids seem like they're going to be lined right up pretty quickly so I'm guessing an AoS summer. With Harlies and Ynnari in the CW book we have Knights, Daemons, and Guard left. And with respect to two of those they did get updates in the previous dataslate. Guard need just a whole bunch of rules to get on par, which sadly means there isn't much that can be done until they get a book. Slashing points just creates an awkward situation and unintended interactions especially when they'll need to get pushed back up with the codex.

Why can't there be much done?

They got three rule rewrites or additions in the last balance dataslate. Why not three more?

The whole point of the balance dataslate was to change rules rather than points in the pursuit of balance.

And I am not just talking about 8th edition books. There are bad 9th edition books, too, like the IF supplement, Necrons, Death Guard (who got points *increases* in CA for some reason)

Isn't the IF Supplement also an 8th (or 8.5, at best) book?

This is two bad balance passes in a row.

Forget partnering with ITC, give the entire balance section to them. GW clearly can't handle it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Why can't there be much done?

They got three rule rewrites or additions in the last balance dataslate. Why not three more?

The whole point of the balance dataslate was to change rules rather than points in the pursuit of balance.

And I am not just talking about 8th edition books. There are bad 9th edition books, too, like the IF supplement, Necrons, Death Guard (who got points *increases* in CA for some reason)

The Sisters book is now retroactively bad considering the massive compounding nerfs we've gotten.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Tyel wrote:
I mean sure, thicc city needed to go. But this feels so thin it was scarcely worth releasing.

Yeah. Just like the "balance updates" in CA. They apparently think everything is "A-OK" I guess. Or they just aren't trying very hard.

Let's be a little more reasonable here.

We just got CA and new missions. We just had subfactions cut out. Custodes and GSC are barely out in the wind.

Making another set of sweeping changes is unnecessary and potentially foolish. This hits Thicc City - the worst list in the game. Are there any other specific lists that are particularly egregious right now? I don't think so.

Let people process the changes and new codexes and we'll get another dataslate in 3 months.

It would be unnecessary and foolish if they didn't make massive mistakes with CA2022. Because of how incompetent that book was they now have massive issues they didn't previously have that need to be sorted out.

So because they made more problems and didn't fix any old problems we're in a net worse place than we were before CA2022 and before this balance slate.

 Dysartes wrote:
Isn't the IF Supplement also an 8th (or 8.5, at best) book?

All 6 original SM supplements are 8th edition, and now need heavy revision if only to bring them up to the level of the new 9th edition SM supplements as they have lots of issues working with 9th edition Codex. Book creep just left them behind.

Then there is supplement Deathwatch that requires burning, pretending it never existed, firing of incompetent who wrote it, and redoing it from the scratch based on 8th edition Codex: DW because it's beyond saving on every possible level

 Irbis wrote:
Then there is supplement Deathwatch that requires burning, pretending it never existed, firing of incompetent who wrote it, and redoing it from the scratch based on 8th edition Codex: DW because it's beyond saving on every possible level

I dunno, for a little while there were some podium finishes in big tournaments by Deathwatch lists, even with Drukhari and AdMech stupidity going around. So I don't think they are as bad as you're saying. I'm not saying they're real good either, just not total garbage.

Something can be competitively good but total gak to play. Lookin at the orks codex, for like the two minutes it had in the sun before being slammed fifty times.

Yeah, balance within 9th edition books is falling apart too.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
We just got CA and new missions. We just had subfactions cut out. Custodes and GSC are barely out in the wind.

Making another set of sweeping changes is unnecessary and potentially foolish. This hits Thicc City - the worst list in the game. Are there any other specific lists that are particularly egregious right now? I don't think so.

Let people process the changes and new codexes and we'll get another dataslate in 3 months.

For fun, pretend you are sitting in a GW rules writers meeting as they are preparing Chapter Approved and mid tier designer Daedalus just finished saying something similar to the above to the room. Then sitting beside you the lead game designer stops chewing on his crayons for a moment and adds "but lets make sure we take a huge dump on Death Guard right now for no reason whatsoever".

Death Guard are my fourth choice faction in terms of power and fifth choice faction in terms of coolness, I'm not salty about them being bad, I just keep track of their rules and I can't comprehend why they keep beating on them.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Why can't there be much done?

They got three rule rewrites or additions in the last balance dataslate. Why not three more?

The whole point of the balance dataslate was to change rules rather than points in the pursuit of balance.

And I am not just talking about 8th edition books. There are bad 9th edition books, too, like the IF supplement, Necrons, Death Guard (who got points *increases* in CA for some reason)

I don't know that there's much you could apply universally without starting to write a new codex.

The points are definitely behind the curve, but until GW commits to making them free I don't see those changes popping up in the dataslate. DG terminators are definitely hard to remove. Do they deserve the nerf? Not really.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Why can't there be much done?

They got three rule rewrites or additions in the last balance dataslate. Why not three more?

The whole point of the balance dataslate was to change rules rather than points in the pursuit of balance.

And I am not just talking about 8th edition books. There are bad 9th edition books, too, like the IF supplement, Necrons, Death Guard (who got points *increases* in CA for some reason)

I don't know that there's much you could apply universally without starting to write a new codex.

The points are definitely behind the curve, but until GW commits to making them free I don't see those changes popping up in the dataslate. DG terminators are definitely hard to remove. Do they deserve the nerf? Not really.

Points changes should stay in the CA, they just shouldn't be part of the CA book. That way they aren't 8 months outdated gutpunches to armies that weren't doing so hot anyway. Put a digital reciept in the book to unlock them in the app or something.

I think the primary purpose of the dataslates should be rewriting unit Datasheets. Some units can't be fixed with points. If a Castigator was 80pts, it would still be a bad unit, you'd just take them because it has a rhino's defensive stats with a gun on it.

Outside of that, nerf the top army, buff some baseline rules for the bottom handful of armies and call it a day. That's what the dataslates should be for. Not creating a shroedinger's cat situation with Truck Boyz who both can and can't charge out of their truckz.

I am intrigued by the endless nerfing that GW is applying to Death Guard these days. This interesting news taken from Goonhammer.

For Death Guard it’s worth noting that Inexorable Advance will no longer let you count as remaining stationary after you disembark from a transport, so if your plague marines disembark from a Rhino or drill, they need to be within 12” to shoot their Rapid Fire bolters twice, as they won’t count as remaining stationary. Note that this is true even if the transport didn’t move.

Some studio designer got hit really hard by a local Death Guard player, and now they are mad at Mortarion's boys.

Love my plague boys, but I get very little joy in putting them on the table these days.

The changes to Imperial Guard are a step in the right direction....

... but they are essentially children's bandages on a .50cal bullet wound that is the army right now.