A handful of questions that probably have an easy answer...

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**random3**

Hi guys, played 3-4 games now after returning to the hobby after over a decade and I have a handful of rules clarifications that hopefully will have simple answers. Some of these rules I have found conflicting or out of date info on, so I figured I'd ask here to clear things up:

1. Regarding firing into Tau units that have one or more drones. Say I shoot at a Tau Broadside which is accompanied by a Shield Drone. My understanding is that I have to use the Broadside's toughness (5) instead of the Drone's toughness when determining wounds. Say I inflict 5 wounds at AP-4. My opponent can then choose to either take the 4+ invulnerable save on the Drone, or the 6+ (due to AP-4) armour save on the Broadside. Does my opponent decide where to take the wounds before rolling armour saves, and if so, do they have to slow roll in order to ensure the correct wounds and saves are calculated? Otherwise they could roll a 1 and four 6s and then decide if the 1 was a fail for the Drone or the Broadside, which doesn't seem correct.

2. Can two different units in the same army use the same Psychic Power during the same phase?

3. Can units that can use multiple abilities in one phase (such as Psychic powers or Ethereal Invocations) use the same one twice instead of casting two different ones?

4. When is it usually a good idea to Fall Back? From my (probably wrong) understanding of the rules it looks extremely risky to fall back.

5. Do you count as securing an objective if you are engaged in combat?

6. When you have a Character model moving with a regular unit, say a Commissar moving with a Command Squad, do separate charge and advance rolls have to be made given that these are two separate units? Additionally, if the Commissar casts an ability that means the Command Squad can advance and shoot, does this include the Commissar or is he treated as an entirely separate unit? This is my understanding of the rules, but it seems strange as it would result in the Command Squad being able to just run off and leave the Commissar standing out in the open.

7. I know you can't CP reroll a reroll but are there any other limitations on how frequently you can do this?

8. Does CP reroll (or any other reroll) let you reroll multiple dice in the case of something like a Psychic power or a charge roll, or are rerolls always strictly a single dice?

9. When I deep strike a unit in, is there a way to make sure they are as likely as possible to charge that turn? Because appearing 9" away and needing to roll a 9+ on two dice to charge, and on a 1-8 you stand there ready to be shot to pieces next turn seems a bit random.

10. If a model takes damage, you have to continue taking damage on that model until it has died. Does this apply across multiple phases/turns, and does it apply if the unit is not actually visible to the second attack?

11. Tau Battlesuits being able to fire their weapons at models they are in combat with seems absurdly strong. A 3 man squad can fire 9 high damage guns. That is EASILY 5-6 wounds, seemingly for free. Are there any limitations on this or is it just bad news for anyone who can't one-shot a unit of Battlesuits in one charge.

12. Tau Guardian drones mean that wounds of 1 or 2 always fail for their unit. How the hell does this work, because surely if the Guardian Drone eats the first couple of wounds itself and then dies, then by that point the wounds have already been decided, and I could have potentially rolled a load of 2s to wound that have failed because of the now-dead Guardian Drone.

13. In the case of models that have multiple guns, like a Tank or a Battlesuit, am I correct in my understanding that you have to declare the target of every weapon before firing any hit rolls?

14. In the case of models that have multiple melee weapons, am I correct in my understanding that they can use either or a combination of the two, but not both?

Sorry for the kinda scatterbrained approach here, and thanks for any answers!

**DeathReaper**

1) The allocation rules cover "where to take the wounds before rolling armour saves" You allocate the wound, then roll any saves that model may have. (P. 18 PDF rules under making attacks, section 3)

You allocate a wound, then roll for saves.

You can not fast roll any saves ever per RAW. Only to hit and wound rolls can be fast rolled in certain situations. (Though people fast roll saves sometimes when it does not matter to speed things up, this is breaking a rule, technically speaking).

6) Yes, different units need their own charge and advance rolls. (Why would two different units only need a single charge roll?)

14) Yes, you have to declare the target of every weapon before firing any hit rolls.

TBH most of your questions can be answered by re-reading the base rules. not many of these are unclear.

**Valkyrie**

random3 wrote:
Hi guys, played 3-4 games now after returning to the hobby after over a decade and I have a handful of rules clarifications that hopefully will have simple answers. Some of these rules I have found conflicting or out of date info on, so I figured I'd ask here to clear things up:

1. Regarding firing into Tau units that have one or more drones. Say I shoot at a Tau Broadside which is accompanied by a Shield Drone. My understanding is that I have to use the Broadside's toughness (5) instead of the Drone's toughness when determining wounds. Say I inflict 5 wounds at AP-4. My opponent can then choose to either take the 4+ invulnerable save on the Drone, or the 6+ (due to AP-4) armour save on the Broadside. Does my opponent decide where to take the wounds before rolling armour saves, and if so, do they have to slow roll in order to ensure the correct wounds and saves are calculated? Otherwise they could roll a 1 and four 6s and then decide if the 1 was a fail for the Drone or the Broadside, which doesn't seem correct.

Correct

2. Can two different units in the same army use the same Psychic Power during the same phase?
No

3. Can units that can use multiple abilities in one phase (such as Psychic powers or Ethereal Invocations) use the same one twice instead of casting two different ones?
In pretty much every circumstance I can think of, such as Chaplain abilities, the wording in the unit's datasheet says "you can do (the ability) that hasn't been done this phase"

4. When is it usually a good idea to Fall Back? From my (probably wrong) understanding of the rules it looks extremely risky to fall back.
It frees up the enemy unit for shooting, and many units now have abilities or strats allowing you do something after falling back.

5. Do you count as securing an objective if you are engaged in combat?
Yes

6. When you have a Character model moving with a regular unit, say a Commissar moving with a Command Squad, do separate charge and advance rolls have to be made given that these are two separate units? Yes
Additionally, if the Commissar casts an ability that means the Command Squad can advance and shoot, does this include the Commissar or is he treated as an entirely separate unit? This is my understanding of the rules, but it seems strange as it would result in the Command Squad being able to just run off and leave the Commissar standing out in the open.Correct, but yes, very strange

7. I know you can't CP reroll a reroll but are there any other limitations on how frequently you can do this?
A dice can never be rerolled more than once under any circumstances, the only exception I know of being the roll to determine deployment and first turn.

8. Does CP reroll (or any other reroll) let you reroll multiple dice in the case of something like a Psychic power or a charge roll, or are rerolls always strictly a single dice?
AFAIK, it must be all the dice unless specified

9. When I deep strike a unit in, is there a way to make sure they are as likely as possible to charge that turn? Because appearing 9" away and needing to roll a 9+ on two dice to charge, and on a 1-8 you stand there ready to be shot to pieces next turn seems a bit random.
Some units like Calladius and Mawlocs have an exception, it'll be noted in their datasheet. Otherwise you're relying on that 9"

10. If a model takes damage, you have to continue taking damage on that model until it has died. Does this apply across multiple phases/turns, and does it apply if the unit is not actually visible to the second attack?
Correct

11. Tau Battlesuits being able to fire their weapons at models they are in combat with seems absurdly strong. A 3 man squad can fire 9 high damage guns. That is EASILY 5-6 wounds, seemingly for free. Are there any limitations on this or is it just bad news for anyone who can't one-shot a unit of Battlesuits in one charge.
Correct, either make sure you kill them or suffer it afterwards.

12. Tau Guardian drones mean that wounds of 1 or 2 always fail for their unit. How the hell does this work, because surely if the Guardian Drone eats the first couple of wounds itself and then dies, then by that point the wounds have already been decided, and I could have potentially rolled a load of 2s to wound that have failed because of the now-dead Guardian Drone.
Wound rolls are all done before any saves are rolled.

13. In the case of models that have multiple guns, like a Tank or a Battlesuit, am I correct in my understanding that you have to declare the target of every weapon before firing any hit rolls?
Correct

14. In the case of models that have multiple melee weapons, am I correct in my understanding that they can use either or a combination of the two, but not both?
They can divide their attacks between weapons, but it must be declared before any dice are rolled. If you have a weapon which states "you may make extra attacks with this weapon", such as a Chainsword, then it must be with that weapon.

Sorry for the kinda scatterbrained approach here, and thanks for any answers!

**p5freak**

1. Armour saves are always rolled one at a time. There is no permission to fast roll them. Your opponent must allocate wounds to a model in the target unit, he can choose whatever model he likes. But, if a model loses wounds any further wounds must be allocated to that model until it dies.
2. No, each psychic power can only be attempted once per psychic phase, doesnt matter whether it was successfully manifested or not. The only exception is smite. Unless a special rule says otherwise.
3. No, unless a special rule says otherwise.
4. Usually there is no risk when falling back. There is a stratagem which can inflict MW on the unit falling back, but only when a 6 is rolled.
5. Yes. Unless a special rule says otherwise.
6. Yes to first question. A commissar cant cast an ability which lets a command squad advance and shoot. An officer can issue an order which allows the command squad to advance and shoot. That order would apply to him as well, when he is within 6" of the command squad.
7. You can only use the command reroll strat once per phase.
8. If a dice roll has multiple dice, all dice must be rerolled with the command reroll strat.
9. Many factions (not all) have special rules which help them with charge rolls after deepstriking.
10. Yes.
11. Blast weapons cannot be fired when in engagement range with enemy models. Heavy weapons suffer -1 to hit when fired in engagement range.
12. Dont know.
13. Yes.
14. A model can use any melee weapons it is equipped with in any combination.

**PlagueGardener**

1) My understanding is that your opponent has to chose who is making each save before rolling it and therefore they should slow roll them (the rules used to actually say that only hits and wound rolls could be fast rolled, I can't seem to find that in 9th). There are other situations such as having only a few models in a unit in cover when you also need to slow roll the save rolls.

2) No, other than Smite. (BRB pg. 215)

3) For psychic powers no (BRB pg. 215)

4) You might want to move the unit for some reason, to take an objective, or you might want other units to be able to shoot the unit that your unit is in melee combat with. If they remain engaged with your unit then, with some specific unit exceptions, you cannot shoot at them.

5) Yes (BRB pg. 237 does not say that being engaged in combat overrides the statement about how you determine control of an objective).

6) Commisars and Command squads are, I believe, separate units. I'm not overly familiar with the AM Codex but that is how most things work. They do not move together, they make separate charge and advance rolls. So yes you do have to be aware that a unit might get left behind a unit that you want it to accompany.

7) It's not just a CP re-roll that cannot be re-rolled but any re-roll. "A dice can never be rolled more than once" (BRB pg. 200).

8) You must re-roll the "the dice roll", which for things needing multiple dice such as a charge means that you must re-roll both, you cannot hold onto one of them (BRB pg. 200)

9) You can re-roll the charge roll with a CP and some armies also have ways that they can re-roll. I often blow 9+ charge rolls after I deep strike and, being Death Guard, my only option is a CP re-roll which I can only do once.

10) Once a model has taken damage then any future damage allocation must be made to it, this spans multiple phases (BRB pg. 221). Visibility of the model having the wound allocated to it is never taken into consideration.

11) Heavy weapons will have an additional -1 to hit while enemy units are within engagement range of the battle suit. But yes it's dangerous, kill them in melee so they can't shoot back.

12) I don't know the Tau codex well but it sounds like you should drop down to slow rolling the wound rolls one at a time.

13) Yes(BRB pg. 216)

14) They get to split their attacks between the melee weapons that they have but the total does not exceed the number of attacks they are allowed. So if a Daemon Prince is armed with a Sword and Talons and has six attacks then they could make 6 with the sword, or six with the talons or three with both, or any combination that adds up to six. (BRB pg. 230).

I'm sure that there are units that have exceptions for pretty much all of the rules above, but that is how the core rules work for those situations.

**kirotheavenger**

11. Note that battlesuits don't get to use ranged weapons as melee weapons, it just allowed them to shoot even if they're engaged. It just stops you locking them down and preventing them from shooting.

12. Yes, if the Tau player intends to kill the Guardian Drone first you'll have to slow roll attacks one by one until the drone dies.

**random3**

Thanks for the replies guys, all cleared up!

**DeadliestIdiot**

p5freak wrote:

6. Yes to first question. A commissar cant cast an ability which lets a command squad advance and shoot. An officer can issue an order which allows the command squad to advance and shoot. That order would apply to him as well, when he is within 6" of the command squad.

P5freak brings up a good point that's worth highlighting. I'm not looking at the rules at the moment, but if memory serves, voice of command (the rule that let's certain characters give orders) also let's you apply thay order to another valid target within 6" of the ordered squad. If the commissar is within 6" of the command squad, you can choose to have the order relayed back to the commissar (or have the commissar order himself and relay that order to the command squad, if you want a slightly less sill situation). Note, tank commander orders can't be relayed (unless I've been doing it wrong, which is possible

)

(As for the commissar not being able to give orders, I assume this commissar has the warlord trait that grants voice of command)

**Niiai**

Regarding charguing from reserves (deep strike as you call it) it has been very problematic when melee unist can just munch up non melee units out of deep strike.

This is stil possible with some sett up. GSC deep strike 8". And can get +1 to charge. One unit can even charge 3d6.

SM can use the chaplain to get +2 to charge. SW can use wulfen stone or BT have build in re-roll charge.

Tyranids can get 3d6 to charge with shardlure.+1 to charge from army rules.+2 to charge from a relic. Behemot re-rolls charges (I believe.)

Orks always have re-roll charge. One clan has +1 to charge.

Blood Angels has a character that can heoric interweene from deep strike. ^_^

As an alternative may I suggest that you try to charge out of a transport. Works wonders.

**kirotheavenger**

You can't order Commissars because they don't have <Regiment> I'm pretty sure?
But replace the Commissar with an Officer and that's legit.