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I cast a psykick debuff on Mozrog Skragbad, fight last. I kill him in the shooting phase and he comes back and charge him in the charge face. Does he stil have the dbeuff on him?

From what I can see it is a bit unclear. And might be a RAW vs RAI.

Surly as a Squiggoth: The first time this WARLORD is destroyed, you can choose to roll one D6 at the end of the phase instead of using any rules that are triggered when a model is destroyed (e.g. the Orks is Never Beaten Stratagem). If you do so, then on a 4+, set this WARLORD back up on the battlefield as close as possible to where they were destroyed and not within Engagement Range of any enemy models, with D3 wounds remaining.

https://wahapedia.ru/wh40k9ed/factions/orks/Mozrog-Skragbad

I did not find it covered under resurrected models. But I did find this:

On rare rules page 91: Repositionioned and Replacement units:

REPOSITIONED AND REPLACEMENT UNITS
Some rules enable units to teleport or else be repositioned and set back up on the battlefield. Other rules enable units to removed from the battlefield and be replaced by a new, full-strength unit, which is then set up on the battlefield. If a rule causes a unit to be removed from the battlefield and subsequently set back up, the following rules apply to it:

1. Rules that are triggered by or apply to units that are ‘set up on the battlefield as Reinforcements’ are also triggered by and apply to that unit when it is set up on the battlefield.

2. Models in units that arrived as Reinforcements count as having moved a distance in inches equal to their Move characteristic this Movement phase. If the unit has a minimum Move characteristic, it counts as having moved its maximum Move characteristic.

3. The unit cannot make a Normal Move, Advance, Fall Back or Remain Stationary that turn for any reason.

4. If that unit was within Engagement Range of an enemy unit when it was removed from the battlefield, it does not count as having Fallen Back when it is set back up on the battlefield.

5. If that unit Advanced this battle round, it still counts as having Advanced after it has been set back up on the battlefield.

6. Any destroyed models in that unit when it is removed are still destroyed when their unit is set back up on the battlefield. If they were destroyed this turn, they still count towards any Morale tests taken this turn.

7. Any models in that unit that have lost any wounds do not regain those wounds when they are removed, and will still have lost them when their unit is set back up on the battlefield.

8. Any rules that unit was being affected by when it was removed, and which would continue to affect it for a specific duration (from abilities, Stratagems, psychic powers, etc.) continue to affect that unit until such a point as they would normally have no longer applied. For example, a unit that was within range of an aura ability when it was removed would no longer be affected by that ability if it was set up outside of that aura’s range, whereas a unit that was being affected by a psychic power that lasted until the end of that turn would still be affected by it until the end of that turn.

9. If that unit was performing an action, that action immediately fails.

10. Such rules can, if they occur in the Movement phase, be used on units that arrived as Reinforcements this phase and/or on units that have already been selected to move this phase.

Note that points 5-8 do not apply to any unit that has been set up because it is replacing a destroyed unit (including units set up via a rule that instructs you to remove a unit then set it back up at its full starting strength). These rules represent new units joining the fight, rather than the existing units being repositioned on the battlefield.

So, rule 8 states that Morzrog keeps his psykick debuff. RAW, he keeps the debuff. But then it states "note that rule 5-8 does not apply to any unit that has been set up because it is replacing a destroyed unit." Are you replacing the unit? "These rules represent new units joining the fight, rather than the existing units being repositioned on the battlefield." So now there are 2 Mozrog in the game? Even though he is a named character? By RAW he does not keep the debuff, but by RAI he should not?

Or am I reading all of this wrong?

By RAW we don't know what to do with the debuff. Just because Rule 8 doesn't apply doesn't mean he doesn't keep the debuff. There isn't anything RAW that says either way.

Morzog was destroyed. The Stratagem even says it twice. "model is destroyed" and "as close as possible to where they were destroyed" He isn't undestroyed.

Also Morzog isn't a new unit joining the fight. The same thing could happen to Guilliman. I'd apply Rule 8 against my own guy, but that's RAI.

Yeah. Fair enough. The RAI will ride here I suppose.

5-8 apply it's not a new unit being set up. It is the old model being set up again not a replacement unit.

8 is then clear the debuff would remain

the key quote is "set this WARLORD back up" referring to the model not the unit. (Set the warlord back up, not set the warlords unit back up)


The exact wording varies but replacement units typically say they count as a unit arriving from reinforcement or move the unit and return it to their starting strength

non-replacement units such as canis rex or pink/blue horrors refer to the models involved instead of the unit.


TIDE OF TRAITORS

Chaos Space Marines Stratagem

The galaxy is filled with pathetic wretches who give themselves willingly to Chaos for the chance to win power and glory.

Use this Stratagem at the end of your Movement phase. If you do, pick a unit of Chaos Cultists and remove it from the battlefield. You can then set it up again wholly within 6" of the edge of the battlefield and more than 9" from any enemy models, at its full starting strength. You can only use this Stratagem once per battle


One RAI fluff wise represents the existing character/unit getting back up and continuing to fight and one represents an entirely new unit arriving

U02dah4 wrote:
5-8 apply it's not a new unit being set up. It is the old model being set up again not a replacement unit.

8 is then clear the debuff would remain

the key quote is "set this WARLORD back up" referring to the model not the unit. (Set the warlord back up, not set the warlords unit back up)

"8. Any rules that unit..." If you're going to differentiate between model and unit, 8 still doesn't apply because it says unit not model - but ironically 7 says models are still destroyed. So the Warlord model is set back up but still destroyed and we're still in unformed RAW.
I suspect two things - these rules might not be on point for this scenario, AND they may not have written this as carefully as they should the way they're swapping unit and model in and out.

It talks about placing a new unit. Not reassure ting models. It is teqnically in the last genre.

Is this a case where it varies of the psykick power targets a model or a unit?

You are technically right 8 doesn't apply because it is not a new unit being set up on the battlefield it is the existing unit so it still applies

U02dah4 wrote:
You are technically right 8 doesn't apply because it is not a new unit being set up on the battlefield it is the existing unit so it still applies

Something that is destroyed is removed from play and can not be an existing unit.

"If a model’s wounds are reduced to 0 or less, it is destroyed and removed from play." P. 18 PDF rules making attacks page.

 DeathReaper wrote:

U02dah4 wrote:
You are technically right 8 doesn't apply because it is not a new unit being set up on the battlefield it is the existing unit so it still applies

Something that is destroyed is removed from play and can not be an existing unit.

"If a model’s wounds are reduced to 0 or less, it is destroyed and removed from play." P. 18 PDF rules making attacks page.

I'd say by RAW there is no RAW. The rules that have been quoted exempt themselves from covering the issue. By RAI and HIWPI - He keeps the debuff.

Breton wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

U02dah4 wrote:
You are technically right 8 doesn't apply because it is not a new unit being set up on the battlefield it is the existing unit so it still applies

Something that is destroyed is removed from play and can not be an existing unit.

"If a model’s wounds are reduced to 0 or less, it is destroyed and removed from play." P. 18 PDF rules making attacks page.

I'd say by RAW there is no RAW. The rules that have been quoted exempt themselves from covering the issue. By RAI and HIWPI - He keeps the debuff.

The RAW seems to cover it. RAW the model/Unit is destroyed and removed from play.

Buffs/Debuffs can not exist on something that is not in play.

By RAI and HIWPI Any model that is is destroyed and removed from play would absolutely not keep any buffs/debuffs.

 DeathReaper wrote:


I'd say by RAW there is no RAW. The rules that have been quoted exempt themselves from covering the issue. By RAI and HIWPI - He keeps the debuff.

The RAW seems to cover it. RAW the model/Unit is destroyed and removed from play.

"These rules represent" It not in itself a rule. That sentence seems to be just fluff.