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This new horus-heresy set could bring a ton of money to games-workshop, this is also in line with the up-coming Chaos Space-marine codex, I can't remember but I think the chaos tactical boys are also getting a new set. That being said, it would really be in line with games-workshop trend to add buffs to tactical marines, I could really see the standard bolter getting some sort of buff, I could also see a point reduction, really anything to get tactical marines back on the table-top.

I doubt it, they've had the Mk.III/IV set for sale with the banner up for years now without a single change to the datasheet.
These are will be branded for HH and have no effect.

I would agree if it was just the new horus-heresy plastic kit, but with Chaos-space marine codex hopefully around the corner, I could really see a small uprising of tactical boys, even if its just a point reduction

I doubt they'll touch Tacticals until the codex, if at all.

I dont think a point reduction counts as touching?

I still think they are managing out the firstborn from 40k. I don't expect to see any buffs for tacticals including points.

Also, remember we had some amazing new CSM basic and terminator sculpts a while back and they were quite happy to give them dumpster fire rules for the length of 9th edition.

EightFoldPath wrote:
I still think they are

Spoiler:

soft squatting... oops... I mean

managing out the firstborn from 40k. I don't expect to see any buffs for tacticals including points.

Also, remember we had some amazing new CSM basic and terminator sculpts a while back and they were quite happy to give them dumpster fire rules for the length of 9th edition.

people have been saying say since 8th edition, you'd think after 9th edition literally buffed firstborns they'd stop repeating that mantra

soft squatting... oops... I mean[/spoiler]managing out the firstborn from 40k. I don't expect to see any buffs for tacticals including points.

Also, remember we had some amazing new CSM basic and terminator sculpts a while back and they were quite happy to give them dumpster fire rules for the length of 9th edition.

I don’t think firstborn rules will disappear. If the new CSM statline is still the equivalent of Tacticals they’re getting +1 attack (possibly with the lose of Shock Assault like GK?) and +1 Ld. That’s just speculation but CSM have always shared the same statlines as Tacs.

What I do think will disappear is the current Firstborn kits. GW will probably expect players in future to use the new true-scale HH Tacticals, once the current 40k one is retired.

Jarms48 wrote:

soft squatting... oops... I mean[/spoiler]managing out the firstborn from 40k. I don't expect to see any buffs for tacticals including points.

Also, remember we had some amazing new CSM basic and terminator sculpts a while back and they were quite happy to give them dumpster fire rules for the length of 9th edition.

I don’t think firstborn rules will disappear. If the new CSM statline is still the equivalent of Tacticals they’re getting +1 attack (possibly with the lose of Shock Assault like GK?) and +1 Ld. That’s just speculation but CSM have always shared the same statlines as Tacs.

What I do think will disappear is the current Firstborn kits. GW will probably expect players in future to use the new true-scale HH Tacticals, once the current 40k one is retired.

No, CSM haven't always shared the same statline as Tacs. I can't speak for RT and 2nd, as I didn't play those, but in 3rd and 4th a basic CSM was Ld9, while a basic Tac was LD8, with all other stats being the same. Starting in late 4th and through 5th (with the "4th edition" CSM codex) this stayed the same, however, even though both CSM and Tacs both had 1 attack, CSM essentially had two, because they were armed with a boltgun, bolt pistol, and CCW, while Tacs had only a boltgun and bolt pistol. Then starting with the 6th edition CSM codex, the CCW was gone, and the basic Leadership for a CSM dropped to LD8, although you could get back up to Ld9 by purchasing VotLW for 1 PPM, which became free for all CSM hailing from one of the original 9 Traitor Legions in the Traitor Legions supplement. Then in 8th all differences between the statlines of CSM and Tacs were finally removed completely.

So, it may be possible that Tacs will get similar statlines to the CSM in the 9th edition CSM codex, or they may just be planning on reintroducing these differences.

Was the CC weapon on CSM in 5th automatic? I thought you had to buy it.

CSM had the same Ld. as Space Marines. Both loyalists and CSM could get a Veteran Sergeant with Ld 9.

I see the point about Ld from 6th ed as being a point about customizability, personally. You could have your stalwart vets, or your sorta lousy CSM mooks. I thought the default bonus extra Ld from 3rd-5th was a good counterpoint to the very powerful ATSKNF of the loyalists though.

It will mean back to 1 Wound

I could see a fair number of players using Heresy plastic in a CSM army- they'd make great veteran models.

I don't think the models will necessarily prompt 40k buffs, though they might affect load-out options.

Personally, I'm curious to see which plastic HH vehicles get 40k rules. This could breathe new life into old-marines just like the 2nd wound did- even without any new rules for the marines themselves.

The buffs could come along with a bonus of fielding armies of only tactical marines and no primaris, I think its rumored chaos-marines are going to get special bolter rounds. Still tho a simple point reduction could cause the tactical marines to become great at holding objectives and doing actions, maybe add a secondary action that a simple unit of servitors can't do. If they do buff tanks, could combo well with tactical marines, also dreadnaughts are always a good choice.

 Insectum7 wrote:
Was the CC weapon on CSM in 5th automatic? I thought you had to buy it.

CSM had the same Ld. as Space Marines. Both loyalists and CSM could get a Veteran Sergeant with Ld 9.

I see the point about Ld from 6th ed as being a point about customizability, personally. You could have your stalwart vets, or your sorta lousy CSM mooks. I thought the default bonus extra Ld from 3rd-5th was a good counterpoint to the very powerful ATSKNF of the loyalists though.

The CC weapon was part of the basic loadout for CSM in the 5th edition codex, so yes, it was "free". Veteran Sergeants were Ld9, but Aspiring Champions were Ld10 from 3rd to 5th, and again in 6th if you paid for VotLW. And the bonus from VotLW in the 6th edition codex was a sad way to represent Veteran CSM compared to the Veteran Skills of 3.5.

Totally agreed on the way the extra leadership for CSM juxtaposed with loyalists having ATSKNF. CSM were harder to break, but would run if they did, loyalist were easier to break, but would rally and regroup because they had greater discipline. I also loved how loyalists really wanted their leaders to stay alive in 4th so that they could use their leadership, but CSM were still just fine without their warlord. It was a good way to differentiate the two factions.

bat702 wrote:
This new horus-heresy set could bring a ton of money to games-workshop, this is also in line with the up-coming Chaos Space-marine codex, I can't remember but I think the chaos tactical boys are also getting a new set. That being said, it would really be in line with games-workshop trend to add buffs to tactical marines, I could really see the standard bolter getting some sort of buff, I could also see a point reduction, really anything to get tactical marines back on the table-top.

Personally I don't understand why Tacs arent on the tabletop more, because they seem superior to every other troops choice. People seem unreasonably enamored with the Primaris models despite the capability the Tacticals bring with a Heavy weapon. Tacs with either Grav Cannon or Mtimelta have superior damage output at range. Some will say they lack Strat support but they can still Meltabomb in CC too, while Intercessors require a Strat to even compete with the output from Tacs in many cases.

Marines die too fast and too easy. Tacticals with upgrades may not get to use them. Meanwhile something like both the version of infiltration primaris, give a marine players a unit which can be on an objective turn 1. Plus they also bring limited utilty. A grav canon or MM has potential higher damag, but with what is run today the shots often have to get through invs, -1 to hit etc now if tacticals could run around with 2 MM or more they would be an interesting option, and we do have those in the form of devastators and aside for some early 9th drop pod actions we don't see them too often either.

Karol wrote:
Marines die too fast and too easy. Tacticals with upgrades may not get to use them. Meanwhile something like both the version of infiltration primaris, give a marine players a unit which can be on an objective turn 1. Plus they also bring limited utilty. A grav canon or MM has potential higher damag, but with what is run today the shots often have to get through invs, -1 to hit etc now if tacticals could run around with 2 MM or more they would be an interesting option, and we do have those in the form of devastators and aside for some early 9th drop pod actions we don't see them too often either.

I can't really speak to the Infiltrating options because I haven't played enough of 9th to really feel out the potential utility there (though I suspect it's highly variable depending on particular overall army strategy, as historically this is the case). But as to the invulns, Tacs with Grav still come out way ahead over Intercessors against Custodes, and on the opposite end the AP disadvantage of the boltgun becomes less apparent because the extra AP of a Bolt Rifle is wasted anyways.

And then you have the Multimelta, which is potentially just devastating to high-wound models.

Very doubtful. GW seems intent on pushing firstborn style marines towards Horus Heresy rather than continuing to support them in 40k, no reason to expect a buff there. Also based on known info about the new HH Mk 6 marines, they aren't getting any special or heavy weapons in the kit, just bolters, bayonets, and then some pistol/melee options for the Sgt. Nobody wants to field tacticals without their special and heavy weapon upgrades.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Very doubtful. GW seems intent on pushing firstborn style marines towards Horus Heresy rather than continuing to support them in 40k, no reason to expect a buff there. Also based on known info about the new HH Mk 6 marines, they aren't getting any special or heavy weapons in the kit, just bolters, bayonets, and then some pistol/melee options for the Sgt. Nobody wants to field tacticals without their special and heavy weapon upgrades.

Yes because in HH tac squads don't have heavy or special weapons. The double tap is kinda nice though.

Does anyone know if these new Tacticals will be Firstborn scale or Primaris scale?

Kaied wrote:
Does anyone know if these new Tacticals will be Firstborn scale or Primaris scale?

Probably the CSM scale, which is in between the two. The new Marine scale.