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2022/05/08 18:10:11
Subject: What would you like to see happen with Chaos Daemons for ninth edition?
There's been a lot of talk about CSM, but very little about daemons. How would you like to see this faction be developed in 9th? These are some of my ideas:
Khorne daemons:
- All get at least two extra attacks on top of Unstoppable Ferocity
- Bloodletters become T4
- Gorehounds' and Bloodthirsters' flame weapon become twelve inches, as well as the Bloodthirster whips
- Bloodthirsters of Unfettered Fury lash does three flat damage
- The Lash of Khorne can be fired while in combat
- Bloodthirsters' Axes of Khorne do D3+3 damage and a mortal wound on a hit roll of 6+
- Great Axes of Khorne do flat six damage on mighty strike and two damage on sweeping blow, and both do mortal wounds on hit rolls of 6+
- Bloodthirsters degrade far less, don't lose strength as they get damaged
- Bloodthirsters give re-rolls of ones to all friendly Khorne units within six inches
- Bloodmasters' and Skullmasters' sword do flat two damage
- The Blood Throne's Blade of Blood does flat three damaged instead of D3
- Skarbrand's WS does not go down as he takes damage, and his axes for mighty strike do D3+3 damage and two damage on sweeping blow and a mortal wound on a hit roll of 6+
- Extra sixes rolled from the Deathbringer rule do not give another mortal wound
- Skarbrand's Bellow of Endless Fury can be fired in combat and is Assault D3+3,
- Blood Thrones' and Skull Cannons' speeds are increased by several inches and Skull Cannons have a close-range flamer attack
- Murderous Tide goes off when there are at least ten models of Bloodletters left in a unit instead of twenty
Tzeentch daemons:
- All units can cast and deny at least one psychic power per turn
- Smite can be cast multiple times per turn, though the number to cast goes up each time
- Strength and ap of Pink Horrors' shooting goes up, while Blue Horrors get a less powerful shooting mechanic
- The Magical Horde ability goes off when there are five models left in a unit, not twenty, and the MH shooting profile is D3+3 instead of D6 - Horrors can cast at least one power and can deny one, rolls 2D6 when doing a psychic test or Deny The Witch, and enemy units suffer D3 mortal wounds if the number rolled is high enough
- Brimstone Horrors don't die after casting or denying a power
- Everyone gets a 4++ save, even Brimstone Horrors
- Pink Horrors and Blue Horrors get some kind of melee attack with an ap value, and more attacks
- Heralds have more attacks (including more attacks for the disc and Screamers), can manifest two psychic powers per turn, and always get +1 to cast
- Flamers go up to Assault 3 and get a melee attack profile
- Exalted Flamers get more attacks and their pistol is changed to Assault 3
- The Changeling gets more attacks and can manifest two psychic powers
- The Blue Scribes get an increased number of attacks both for their disc and quills
- Lords of Change and Kairos Fateweaver always get +2 to cast regardless of how much they degrade, degrade far less, get more attacks, and give re-rolls of hit rolls of one to friendly Tzeentch daemons within six inches
- The Baleful Sword and Staff of Tomorrow do D3+3 damage
- The Soul Bane relic does three damage instead of one
Nurgle daemons:
- Plaguebearers get at least ap -1 for their swords, three attacks, and an armor save of 4+
- Cloud of Flies is in effect as long as a unit of Plaguebearers has five or more models left in a unit, not twenty
- Nurglings lose the Squishable rule and get DR regardless of how much damage an attack against them has in its profile
- All Heralds get an increased number of attacks
- Sloppity Bilepiper's marotter gets an improved profile
- Poxbringers can manifest two psychic powers and deny one
- Spoilpox Scrivener's plaguesword gets an ap value
- Beasts of Nurgle get five to six attacks instead of D6 - Plague Drones get an increased number of attacks and ap values for all of their attack profiles
- The Great Unclean One's flail can re-roll all failed wound rolls, does three damage instead of two, and can be fired while in combat
- The Bilesword and Doomsday Bell do 3 damage instead of D3 and the Bilesword does D3+3 instead of D6 - The Great Unclean keeps the 5+++ save while also reducing all incoming damage by one and allows hit rolls of one of friendly Nurgle daemons within six inches
- GUO goes up to seven attacks and strength does not go down as it takes damage (same with other greater daemons)
- Rotigus' Streams of Brackish Filth can be fired while in combat and his fanged maw does D3+3 attacks and can re-roll failed wound rolls
- His Deluge of Nurgle does three damage instead of one
- Streams of brackish filth is given to regular GUO's as well
- The Corruption relic is changed to dealing three damage instead of D3, while the Entropic Knell is gotten rid of and replaced with something much better
Slaanesh daemons:
- Daemonettes get three attacks base, and get to increase their attacks by one when their unit has ten or more models, not twenty
- The Masque gets at least one extra attack, same with every other daemon unit in the codex (I'm tired of writing this out over and over lol)
- The Lashes of Torment for the Herald on Exalted Seeker Chariot is Assault D3+3 instead of Assault D6, and the Lashing Tongues get an ap value
- For the Infernal Enrapturess' Heartstring Lyre, the cacophonous melody does D3 damage while the Euphonic Blast's damage is six
- The Keeper of Secrets gets at least seven attacks and grants re-rolls to wound rolls of one within six inches
- Shalaxi Helbane's Soulpiecer does D3+3 damage
- The Living Whip for Skalaxi and other Keepers of Secrets can be fired while in combat
Other/Undivided:
- All daemon units get WS and BS of 3 or better
- Daemons whose profiles degrade as they take damage do not go down in strength
- The Soul Grinder gets at least seven attacks, its harvester cannon does flat 3 damage, its phlegm bombardment is Heavy D3+3, and its warp claw does flat three damage
- Furies get at least three attacks and an ap value on their attacks
- Chaos Spawn get their rules updated in line with CSM, DG, and TS profiles
- Be'lakor gets an armor save of 3+ and at least eight attacks
- A Disciples of Be'lakor army can take Cult Marines, can have a detachment from the Cult Legions, and can include greater daemons
- Named greater daemons give re-rolls of hit rolls of one to all friendly daemons of the same god within six inches
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/05/08 18:59:02
2022/05/08 18:42:01
Subject: What would you like to see happen with Chaos Daemons?
Personal gripe here - why? What reason is there for a uniformly applied ws/bs 3+?
Beyond that I want to see Chaos daemons cease to exist as a codex and instead move to god specific books with the respective marine legions and renegades.
- A Disciples of Be'lakor army can take Cult Marines, can have a detachment from the Cult Legions, and can include greater daemons
Also to add this will likely become obsolete once the codex is released ala crusher stampede. Even if it doesn't there is a strong narrative reason he can't have greater daemons and cult units in his legions so flat nope from me.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/08 18:44:27
2022/05/08 18:51:47
Subject: What would you like to see happen with Chaos Daemons?
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote: This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote: You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something...
2022/05/08 19:05:43
Subject: What would you like to see happen with Chaos Daemons for ninth edition?
Either give us a summoning system that works or chop it out and let us deploy and use the army normally.
I get the appeal of summoning more units, but in order to make that work well, you have to do things like make certain units more expensive than they're worth, assuming that you'll summon more, or you have to do weird deep strike rules to make it appear that the army is coming in piecemeal, which doesn't work in 40k due to the heavy use of shooting.
Lets get the army on the table, perhaps with a sort of 'doctrine' sort of thing for the army.
Turn 1, -1 to hit daemon models outside of 12" to represent them coming in through the warp and not being 100% corporeal yet.
Turn 2, +1 to advance and charge, to represent the initial burst of the daemons rushing across the battlefield to engage with the enemy
Turn 3, +1 to WS and BS to represent daemon models exalting in the kills and combat that they're participating in
Turn 4, fall back and charge, allowing Daemons flexibility nearer to the end-game while also representing them lashing out at everything and anything, dancing across the battlefield to their own whims
Turn 5, +1 to psychic powers and ignore Combat Attrition, to represent the daemons swelling with warp power and the area they inhabit becoming more stable for their existence, at least for the moment.
This sort of thing could really help sell the theme of Chaos Daemons without needing to rely on wonky summoning mechanics.
2022/05/08 19:07:47
Subject: What would you like to see happen with Chaos Daemons for ninth edition?
ArcaneHorror wrote: There's been a lot of talk about CSM, but very little about daemons. How would you like to see this faction be developed in 9th? These are some of my ideas:
Khorne daemons:
- All get at least two extra attacks on top of Unstoppable Ferocity
- Bloodletters become T4
- Gorehounds' and Bloodthirsters' flame weapon become twelve inches, as well as the Bloodthirster whips
- Bloodthirsters of Unfettered Fury lash does three flat damage
- The Lash of Khorne can be fired while in combat
- Bloodthirsters' Axes of Khorne do D3+3 damage and a mortal wound on a hit roll of 6+
- Great Axes of Khorne do flat six damage on mighty strike and two damage on sweeping blow, and both do mortal wounds on hit rolls of 6+
- Bloodthirsters degrade far less, don't lose strength as they get damaged
- Bloodthirsters give re-rolls of ones to all friendly Khorne units within six inches
- Bloodmasters' and Skullmasters' sword do flat two damage
- The Blood Throne's Blade of Blood does flat three damaged instead of D3
- Skarbrand's WS does not go down as he takes damage, and his axes for mighty strike do D3+3 damage and two damage on sweeping blow and a mortal wound on a hit roll of 6+
- Extra sixes rolled from the Deathbringer rule do not give another mortal wound
- Skarbrand's Bellow of Endless Fury can be fired in combat and is Assault D3+3,
- Blood Thrones' and Skull Cannons' speeds are increased by several inches and Skull Cannons have a close-range flamer attack
- Murderous Tide goes off when there are at least ten models of Bloodletters left in a unit instead of twenty
Tzeentch daemons:
- All units can cast and deny at least one psychic power per turn
- Smite can be cast multiple times per turn, though the number to cast goes up each time
- Strength and ap of Pink Horrors' shooting goes up, while Blue Horrors get a less powerful shooting mechanic
- The Magical Horde ability goes off when there are five models left in a unit, not twenty, and the MH shooting profile is D3+3 instead of D6 - Horrors can cast at least one power and can deny one, rolls 2D6 when doing a psychic test or Deny The Witch, and enemy units suffer D3 mortal wounds if the number rolled is high enough
- Brimstone Horrors don't die after casting or denying a power
- Everyone gets a 4++ save, even Brimstone Horrors
- Pink Horrors and Blue Horrors get some kind of melee attack with an ap value, and more attacks
- Heralds have more attacks (including more attacks for the disc and Screamers), can manifest two psychic powers per turn, and always get +1 to cast
- Flamers go up to Assault 3 and get a melee attack profile
- Exalted Flamers get more attacks and their pistol is changed to Assault 3
- The Changeling gets more attacks and can manifest two psychic powers
- The Blue Scribes get an increased number of attacks both for their disc and quills
- Lords of Change and Kairos Fateweaver always get +2 to cast regardless of how much they degrade, degrade far less, get more attacks, and give re-rolls of hit rolls of one to friendly Tzeentch daemons within six inches
- The Baleful Sword and Staff of Tomorrow do D3+3 damage
- The Soul Bane relic does three damage instead of one
Nurgle daemons:
- Plaguebearers get at least ap -1 for their swords, three attacks, and an armor save of 4+
- Cloud of Flies is in effect as long as a unit of Plaguebearers has five or more models left in a unit, not twenty
- Nurglings lose the Squishable rule and get DR regardless of how much damage an attack against them has in its profile
- All Heralds get an increased number of attacks
- Sloppity Bilepiper's marotter gets an improved profile
- Poxbringers can manifest two psychic powers and deny one
- Spoilpox Scrivener's plaguesword gets an ap value
- Beasts of Nurgle get five to six attacks instead of D6 - Plague Drones get an increased number of attacks and ap values for all of their attack profiles
- The Great Unclean One's flail can re-roll all failed wound rolls, does three damage instead of two, and can be fired while in combat
- The Bilesword and Doomsday Bell do 3 damage instead of D3 and the Bilesword does D3+3 instead of D6 - The Great Unclean keeps the 5+++ save while also reducing all incoming damage by one and allows hit rolls of one of friendly Nurgle daemons within six inches
- GUO goes up to seven attacks and strength does not go down as it takes damage (same with other greater daemons)
- Rotigus' Streams of Brackish Filth can be fired while in combat and his fanged maw does D3+3 attacks and can re-roll failed wound rolls
- His Deluge of Nurgle does three damage instead of one
- Streams of brackish filth is given to regular GUO's as well
- The Corruption relic is changed to dealing three damage instead of D3, while the Entropic Knell is gotten rid of and replaced with something much better
Slaanesh daemons:
- Daemonettes get three attacks base, and get to increase their attacks by one when their unit has ten or more models, not twenty
- The Masque gets at least one extra attack, same with every other daemon unit in the codex (I'm tired of writing this out over and over lol)
- The Lashes of Torment for the Herald on Exalted Seeker Chariot is Assault D3+3 instead of Assault D6, and the Lashing Tongues get an ap value
- For the Infernal Enrapturess' Heartstring Lyre, the cacophonous melody does D3 damage while the Euphonic Blast's damage is six
- The Keeper of Secrets gets at least seven attacks and grants re-rolls to wound rolls of one within six inches
- Shalaxi Helbane's Soulpiecer does D3+3 damage
- The Living Whip for Skalaxi and other Keepers of Secrets can be fired while in combat
Other/Undivided:
- All daemon units get WS and BS of 3 or better
- Daemons whose profiles degrade as they take damage do not go down in strength
- The Soul Grinder gets at least seven attacks, its harvester cannon does flat 3 damage, its phlegm bombardment is Heavy D3+3, and its warp claw does flat three damage
- Furies get at least three attacks and an ap value on their attacks
- Chaos Spawn get their rules updated in line with CSM, DG, and TS profiles
- Be'lakor gets an armor save of 3+ and at least eight attacks
- A Disciples of Be'lakor army can take Cult Marines, can have a detachment from the Cult Legions, and can include greater daemons
- Named greater daemons give re-rolls of hit rolls of one to all friendly daemons of the same god within six inches
Good god-how many points would a basic daemon cost with those improvements?
I play Nurgle Daemons. There are some quality of life changes I'd like to see, but the main thing Daemons could use is the ability to interact in all phases like other armies-notably, shooting. Give us more variety, more options, more ways to play.
I do NOT want just straight-up power upgrades that make Daemons OP without being fun.
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
2022/05/08 19:15:36
Subject: What would you like to see happen with Chaos Daemons?
Dudeface wrote: Personal gripe here - why? What reason is there for a uniformly applied ws/bs 3+?
Beyond that I want to see Chaos daemons cease to exist as a codex and instead move to god specific books with the respective marine legions and renegades.
Because anything below that drastically reduces effectiveness, especially with all the minus one to hit rules going around. I actually wouldn't mind seeing codices like Maggotkin or Blades of Khorne in 40k, as I think that separating, god-marked Marines and daemons does not make much sense lore-wise.
As for Be'lakor, I can understand why his army can't take other daemon princes, but not the other stuff. Maybe a compromise could be that he can ally in Cult Marines, but not greater daemons.
2022/05/08 19:45:26
Subject: What would you like to see happen with Chaos Daemons for ninth edition?
Dudeface wrote: Personal gripe here - why? What reason is there for a uniformly applied ws/bs 3+?
Beyond that I want to see Chaos daemons cease to exist as a codex and instead move to god specific books with the respective marine legions and renegades.
Because anything below that drastically reduces effectiveness, especially with all the minus one to hit rules going around. I actually wouldn't mind seeing codices like Maggotkin or Blades of Khorne in 40k, as I think that separating, god-marked Marines and daemons does not make much sense lore-wise.
As for Be'lakor, I can understand why his army can't take other daemon princes, but not the other stuff. Maybe a compromise could be that he can ally in Cult Marines, but not greater daemons.
Be'lakor burned his bridges with all gods, the greater daemons are their direct hands and influencers within their armies and arguably of higher "rank" to their respective lesser daemons so he can't risk the conflict of interest. Likewise the cult troops are heavily dedicated to a singular god which is the opposite of what he's about.
Regards the stats, not enough of a reason tbh, that argument can be applied to literally every army and not everyone should have the exact same to hit roll or it may as well be a D3 to hit.
2022/05/08 19:51:30
Subject: What would you like to see happen with Chaos Daemons for ninth edition?
Make the army something beyond a port from Fantasy - more variants/options for lesser daemons, undivided/non-big four options, more daemon engines, more guns'n'stuff etc.
2022/05/08 20:25:56
Subject: Re:What would you like to see happen with Chaos Daemons for ninth edition?
Everything needs to change for daemons. Points drops, characteristics need improvements, better psychic powers with lower warp charge numbers, more ranged weapons, more damage, more AP, etc.
2022/05/08 20:28:01
Subject: What would you like to see happen with Chaos Daemons for ninth edition?
drbored wrote: Either give us a summoning system that works or chop it out and let us deploy and use the army normally.
I get the appeal of summoning more units, but in order to make that work well, you have to do things like make certain units more expensive than they're worth, assuming that you'll summon more, or you have to do weird deep strike rules to make it appear that the army is coming in piecemeal, which doesn't work in 40k due to the heavy use of shooting.
Lets get the army on the table, perhaps with a sort of 'doctrine' sort of thing for the army.
Turn 1, -1 to hit daemon models outside of 12" to represent them coming in through the warp and not being 100% corporeal yet.
Turn 2, +1 to advance and charge, to represent the initial burst of the daemons rushing across the battlefield to engage with the enemy
Turn 3, +1 to WS and BS to represent daemon models exalting in the kills and combat that they're participating in
Turn 4, fall back and charge, allowing Daemons flexibility nearer to the end-game while also representing them lashing out at everything and anything, dancing across the battlefield to their own whims
Turn 5, +1 to psychic powers and ignore Combat Attrition, to represent the daemons swelling with warp power and the area they inhabit becoming more stable for their existence, at least for the moment.
This sort of thing could really help sell the theme of Chaos Daemons without needing to rely on wonky summoning mechanics.
This is actually a really good idea, I love it.
2022/05/08 20:28:22
Subject: What would you like to see happen with Chaos Daemons for ninth edition?
PenitentJake wrote: A Crusade path to Princedom maybe? Rituals as agendas, maybe influencing the ease of summoning?
The next White Dwarf has Crusade rules for falling to chaos- perhaps possession or corruption of enemies.
Rules for allying with other chaos factions.
I see Daemons more on a strategical level like the Tau or Dark Eldar rules rather than an individual development. So you might prepare a daemonic incursion (usually that's what latd or CSM were for, but with the Rift we can do it on our own ) or you turn the World into a Daemon World or into a realm of your patron god, depending on which god you choose for your Warlord the benefits might be different.
Also, yeah, Princes are rather outsiders from a daemon kind of view. It would be like making a Space Marine Crusade rule about the ambition of an Inquisitor more fitting would probably be gaining boons from a patron god if you want to go the individual route, the 8th edition Codex showed that there are different levels a greater Daemon can achieve.
2022/05/08 20:40:21
Subject: Re:What would you like to see happen with Chaos Daemons for ninth edition?
I thought about this and with the crazy rules out there, i'm going to swing for he fences.
Universal Rules:
"Horrors from the immaterium"
- All daemonic attacks ignore any wound reducing or ignoring rules (ie limits on wounds taken in a phase and FNP type saves) but otherwise hit/wound as normal (weapons/attacks may have their own special rules)
- daemons get no save of any kind against MW caused in the psychic phase (they can deny and have khorneate based defences as normal) but, in turn, cannot have their invulnerable saves or own wound reducing rules ignored by any other rule outside of the psychic phase.
Greater daemons have a base 4++, better degrading, T8, 18+ wounds but are limited to one per detachment, named characters do not get counted in this limit.
Keep the exalted upgrade options but no BS rolling, you can guy like with every other faction. All except GUO get a 'wound loss limit per phase' option.
Base daemons T4 (even if still S3).
Khorne
- All khorne characters get the 'martial honour' rule which basically means no special rules for enemy characters when they fight khorne daemon characters that would allow other models to intervene, that would allow them to fight on or after death, that would allow them to re-roll anything or to use stratagems to do things like transhuman. You've got to straight up fight khorne daemon characters 1v1 with no fancy crap other than your wargear and saves. No re-rolls, no coming back to life, no bodyguard, no suddenly becoming tougher. You fight the God of Blood, Honour, Pride, Rage and War's avatar, you've got to do it pure.
- All khorne units have some kind of psychic denial. Bloodthirsters get to do it twice.
- Current charge bonus rules are fine.
- Bloodthirsters base strength is 8, lesser characters S5 or 6, all others S4.
- Khorne units must charge if they can. Even if pointless but you can choose target if multiple.
- Axes of Khorne obviously become D3+4 Damage.
Tzeentch
- all characters generate extra CP or tzeentch strats are cheaper and can use multiple re-rolls a phase because plans and such
- all get bonus to cast AND deny
- beastly psychic
- Regen options for units
- bad morale because they're cowards
Nurgle
- GUO should be beastly tough. I mean, go for it. T9, 20 wounds, 5+ FNP. All other characters should be horribly tough too.
- Should have a similar plague aura to DG but maybe, like Tyranid's, you can change the plague depending on unit type activated
- extra affects on moral losses
- Should be really slow. Like 4" movement, advance D3.
Slaanesh
- Characters should be bloody hard to hit and fast. All get that only hit on a 4+ rule, fight first and move rapid.
- FNP for everyone. Look under your chair.
- no running away
- slightly softer than other daemons. KOS T7, daemonetts T3.
Be'lakor is fine as is. Keep him as he is.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/05/08 23:21:13
- 10,000 pts CSM
2022/05/09 00:20:42
Subject: Re:What would you like to see happen with Chaos Daemons for ninth edition?
Units that make use of ranged combat. Daemons wielding guns, or weapons and armor melded with flesh like something out of Doom. Ideally no bows and arrows, even if the kit needs to match fantasy, fantasy/sigmar HAS guns and cannons. Give Khorne skilled craftsmanship weapons and war engines manned by Bloodletters and other lesser daemons, Nurgle could have plague artillery, with bloated masses that vomit out rot, etc.
Also round out each subfaction, since for the most part each god is expected to go it alone, give them the tools to actually succeed in all phases of the game. Telling someone playing Slaanesh that if they are worried about staying power that they should simply add some Nurgle daemons doesn't particularly help with theming, etc.
2022/05/09 00:55:15
Subject: Re:What would you like to see happen with Chaos Daemons for ninth edition?
I'm honestly looking forward to seeing what happens with Daemons almost as much as I am for my CSM.
Things I'd like to see:
- Ability to splash a Daemon detachment into a CHAOS army without breaking Army Abilities, similar to Chaos Knights.
- Drop Daemonic Ritual and instead make Denizens of the Warp a detachment ability: when a Daemon unit arrives from Strategic Reserves, it can be set up anywhere on the table more than 9" from the enemy.
- Add a generic "Daemonic Ritual" Action that CHAOS CHARACTERS can perform that then reduces the minimum distance for arriving via the Warp.
- Add a Warp Storm effect as a progressive Army Ability.
- Add real subfactions. Call them Daemonic Legions or something, with some being mono-god and others being mixed. Make Loci into just normal aura abilities.
- Make Greater Daemons Great Again. It's been too long since they were truly scary.
2022/05/09 01:09:08
Subject: What would you like to see happen with Chaos Daemons?
I expect that Traitor guard will have a Sgt or squad leader, that can take a rusty piece of scrap metal, which "counts as" a thunder hammer, and makes him a 4-6 attack S8 AP4 D4 threat in melee.
I expect that Bloodletters will get +1 attack for charge, +1 attack against imperial factions, and +1 attack if they've lost a model from the unit that turn.
Daemon Princes will likely remain unchanged, because they are already great, but they will be given a plasma pistol type weapon, that is always OC but never overheats. This will cost 5 points.
I don't see them martialling the intellectual talent it would take to properly fix Summoning in 9th, so I expect they will create another special rule, whereby if more than half the squad was killed in a turn, you can sacrifice the remainder of that squad to summon a greater demon. But it's a d6 to figure out which god's pet shows up.
I expect that GW will make the Skull tank thing, 35 points by accident, instead of 350. It will also have transport keyword for some reason. And Primaris.
2022/05/09 02:26:29
Subject: What would you like to see happen with Chaos Daemons for ninth edition?
I'd like to see them get put into the Chaos Space Marine Codex, with a "Travelling Players" style box that allows them to be taken in any CSM army (including DG/1KSons/WE) without breaking the army and still be taken on their own.
Basic demons should be more powerful (and cost more points). Space Marines should be outmatched 1v1 vs Bloodletters in CC. They're supposed to be terrifying horrors from the immaterium, not color-coded villains for Astartes to bop.
2022/05/09 04:43:02
Subject: What would you like to see happen with Chaos Daemons for ninth edition?
Hecaton wrote: Basic demons should be more powerful (and cost more points). Space Marines should be outmatched 1v1 vs Bloodletters in CC. They're supposed to be terrifying horrors from the immaterium, not color-coded villains for Astartes to bop.
Yay for power creep!
I mean, I completely agree as a Daemons player. A Daemonette can outmatch a space marine in contests of speed and skill, and a bloodletter can outmatch a space marine in contests of strength and stamina. But who are we kidding? They will probably stay GEQish rather than MEQish.
2022/05/09 05:18:59
Subject: What would you like to see happen with Chaos Daemons for ninth edition?
I mean, I completely agree as a Daemons player. A Daemonette can outmatch a space marine in contests of speed and skill, and a bloodletter can outmatch a space marine in contests of strength and stamina. But who are we kidding? They will probably stay GEQish rather than MEQish.
If they're costed appropriately, it wouldn't be power creep. Would be stat creep, though, I guess.
Would be interesting to make them all 2w though. T3 2w would be a different defensive profile.
2022/05/09 07:11:52
Subject: What would you like to see happen with Chaos Daemons?
Dysartes wrote: I'd quite like to see them get a book for 9th before we start worrying about 10th.
At a very, very bare minimum, the additional wave of Slaanesh daemons (excluding the Twins from AOS) and Be'lakor included within the book.
feth it, include the twins and the fat dude on a palanquin too
I'm not familiar enough with Slaanesh-palanquin-guy to comment, but with the Twins spinning out of a specific AOS story point, it'd be weird to see them in 40k.
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote: This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote: You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something...
2022/05/09 08:57:37
Subject: What would you like to see happen with Chaos Daemons for ninth edition?
I mean, I completely agree as a Daemons player. A Daemonette can outmatch a space marine in contests of speed and skill, and a bloodletter can outmatch a space marine in contests of strength and stamina. But who are we kidding? They will probably stay GEQish rather than MEQish.
If they're costed appropriately, it wouldn't be power creep. Would be stat creep, though, I guess.
Would be interesting to make them all 2w though. T3 2w would be a different defensive profile.
If we're judging wounds off physical bulk and ability to take injury, I'm not sure daemonettes should get 2 wounds, they're pretty lithe. Plagueberers and horros I could see as 2 wounds, but daemonettes and blood letters aren't super bulky etc.
2022/05/09 09:14:46
Subject: What would you like to see happen with Chaos Daemons?
Dysartes wrote: I'm not familiar enough with Slaanesh-palanquin-guy to comment, but with the Twins spinning out of a specific AOS story point, it'd be weird to see them in 40k.
Would it?
The story lines for the forces of Chaos are very different in Fantasy and 40k. Why would you leave out those newer twins? They would have completely different fluff in 40k as they do in AoS.
I would like to see a reduction of book work needed to keep track of reserve points. Keeping track of how many points you spent on splitting Horrors, summoning units, and creating Chaos Spawn can get quite burdensome. In addition, it requires a high level of trust that you or your opponent isn't fudging the points.
Beyond that, I would like to see Daemons have an altered morale mechanic, somewhat similar to 7th edition where by they only care about casualties suffered in close combat. Casualties inflicted upon them in any other phase don't count towards morale.
Over all, I think GW are struggling with how to advance Chaos Daemons as a faction. Daemons are very HQ heavy with 35 datasheets (excluding Forge-world), to their 23 datasheets in other slots (troops, elites, fast attack, heavy, and fortifications). I would be surprised if Daemons get a new non-HQ datasheet (maybe it's Tzeentch's turn to get a fortification, and the fane can get rules for 40k?).
2022/05/09 17:26:03
Subject: What would you like to see happen with Chaos Daemons for ninth edition?
I mean, I completely agree as a Daemons player. A Daemonette can outmatch a space marine in contests of speed and skill, and a bloodletter can outmatch a space marine in contests of strength and stamina. But who are we kidding? They will probably stay GEQish rather than MEQish.
If they're costed appropriately, it wouldn't be power creep. Would be stat creep, though, I guess.
Would be interesting to make them all 2w though. T3 2w would be a different defensive profile.
If we're judging wounds off physical bulk and ability to take injury, I'm not sure daemonettes should get 2 wounds, they're pretty lithe. Plagueberers and horros I could see as 2 wounds, but daemonettes and blood letters aren't super bulky etc.
They're lithe, but they're supernaturally durable. And bloodletters are like 7 foot tall muscley demons.
2022/05/11 21:34:37
Subject: Re:What would you like to see happen with Chaos Daemons for ninth edition?
Coming from a Khorne devotee perspective, I'd like to see Exalted Greater Daemons take the HQ slot and have the regular GD's moved to heavy support. This would help free up CP and give some love to the HS slot. Also an exalted/elite version of the troops would be neat to see and could give GW a way to re-box the old sprues with an additional sprue for the upgrades. Maybe change the GD's stratagem to affect other units ( and don't forget about the chariots). Change up the Soul Grinder to better interact with terrain would be super helpful. Since he is already so big, maybe make him titanic and up the stats to reflect it as well? a Spearhead of full of Bloodthirsters would be hilarious to see. I ignored summoning, so if that goes away or is stricken and used to name the "can take some units of Codex: CSM..." i'm all for it. Oh and if allied but the same god's keyword is on all units, then no lose the "purity buffs".
) or you turn the World into a Daemon World or into a realm of your patron god, depending on which god you choose for your Warlord the benefits might be different.
- 10,000 pts CSM 
