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I have noticed there is very little(if any) mention or lore about wet navies in 40k which is a shame because it would be fun(or so I believe) to have a battle on or under the high seas, imagen fighting the Nids on or under the high seas, basically it would be the 40k version of the classic shark movie Jaws.

They do exist. Naval actions were (and are) a major part of the Armageddon campaigns for instance.

Is there much need for naval combat on oceans when aerial and orbital combat has unlimited scope with the 40K level of technology

Sterling191 wrote:
They do exist. Naval actions were (and are) a major part of the Armageddon campaigns for instance.

I did not know that, thanks for the tip off but still I have not seen any rules/units dedicated to wet naval warfare, but on the up side it gives players a lot of lee way to home brew such rules and units.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mrFickle wrote:
Is there much need for naval combat on oceans when aerial and orbital combat has unlimited scope with the 40K level of technology

In the right circumstances I would have to say yes if the *Battlefield* was mostly or all water and there were underwater human settlement such as underwater mining and the like the enemy could not be simply bombed from orbit to prevent damage or lost of critical resources/personal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kargan3033 wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:
They do exist. Naval actions were (and are) a major part of the Armageddon campaigns for instance.

I did not know that, thanks for the tip off but still I have not seen any rules/units dedicated to wet naval warfare, but on the up side it gives players a lot of lee way to home brew such rules and units.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mrFickle wrote:
Is there much need for naval combat on oceans when aerial and orbital combat has unlimited scope with the 40K level of technology

In the right circumstances I would have to say yes if the *Battlefield* was mostly or all water and there were underwater human settlement such as underwater mining and the like and the enemy could not be simply bombed from orbit to prevent damage or lost of critical resources/personal.

A submarine is used at the beginning of a novella to drop Imperial forces on an island controlled by Chaos. Also, a Chaos warband known as the Steel Cobras lives deep in the ammonia oceans of Tukaroe VII, and a campaign against them would require underwater vehicles.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
A submarine is used at the beginning of a novella to drop Imperial forces on an island controlled by Chaos. Also, a Chaos warband known as the Steel Cobras lives deep in the ammonia oceans of Tukaroe VII, and a campaign against them would require underwater vehicles.

Really what was that from, I'd like to read about it.

They would exist, but given that planetary combat is usually going to involve one or both sides also possessing space vessels water obstacles can be bypassed with ease.

Obviously this would change on planets with large quantities of surface water, but they would probably be taken care of with more specialized forces. I would bet that there are whole Imperial Guard regiments dedicated to wet naval combat. Regiments who travel the stars, their ships taken along in massive orbital landers that can deposit and recover them.

Imagine a whole fleet of WW2-esk vessels getting dropped onto a planet by some specialized landers. That is very 40k. Rare regiments with specialized equipment for those water worlds the Imperium needs to conquer.

 Grey Templar wrote:
They would exist, but given that planetary combat is usually going to involve one or both sides also possessing space vessels water obstacles can be bypassed with ease.

Obviously this would change on planets with large quantities of surface water, but they would probably be taken care of with more specialized forces. I would bet that there are whole Imperial Guard regiments dedicated to wet naval combat. Regiments who travel the stars, their ships taken along in massive orbital landers that can deposit and recover them.

Imagine a whole fleet of WW2-esk vessels getting dropped onto a planet by some specialized landers. That is very 40k. Rare regiments with specialized equipment for those water worlds the Imperium needs to conquer.

Now that's a good mental image, an aircraft carrier getting dropped into a sea from a massive landing craft, also I feel GW could have done a whole wet navy if they were smart enough to work them into the game.

Fire Caste is set on a water world and has one of the main imperial commanders running things out of an aquatic battleship. Plus, chimeras are amphibious.

One of the newer Farsight books has a scene set on another water world where an ork navy tries to attack an aquatic fortress.

So water warfare does seem to be a thing. It just doesn't lend itself super well to the tabletop because most tabletops aren't especially watery. And if they were, you'd have to worry about said terrain being incompatible with your footslogging infantry.

My headcanon is that most aquatic assets belong to local defenses like the PDF on worlds with large enough oceans to warrant such vehicles. Aquatic specialist imperial guard forces probably exist (it's a big galaxy), but their specialized vehicle assets mean that they probably only get deployed to water worlds. Someone in a similar thread suggested that things like battleships probably get deployed once and then never brought up into space again, and I think that's very fitting for the setting. If you're the guy who has to manage the logistics of raising and deploying guard regiments, would you rather raise a regiment that can be deployed on any inhabited imperial world, or an aquatic regiment that you can only really use on that one water world in your region of space?

And for a lot of xenos with skimmer tech, wet navies and aerial navies are probably more or less the same thing.

Also, aquatic aspect warriors. How cool would those be?

Wyldhunt wrote:
Also, aquatic aspect warriors. How cool would those be?

Dashing Dolphins? Stalking Sharks? Jumping Jellyfish? Insert your own adjective/aquatic animal combo!

Wyldhunt wrote:
Fire Caste is set on a water world and has one of the main imperial commanders running things out of an aquatic battleship. Plus, chimeras are amphibious.

One of the newer Farsight books has a scene set on another water world where an ork navy tries to attack an aquatic fortress.

Thanks for the heads I'll have to look into those titles.

I believe orks are the only faction to have rules in 40k game for boats, with their ork submersible. In lore it’s also shown they have these massive battleships, just read deff skwadron and you’ll see it.

The Guard had rules making their Chimeras amphibious.

Many years ago someone ran naval battles at Games Day.

I remember a scratch built ork air craft carrier and Imperial patrol boats.

This must have been around 2000 or 2001.

ZergSmasher wrote:

Wyldhunt wrote:
Also, aquatic aspect warriors. How cool would those be?

Dashing Dolphins? Stalking Sharks? Jumping Jellyfish? Insert your own adjective/aquatic animal combo!

When can I buy these new aspects?????

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
I believe orks are the only faction to have rules in 40k game for boats, with their ork submersible. In lore it’s also shown they have these massive battleships, just read deff skwadron and you’ll see it.

Really, might have to look into that, Ork pirates, I can picture an Ork captain on his massive ramshackle ship keel-hualing an Eldar farseer for the sh*ts and giggles on a world that is a combo of a massive water world with a few islands and a death world.

Hmm SOB Bikini beach party?, now there's some *heresy* that the Big-E would approve of.

Racerguy180 wrote:

ZergSmasher wrote:

Wyldhunt wrote:
Also, aquatic aspect warriors. How cool would those be?

Dashing Dolphins? Stalking Sharks? Jumping Jellyfish? Insert your own adjective/aquatic animal combo!

When can I buy these new aspects?????

Normally I'd joke and say, "Right after the old phoenix lords get new models," but hey...

Dashing Dolphins: Nullify and store kinetic resistance to move swiftly through the water with their gravpacks. That stored force is used to power their miniaturized vibro cannons and vibro mines which they use to disable enemy crews through the hulls of ships. Originally an offshoot of the howling banshee shrine, the dashing dolphins represent Khaine's stored fury, released only when he's ready to strike and not clumsily before. On turns in which Dashing Dolphins units advance, they gain a sonic token. You may spend any number of sonic tokens when a Dashing Dolphins unit shoots to up the Strength and AP of their weapons by 1. (Also like the idea of a siren-inspired variant with mechanical mermaid tails.)

Stalking Sharks: Like the striking scorpions from which this aspect derives, stalking sharks are master ambushers. Their armor incorporates a complex series of grav suspensors and amplifiers which they use to subtly redirect the currents around them, allowing them to drift motionlessly beneath their targets. Once in position, their grav suits allow them to effectively amplify their physical strength, propelling them towards target vessels at speed with conventional swimming motions. Once aboard, their fin-shaped arm saws, helm-mounted maw blasters, and their exarch's maw claw make them horrifically efficient within the bowels of enemy vessels. (Could be cool to make these guys more shrimp-like too.)

Jumping Jellyfish: Among the most sinister and terrifying of aspect warriors. Jumping Jellyfish use their billowing grav mantels to maneuver gracefully through the water. Such agility is essential once they start releasing their sting nets which combine a monofilament weave with the nerve-torturing technology found in drukhari agonizers. Weaving elegantly around the crimson blooms of foes thrashing in their slowly-sinking nets, these warriors board enemy vessels by floating skyward and quickly repositioning using the oversized agonizer lashes that extend from their gauntlets. Yet more sting net grenades erupt across decking turning the floor itself into a hazard for foes; a hazard which these gently floating eldar need not touch.

Working in concert, the dolphins and jellyfish leave enemy crew helpless to defend themselves while the sharks board and gut the ship's bowels. Thus disabled, enemy ships are left to drift, eerily bereft of overt battle damage. For the eldar disdain to fill the oceans of the worlds they protect with the oil, rust, and radiation that normally accompanies the death of human and orkish vessels.

If I recall correctly the Death Guard used large Zombie whales on Vigilus to transport poxwalkers and Gellarpox infected. But I might be misremembering and it could be that these things were actually flying and not swimming

Wyldhunt wrote:

Racerguy180 wrote:

ZergSmasher wrote:

Wyldhunt wrote:
Also, aquatic aspect warriors. How cool would those be?

Dashing Dolphins? Stalking Sharks? Jumping Jellyfish? Insert your own adjective/aquatic animal combo!

When can I buy these new aspects?????

Normally I'd joke and say, "Right after the old phoenix lords get new models," but hey...

Dashing Dolphins: Nullify and store kinetic resistance to move swiftly through the water with their gravpacks. That stored force is used to power their miniaturized vibro cannons and vibro mines which they use to disable enemy crews through the hulls of ships. Originally an offshoot of the howling banshee shrine, the dashing dolphins represent Khaine's stored fury, released only when he's ready to strike and not clumsily before. On turns in which Dashing Dolphins units advance, they gain a sonic token. You may spend any number of sonic tokens when a Dashing Dolphins unit shoots to up the Strength and AP of their weapons by 1. (Also like the idea of a siren-inspired variant with mechanical mermaid tails.)

Stalking Sharks: Like the striking scorpions from which this aspect derives, stalking sharks are master ambushers. Their armor incorporates a complex series of grav suspensors and amplifiers which they use to subtly redirect the currents around them, allowing them to drift motionlessly beneath their targets. Once in position, their grav suits allow them to effectively amplify their physical strength, propelling them towards target vessels at speed with conventional swimming motions. Once aboard, their fin-shaped arm saws, helm-mounted maw blasters, and their exarch's maw claw make them horrifically efficient within the bowels of enemy vessels. (Could be cool to make these guys more shrimp-like too.)

Jumping Jellyfish: Among the most sinister and terrifying of aspect warriors. Jumping Jellyfish use their billowing grav mantels to maneuver gracefully through the water. Such agility is essential once they start releasing their sting nets which combine a monofilament weave with the nerve-torturing technology found in drukhari agonizers. Weaving elegantly around the crimson blooms of foes thrashing in their slowly-sinking nets, these warriors board enemy vessels by floating skyward and quickly repositioning using the oversized agonizer lashes that extend from their gauntlets. Yet more sting net grenades erupt across decking turning the floor itself into a hazard for foes; a hazard which these gently floating eldar need not touch.

Working in concert, the dolphins and jellyfish leave enemy crew helpless to defend themselves while the sharks board and gut the ship's bowels. Thus disabled, enemy ships are left to drift, eerily bereft of overt battle damage. For the eldar disdain to fill the oceans of the worlds they protect with the oil, rust, and radiation that normally accompanies the death of human and orkish vessels.

Wow, I was just making a little joke, but you fleshed it out and turned it into something awesome! Wish I could exalt this more than once!

The only reason we don't really hear or see much of this is almost purely because GW don't make a sea combat game for 40K; nor include sea units on battle maps for supporting ground attacks (which would be cool but require much bigger tables).


Otherwise there are loads of ways that they already write out orbital and space deployment which shifts the battle fully planet side. Anti-air guns; vast spore clouds; magnetic fields; shields; local space defence force (you can't very well fire at the ground if other space ships are attacking you in space - or at least not very easily). Even down to the fact that space ordinance is very high damage and they want to preserve ground assets from total oblivion.


Worlds with a much higher water content and less land to almost no land would also necessitate the use of sea forces. Of course the Imperium being the Imperium they'd likely build huge floating cities (which would then keep sinking creating a huge sunken "undercity" which would eventually hit the bottom of the ocean as they kept adding layers on top).



It would be neat to see a sea based game. Forces like Eldar and Tau would probably see a lot of their ground units move onto the sea as they have anti-grave engines, but they'd likely also have much bigger sea only designed units.

Great now I want "Dystopian Wars in the 40K setting" as a game darn it.

I believe it was our forum's own Easy E who wrote a set of rules called Aquanautica Imperialis, which "plays like a mash-up of Battlefleet: Gothic, Man-o-War, and Dystopian Wars. It has rules for submarines, flyers, torpedoes, mines, etc."

 Overread wrote:


Great now I want "Dystopian Wars in the 40K setting" as a game darn it.

Or just play Dystopian Wars?

I mean it's got as much big and silly stuff as epic or Titanicus

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 Overread wrote:


Great now I want "Dystopian Wars in the 40K setting" as a game darn it.

Or just play Dystopian Wars?

I mean it's got as much big and silly stuff as epic or Titanicus

I mean that too but I'm waiting for two things to happen

1) WC to release more of the fancy stuff - they've done really great bringing the core of the armies so far, but I want to see fancy stuff and airships and stuff.

2) My Wallet to somehow gain more money.



Though I will say that I think that Spartan Games designers had the edge on WC in terms of design. Just something about the Spartan designs felt more, I don't want to say polished but just "right" for the setting and game. Granted they had a lot of years to get to that point and some of their early stuff, like the early Dragon Lords for Uncharted Seas were very rough and ready in terms of design and sculpting quality. So WC are starting well ahead - heck I actually really like their American forces and I never liked the Spartan designs for them.

Of course some elements are different because of material, WC have gone for plastics which have robbed some fine details and some detail aspects compared to resins, but on the flipside it leaves them far more robust at delivering more models to gamers as the game grows. And they've really done fantastically well at giving diverse kits - the cruisers are so diverse in what you can get out of one sprue.

Deepkin Exodites for the win!!!

 infinite_array wrote:
I believe it was our forum's own Easy E who wrote a set of rules called Aquanautica Imperialis, which "plays like a mash-up of Battlefleet: Gothic, Man-o-War, and Dystopian Wars. It has rules for submarines, flyers, torpedoes, mines, etc."

Thanks for the info and the link.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Overread wrote:

Great now I want "Dystopian Wars in the 40K setting" as a game darn it.

This Dystopian Wars sounds like it's set on earth after the collapse of the world's government, who made/makes this game?

Kargan3033 wrote:

 Overread wrote:

Great now I want "Dystopian Wars in the 40K setting" as a game darn it.

This Dystopian Wars sounds like it's set on earth after the collapse of the world's government, who made/makes this game?

It's now with Warcradle Studios / Wayland Games - linky

Kargan3033 wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
A submarine is used at the beginning of a novella to drop Imperial forces on an island controlled by Chaos. Also, a Chaos warband known as the Steel Cobras lives deep in the ammonia oceans of Tukaroe VII, and a campaign against them would require underwater vehicles.

Really what was that from, I'd like to read about it.

It's called Death Knell.

Kargan3033 wrote:

This Dystopian Wars sounds like it's set on earth after the collapse of the world's government, who made/makes this game?

IIRC the first version was just pure Steampunk. The Great Powers of the 19th/early 20th Century with what people thought the future would look like. Bigger, meaner battleships, armed blimps, steam powered robots etc. Plus everyone had weaponized monuments, from rolling Westminster Cathedral Tanks to the Statue of Liberty standing on 2 blimps shooting lasers from her torch. It was either stupid or awesome. Sometimes both.

And everyone's ships reflected some national cliche. American ships were all Mississippi style side paddle boats, Chinese ships were all pagodas, Japanese ships were all floating locomotives which was kind of cool. And either Japan or China had a flying mechadragon. And England had a 4 legged walking castle mecha.

The current version renamed and consolidated the factions, not sure what the fluff is now.

Just from a peruse from the outside it seems like a steampunk alt-history WW1-ish game.