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What do we think of this?

Captain - terminator armour, chainfist, combi-melta, Warden of Macragge, Helm of Censure - 110

10 man Tactical Squad - plasma pistol, power sword, missile launcher, meltagun - 215
7 man Tactical Squad - plasmagun - 136

6 man Bladeguard Squad - 210pts
Dreadnought - DCCW w/ heavy flamer, twin heavy flamer [legends] - 125

796 all up.

I worry it's too slow? And it lacks anti-tank?

Well, what is your goal? 800 points is a strange points level to be at, especially if we are talking competitively. Or are we talking fun-and-fluffy?

If your opponents want to exploit a presumed lack of heavy weapons in 800 points, then they're going to do that. So I just wouldnt worry about it too much. Maybe you'll lose some games because of it but... it's just hard to give advice. You probably know the kind of opponents you'll likely be up against better than we do.

With all of that said.... 2 squads of tactical marines seems like a lot for 800 points. You only need 1 squad for a patrol, and it doesn't even necessarily have to be a 10 man. So taking so many tac marines is a choice. And it's a choice that I'm not sure exactly what it accomplishes.

What secondaries do you plan to take? (assuming you are using secondaries?) You need to think about how you are going to score points as you are constructing your army list.

At 800 points the "kill" type secondaries arent going to yield a lot of VP. For example, assassination will likely only give you 3 vp max because your opponent probably isnt taking more than one character. Similarly things like No Prisoners aren't likely to give you a whole ton of points because your opponent just wont have that many models/wounds on the board for you to kill, even if you wipe them all out.

So I would say that the mobility/action type secondaries are probably where you can score the most points. Things like Retrieve Nachmund Data, or Engage on all Fronts, or Deploy Teleport Homers. You might be able to score a bit off of Warp Ritual or Psychic Interrogation.

So I would gear my list towards being able to accomplish secondaries that will score you these kinds of points. I might try to include a psyker, or some sort of utility unit like Incursors or Infiltrators who will be good at doing Nachmund Data or Teleport Homers. Maybe bikes or another fast unit to try to Engage on all Fronts.

Marines these days you probably arent going to overpower your opponents army, especially if they have one of the newer books. You may be able to outscore them though. Good luck.

800pts is what my local does for "pick up games", I used the term "Little League" more because it alliterated than to show any real desire for competition.
My goal is a fun and moderately functional list, I don't want to get pasted.

I ran two squads of Tacticals because I ran out of Elites slots and nothing in HS/FA takes my fancy :(
Other than a Vindicator, but I know they suck hard eggs.
I also want to avoid Primaris other than Bladeguard as I just don't like the aesthetic.
So the intention was precisely to worry less about murdering the enemy off the board and go for objectives.

Do you think dropping the second Tatical Squad for another HQ would be good? Perhaps a Chaplain? Or a Phobos Sniper Captain?
I was concerned it would leave me too few boots on the ground?

I think that taking a *different* HQ would be a good idea. Whether or not taking a *second* HQ is a good plan is another story.

2 HQs you're investing 200 out of 800 points on 2 models, which is a lot. Still, I cant help but feel your instincts are right for something else here. Your captain doesnt do much for you. His reroll 1s to hit aura isnt going to put in a lot of work for you in this list. You have a flamer dread (doesnt roll to hit), some bladeguard (only pistols), and some tactical marines (generally weak firepower). I see you're trying to ensure that your special guns get their hits through, but realistically this is probably only going to come up a couple of times per game, and it isn't worth taking a Captain as your HQ choice for that.

I might suggest a Librarian to go for warp ritual or psychic interrogation. If you dont want to do that then a Chaplain would be a good pick. He has a lot of buffs that will probably be a lot more useful than what the Captain can offer.

The Phobos captain (who is primaris =p) seems to attract people but... I don't really see his worth. A 3 damage shot at str4 just isnt enough to kill enemy characters. I get that a sniper hero seems pretty cool, but he doesn't cut it unfortunately. If you want snipers take Eliminators, they're much better at it.

You could swap your bladeguard for vanguard veterans. They're probably the only non-primaris unit that still stacks up really well against their primaris counterparts (outside of unique chapters; Dark Angel terminators, etc)

If you're really against Primaris for aesthetic reasons, I'd really suggest switching to Dark Angels, Blood Angels, or Space Wolves (in that order). Those chapters have all the best stuff for Firstborn marines.

To offer another take; Ultramarines can Firstborn with the best of em, we still have decent strats & characters! Other chapters may have more specialised units but if it’s standard tacticals that’re your jam, blue is as good as any

To echo the post above to a degree, that’s a lot of tacticals. If you’re looking for a decent power armoured board presence, there’s nothing wrong with tact spam, but you may find Sternguard do the same thing but better for like 5pts diff? I guess loss of obj sec is tax enough at 800.

Also consider devastator squads, often overlooked but they can also be padded out with 5 bodies like a tact squad to protect a greater number of assets/heavy weapons, so you might want to think on that?

The captain is an alright pick, but 2HQs at 800 is way too many points, I’d consider substituting him for a chaplain, you can always pop Wisdom of the Ancients on your dread for a re-roll aura if that units really gotta take some hits. In addition this gives you access to recitation of focus for +1 to hit, boosting your marines shooting by 16.6%

Reject primaris
Firstborn forever

Sternguard are a good idea, I had considered those but ultimately rejected them.

I'll have another go at the list when I get the chance.

EDIT: I just remember why I didn't go with Sternguard, they're Elites!
You only get two Elites slots in a Patrol. A Vanguard would get me a lot more, but is an expensive 3CP. A Battalion would defeat the point as after taking 2 HQs and 3 Troops I wouldn't be able to afford 3 Elites anyways.

Which means I'm a bit stuck.It's rather unfortunate that none of the units in Heavy Support or Fast Attack really capture my interest in nearly the same way as Troops or Elites do. Except Vindicators. But Vindicators are so gak they're entirely boring to play, no matter how cool they may be.

*Take advice lightly as I am semi-unskilled in 9th & haven't played a game over 1k PTS solo yet*

Can agree on Devastator Squads in Heavy SUpport, they can pack a punch while staying on the backline & you don't have to take all 4 heavy weapons if you don't want to (or don't have enough).

If you do plan to keep the Captain you could try Company Veterans which one squad takes no force slot while the Captain's in the force which they then allow one Company Champion, Company Apothecary & Company Ancient to also not take up a slot (btw all 4 of those are Elite choices normally). Company Veterans can also take almost any wargear a Vanguard Veteran can minus a Jet Pack (Want a breaching team of Storm Shields & combi-weapons or all flamers, they can do it, heck if you take 5 the 5th guy can go heavy weapon/Storm Shield which is silly, hilarious & mildly expensive). Also don't under estimate Firstborn bikes or Land speeders, their semi-cheep bodies that can bring a far amount of Dakka (1 Assault Cannon & Heavy Bolter Land Speeder, 9 shots at base AP -1, costs 80-85PTS for a T6 3+ save 6 wounds vehicle with 18" movement, or how about the 65 PTS, Multi-Melta/Twin-Bolter, Attack bike).

I'd try to make a case for Dev Centurions or the Whirlwind but I know they suck atm, regardless that my roomie likes to take the Whirlwind & annoyingly pick off stuff all game.

actually I'll vouch for the whirlie. I dont know if I'd take it in 800 points, but it's not bad. Cheap little tank that can keep your opponent honest when it comes to holding their back field objective. And it has an incredibly annoying stratagem (Suppressive Fire).

while we're on the subject of vehicles, you might swap out your dread for a different pattern. The Redemptor is pretty good. And before anybody says it's primaris, it's not.

Anyway, to be fair, the OP said that the Firstborn Fast attack/heavy weren't interesting to them, not that they didn't think the units were good. B/c if we're talking about good firstborn fast attack; Attack bikes are amazing...

At 800 points you should be focused on taking only stuff that will contribute in as many phases as possible, slow short range units won't do much other than sit on objectives in your table half while getting shot at, which tacs with a heavy weapon can do better.

Good cheap multi purpose units for ultras would be things like tyrannic war vets (cost of a tac marine, statline and gun of a sternguard), attack bikes (table quarters, objectives, anti tank), whirlwind (range and ignore LOS), relic terminators with bolter/claw (like bladeguard but with range).

Something like this perhaps?

Company Veterans and Tyrannic War Veterans are a great shout!
I'll have a play around with those



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How's this for another take?

Captain - Relic Blade, MC bolter, Armour Indomitus, Warden of Maccrage
95

5x Company Veterans - 5x Stormshields, 4x poweraxes, 1x thunderhammer
144

Drop Pod - Deathwind (for the above)
70

Dreadnought - twin H.flamer, DCCW, H.flamer
125

8x Tyrannic War Veterans
136

5x Tacticals - plasma pistol, powersword, plasmagun
110
5x Tacticals - plasma pistol, powersword, Missile launcher
115

985 all up

With Shock Assault, and 2 or 3 attacks base (ie Company Veterans), the Lightning Claw is better than Power Axe in every situation (unless there is a negates rerolls). At 4 attacks base, there are a few breakpoints where the PA breaks even with LC (just T5), otherwise LC still wins.