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Wondering how you all interpret how these two rules interact.

Light Saedath: Each time an attack is made against a unit with this characterization, if the attacking model is more than 12" away an unmodified hit roll of 1-3 for that attack fails, irrespective of any abilities that the weapon or the model making that attack may have.

Keen Senses: Use this stratagem in your shooting phase. Select one Space Wolves Infantry, Space Wolves Biker, or Space Wolves Cavalry unit from your army. Until the end of the turn, you can ignore any or all hit roll, ballistic skill, and weapon skill modifiers, and each time you make a charge roll for that unit, you can ignore any or all modifiers to that charge.

Is the Light Saedath ability technically a BS modifier?

I'm leaning towards no so keen senses doesn't bypass this rule but I was just curious how everyone else reads it.

The Space Wolves ignore all modifiers to their balistic skill, roll their hits, and then miss on any dice that read 1, 2 or 3. You apply both rules.

It is not a modifier

Yeah even on its own Keen Senses doesn't work here because its not a BS modifier or a roll modifier.

It doesn't make you shoot at BS 4, it causes 1-3 to fail. The fact that those things are practically the same isn't relevant to the rule.

In addition to that its the "irrespective of any abilities that the weapon or the model making that attack may have". So even in a different reading where Keen Senses could work, the ability specifically mentions that it won't work anyway.

 Ordana wrote:
In addition to that its the "irrespective of any abilities that the weapon or the model making that attack may have". So even in a different reading where Keen Senses could work, the ability specifically mentions that it won't work anyway.

Keen senses is a stratagem not an ability, Light Saedath is irrespective of "abilities" if Light Saedath were deemed to be a modifier (which I don't believe it is) keen senses would work just fine.

Stratagems are still abilities.

And modifiers are defined in the rules, The "Light Saedath" rule does not fit that definition, so its effects are not a modifier.

I feel like the 'un-modified hit/wound rolls of 1-2/3 auto fail' rules are a mistake. They should have stuck with something like you are considered to have a BS of 4+ or worse, and a Strength of X or worse to allow for other stacking rules to continue being useful. Instead of making a new rule that breaks a bunch of other rules.

Rules like Incursors ignoring BS/hit/cover modifiers, and +1 to hit/wound/etc.