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Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




So, couldn't find any recent threads on this, but a quiet twitter announcement happened last week.

https://www.polygon.com/23070404/xbox-starfield-redfall-delays-analysis

Delayed from November to 'first half of 2023' (So about 3-5 months, most likely).

Redfall (from Arkane) is also shoved back (and is also to be published by Bethesda under MS. As are a fair few other titles from other people. 2022 is looking pretty empty, as no one wants to release the next Cyberpunk... or Total Warhammer 3.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/16 14:19:46


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
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Good, let's not rush out a faulty product.
   
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Frenzied Berserker Terminator




Southampton, UK

I might be able to upgrade to a Series X by then...
   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




Crispy78 wrote:
I might be able to upgrade to a Series X by then...


There are supposedly leaks about that. Or at least that it was bad on the Series S.

https://www.givemesport.com/88008701-starfield-leaker-big-claim-reason-delay

“There are many reasons why Starfield was delayed, I don’t know anything about RedFall but for Starfield:

Creation Kit is currently non-existent
Series S performance is really bad – Microsoft didn’t greenlight the cloud-only option for it.
A lot of content would need to be cut for the November release date.
Spaceflight does not have AAA feel, Phil wants to change it.
Todd wants a GOTY award for it and does not feel like he can win against Elden Ring.
Still a big part of this year’s showcase”


The GOTY thing sounds really petty but entirely fitting for Todd Howard.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/16 15:49:20


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
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Potent Grey Knight Librarian





Fort Worth, TX

The worst part is, I can almost believe that the GOTY reason is the primary reason, at least from the perspective of the executives and marketing people.

Besides, I forgot the game was even coming out this year.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/16 16:08:58


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Be nice for a company to release a game thats actually ready and does not require months of patches and dedicated unpaid moders to make it playable....

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Gargantuan Gargant






 Mr Morden wrote:
Be nice for a company to release a game thats actually ready and does not require months of patches and dedicated unpaid moders to make it playable....


Todd: "It just works...."

I hate how the standards for games is so low nowadays that having a game that isn't a broken mess on release is already considered something to praise a company for.
   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




 Mr Morden wrote:
Be nice for a company to release a game thats actually ready .


That's entirely true, but also... I dunno. I'm used to picking up something interesting in a genre I like on a whim, and this year seems even worse than last year. Even for the small titles that don't have the AAA issues.
Too often its either badly broken or isn't coming. Most of what I've been playing lately is 4 or 5 years old. Or more. I've been considering revisiting BG 1 & 2 rather than re-starting Wrath of the Righteous, because that's still a mess of broken or missing class features. Haven't started the 2nd DLC despite being a short, self-contained experience because the first DLC was pretty bad..


https://www.pcgamer.com/new-games-2022/
The list of game releases is... thin. And it gets worse as the year goes on. November is now empty, and December has _1_. Those two months make up one of the biggest release slots of the year and there's basically nothing, and summer is pretty miserable as well.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/05/16 16:58:10


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in de
Terrifying Doombull






Nuremberg

That's interesting. I've barely got the energy to play video games atm, still haven't gotten much into Elden Ring, so I'm pretty comfortable with waiting for Starfield.

Even though Fallout 4 was a bit disappointing in terms of the voiced protagonist and the plot generally, I really love the highly interactive nature of bethesda's games and the modding scene that comes with it. They scratch an itch that very few other games manage to, even with their shoddy writing and other limitations.

So I'm really in the market for Starfield. No Man's Sky is cool, but it doesn't quite scratch that itch. The Outer Worlds isn't doing it either. I hope Starfield will really be able to give that space sci fi exploration adventure I've been looking for.

I'm especially glad to hear they're going to improve the flying, because that's the part that these kinds of games usually get wrong in my view. Tight dogfighting could elevate this to a classic, and floaty, unreal feeling space flight would be a big disappointment.

So I don't really care about the delay. More games should be delayed imo, if it means you get a good product at the end.

   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps





United States

Voss wrote:
Crispy78 wrote:
I might be able to upgrade to a Series X by then...


There are supposedly leaks about that. Or at least that it was bad on the Series S.

https://www.givemesport.com/88008701-starfield-leaker-big-claim-reason-delay

“There are many reasons why Starfield was delayed, I don’t know anything about RedFall but for Starfield:

Creation Kit is currently non-existent
Series S performance is really bad – Microsoft didn’t greenlight the cloud-only option for it.
A lot of content would need to be cut for the November release date.
Spaceflight does not have AAA feel, Phil wants to change it.
Todd wants a GOTY award for it and does not feel like he can win against Elden Ring.
Still a big part of this year’s showcase”


The GOTY thing sounds really petty but entirely fitting for Todd Howard.



I'll never understand why some things become popular and others do not. Elden Ring looks about as interesting as an unsedated colonoscopy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Da Boss wrote:
That's interesting. I've barely got the energy to play video games atm, still haven't gotten much into Elden Ring, so I'm pretty comfortable with waiting for Starfield.

Even though Fallout 4 was a bit disappointing in terms of the voiced protagonist and the plot generally, I really love the highly interactive nature of bethesda's games and the modding scene that comes with it. They scratch an itch that very few other games manage to, even with their shoddy writing and other limitations.

So I'm really in the market for Starfield. No Man's Sky is cool, but it doesn't quite scratch that itch. The Outer Worlds isn't doing it either. I hope Starfield will really be able to give that space sci fi exploration adventure I've been looking for.

I'm especially glad to hear they're going to improve the flying, because that's the part that these kinds of games usually get wrong in my view. Tight dogfighting could elevate this to a classic, and floaty, unreal feeling space flight would be a big disappointment.

So I don't really care about the delay. More games should be delayed imo, if it means you get a good product at the end.


Fallout 4 was a good game, ruined by poor decisions. A voiced protagonist, watered down roleplay system (let's be honest, it was stripped to the barest of bones) and a lot of unfortunately uninteresting characters took what is mechanically, a pretty good game and made it bland, uninteresting and sad.

This Starfield game they're trying to hype could be good, or it could be bad. But, I don't care about it. I want my TES6. That's literally the only thing from Bethesda I care about at this time and the wait is just absurd at this point. It's been over 11 years since TES5.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/16 19:01:25


 
   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




You should sign on to the Skyrim Grandma's campaign.

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/skyrim-grandma-shirley-curry-would-like-todd-howard-to-hurry-up-and-finish-the-elder-scrolls-6

"How about 'Hi'? No, I'd ask him to give me a cool game, and I'd ask him to hurry up and finish The Elder Scrolls 6. I want to play it before I die,"

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

I have a feeling that Microsoft is breathing down their neck a little to try and minimize the typical buggy launch of future games.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

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Northumberland

 Togusa wrote:


Fallout 4 was a good game, ruined by poor decisions. A voiced protagonist, watered down roleplay system (let's be honest, it was stripped to the barest of bones) and a lot of unfortunately uninteresting characters took what is mechanically, a pretty good game and made it bland, uninteresting and sad.


Unfortunately that has been Bethesda's deal for a while, compare Morrowind to Skyrim where the RPG elements are reduced to nothing. They were clearly told "make the game accessible!" and that means bland and dull to appeal to any thick eejit who wants to play it.

I'm happy if Starfield does get delayed, providing the end result is actually good. It has a great deal of potential but my opinion on newer games is unbelievably poor.

Like you say, I only really want them to hurry the hell up with TES6. And that's going to be when? 2025?

One and a half feet in the hobby


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I had hoped that with Microsoft taking over Bethesda we'd see Todd get booted or retire.

Never even heard of Redfall, but hey, a coop shooter by Arkane, sign me up, it's not Prey 2 but it'll do.
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Nah, Todd's fine as long as he is accountable to someone. Big poppa Microsoft is going to expect results, and I'm sure they'll keep a tight leash on overclaiming "16x the detail" in future public interactions.

Todd was getting an overinflated ego after the success of Skyrim because he was at the top. Now that he's got bosses, he'll keep things minimally disruptive.

It's kinda the George Lucas thing. George, like Todd, is an idea guy, but he needs to be kept on a leash. Otherwise you get CGI inserted into the original trilogy making it look weird. Or you make Greedo shoot first because reasons...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/19 16:30:24


Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in gb
Aspirant Tech-Adept





Northumberland

Could be worse, could be Peter Molyneux

One and a half feet in the hobby


My Adeptus Mechanicus Painting Log:
# The Explorator Fleet of Labrunnia IX #

 
   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




 Grey Templar wrote:
I have a feeling that Microsoft is breathing down their neck a little to try and minimize the typical buggy launch of future games.


Given they're managing both Bugthesda and Bugsidian now (Avowed [Skyrim for Pillars of Eternity] is somewhere in the foreseeable future from Obsidian), the stable managers must be pulling their hair out.

Huh... actually that's a point. Microsoft isn't going to have TES6 coming out anywhere near Avowed, since they're basically the same game (with different settings). 6 months to year afterwards, minimum (if not longer because no one is really sure that actual work has even started on TES6 yet). In fact, the delay of Starfield may affect Avowed, since its also hitting the Same Game Test (Just sci-fi instead). Managing releases for Microsoft publishing should be a real nightmare now.

And they'll have to keep an eye on competition like Dragon Age: Slavers, and Mass Effect: Whichever.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/19 18:41:32


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I just hope that Obsidian is doing the unoriginally titled "Fallout New Vegas 2", after the uninspiring Fallout 4 and disastrous 76, would be nice to get a good Fallout game again.
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

I've been hoping that they would do a New Vegas: Remastered where they just update it to the Fallout 4 version of the game engine and finish the massive amount of cut content that NV had. I would pay $60 for that.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in nl
[MOD]
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Cozy cockpit of an Imperial Knight

New Vegas with better graphics and better gunplay, but leaving the rest untouched would already be ideal for me. But +1 for throwing in all the cut content on top of that.
   
Made in de
Powerful Ushbati






I'd prefer a better, actual open world setup in a remastered New Vegas. The actual world was unnecessarily linear and dreadfully implemented to the point were there was a literal conga line of Deathclaws to close off the quick approach from Goodsprings to New Vegas. What a bs way of worldbuilding.

As for Starfield, I very much hope that they have managerial oversight now and any delay is actually used to fix problems and implement planned content instead of cutting it for an earlier release. Fallout 4 wasn't flawless on release but I had next to no issues myself, which is not something I am used to saying about Bethesda games. I'd like a repeat of that. If that means big bad Microsoft has to step in, I'll take it.

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Why is the rum always gone? 
   
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Well.. Fallout 4 was pretty and stable, but fething hell, radiant quests are not the way to go.
   
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Powerful Ushbati






I liked the themes and appearance of Fallout 3 better, to be honest, so I'd only agree with the pretty part with an asterisk next to it. But agreed, the game has some issues. I'm not sure I take exception to radiant quests. I'd say the trick to those is to make them varied and not just presented by a single NPC so as to give a semblance of life to your factions. As an example, have a settlement, generate a problem of the day for it, and then let an NPC that may be plausibly connected to the issue tell you about it, instead of Preston Garvey letting you know about that settlement that needs your help. Again. Bethesda hasn't come that far, unfortunately. Maybe someday in the future they'll do more organic world- and quest building.

I was far less impressed with the half-assed settlement system. Technically you can see a nice progression from the fixed theme player houses of Fallout 3 over the somewhat modular player homes Hearthfire added to Skyrim to the building system of Fallout 4. In principle it really opened up the way you can build your home. In practice you can't build half of your allotted workshop space up because of a low building limit, settlers can scavenge for materials but somehow Bethesda didn't want that kind of passive income to work and limited junk collection to workshops with almost nothing in their inventory, raids are somewhat meaningless, and when Nuka World added Raider settlements that you could run, the only way to run them even semi-effectively is to let them raid your own settlements that you carefully built up for that purpose beforehand. It's really poorly implemented and in my opinion a good example of a feature that should absolutely delay the release of a game until it's sorted out.

I think with Fallout Bethesda stumbled over their otherwise so successful open world game design. You have a lot of people looking for a strong story with a definite ending because it's Fallout, and a lot of other people looking for an open world experience because it's a Bethesda game. I don't know if there's a good solution to that which allows both groups to get the game they're looking for, but it might be best to decouple these things in some way. Then again, that would rob you of the experience of starting the main quest after 300 hours of gameplay.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/05/20 12:46:03


Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone? 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

That's where the cut content would help. New Vegas had almost as much cut content as made it into the actual game. All of the DLC? Original cut content, and there is at least twice as much still unimplemented. Most of it had its audio recorded already too. It's just either missing some characters and/or locations that were never fully built.

Settlements could definitely still use tweaking, but at least they worked ok at launch and you could just totally ignore it if you wanted to. Just set up the bare minimum at sanctuary, make yourself a house, and then forget settlements exist. None of the major quests required you to go deep into settlement building and management. It was all optional.

Radial quests I am torn on. They were definitely too repetitive and boring, but having repeatable quests for some small reward is a nice thing to have available. I think it would have been nice if there had been repetitive quests that were a little more active. Not all just "go to X location and come back". Escorting a trader between two of your settlements would have been cool for example.

Garvey was absolutely the worst part of radial quests. IDK how they thought he wouldn't completely annoy the character. And the whole Minuteman organization makes no sense. Why is the 2nd in command of the Minutemen giving the General orders? Why are there literally only 2 missions? The radial "a settlement needs your help!" and "lets retake the Castle!"

It really felt like the Minutemen were a last minute addition that never got fully implemented. They needed to have a more structured questline. Make them have gotten scattered after the last big battle and you have to go find the surviving minutemen and get them back together. Get new recruits at various settlements. Start protecting Diamond city and Bunker Hill. Etc...

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




. And the whole Minuteman organization makes no sense. Why is the 2nd in command of the Minutemen giving the General orders?

This is an interesting one, because it isn't just a Fallout4 (Skyrim does it too, and its worse when you're archmage or own the thieves guild or in charge of the death cult for... reasons) or Bethesda problem. Its a genre problem. You see it in Warcraft from Draenor to Legion or BFA.

You're the commander/champion/class leader (as is everyone else), but you've always got a second giving _you_ missions.

They feel like players want the fake prestige but not the tedious micromanagement of leadership (which is fair), but will somehow swallow being boss and being bossed simultaneously. Instead it just feels cheap, makes the title hollow, and degrades the experience. (And should make you suspect that the developers/writers think you're an idiot).

The solution of course, is... don't make the player a leader unless it is the focus of the game. Prestigious muscle for the organization is really the better option.

----
Honestly I hope Bethsoft learned something from Skyrim and FO4 in terms of leadership and settlements. Its going to be dumb if Starfield gives you a planet or station to run, and makes the same mistakes. And has the same 'snap-build' and clipping problems that FO4 settlements do.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/20 17:54:19


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That's what made FO New Vegas so much better tbh, you were a player over what happens at Hoover Dam and you could go your own path with the independent route, but it made no claims about you basically being the head honcho for any of the major factions and you were 100% just a big asset that they were fighting over to control.
   
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Given that most of the old guard are gone from Obsidian I'm not even sure how well it'd turn out if things were to be remade.
   
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Powerful Ushbati






 Grey Templar wrote:
Radial quests I am torn on. They were definitely too repetitive and boring, but having repeatable quests for some small reward is a nice thing to have available.


You can have an open world game without repeatable quests, but I find it helps to have something that gives players who want something to do an easy starting point and removes the need to making up their mind what to do next. It may sound lazier than it's meant to, but guidance and goals are good to have on hand. to me that's the difference between open world and sandbox. The latter really requires you to be into that kind of thing, while the former shares many of its benefits but doesn't expect you to create your own fun.

But yeah, if you want such a system you have to fully commit to it and make it interesting and varied.

 Grey Templar wrote:
It really felt like the Minutemen were a last minute addition that never got fully implemented. They needed to have a more structured questline. Make them have gotten scattered after the last big battle and you have to go find the surviving minutemen and get them back together. Get new recruits at various settlements. Start protecting Diamond city and Bunker Hill. Etc...


It's possibly Bethesda realizing late in development that you can piss off all the other factions and get kicked out so there needed to be a way to finish the main quest. It may have been a new idea to them. In Fallout 3 if you made the wrong decision, you died and had to reload. In Skyrim you're not allowed to make decisions that have bad consequences for you. It might have been one of those things that just slipped through.

Just consider that the main quest has a way of finishing for the Institute by using the Railroad to blow up the Brotherhood, then turning on the Railroad. Which is a far cleverer plan than taking your chances with a military engagement to take out Liberty Prime. The mechanics for this are implemented, but there is no dialogue to acknowledge this approach in the game and you skip a quest stage or two along with the now redundant dialogue about the battle against the Brotherhood. It's not a farfetched solution to the main quest, but apparently no one thought to have it implemented in its entirety.

Voss wrote:
Honestly I hope Bethsoft learned something from Skyrim and FO4 in terms of leadership and settlements. Its going to be dumb if Starfield gives you a planet or station to run, and makes the same mistakes.


One can only hope. And speaking of hope, I had hoped we'd get some tangible information on the game in the non too distant future, like for E3 or something. Bethesda claims a "deep dive" will happen soon, and I hope it does. Would be nice to actually get to see something on the game.

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Why is the rum always gone? 
   
Made in de
Terrifying Doombull






Nuremberg

I play Skyrim for the feeling of immersion in another world. It's not got writing nearly as good as the Witcher for example, but it's a lot easier to make your own character and then roleplay your playstyle in that game than in most other games.

That's the problem with Fallout 4. I'm not able to be my own person, because I already have a substantial backstory and a missing child to hunt down. That's not what I come to Bethesda games for. So now I have to put up with the mediocre writing AND no immersion and limitations on the narrative I can tell myself about the game.

Not everyone goes to these games for those reasons, I've seen a lot of people disappointed by the writing and they have a good point. But the writing for me is secondary.

I wonder if they'll keep that aspect of the games going forward. I feel like they've been moving gradually away from it.

   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




 Grimskul wrote:
That's what made FO New Vegas so much better tbh, you were a player over what happens at Hoover Dam and you could go your own path with the independent route, but it made no claims about you basically being the head honcho for any of the major factions and you were 100% just a big asset that they were fighting over to control.


Kind of? I really disliked NV. The world felt empty, the NPCs were devoid of anything memorable, and I disliked the forced backstory (and the really absurd doubling down on it for Lonesome Road).
The faction aspect of NV felt like they didn't bother finishing the game rather than they intentionally avoided some of the pitfalls.

Though really, all the (main) fallout games are heavy handed on the backstory. The Vault Dweller, The Chosen One, The Vault Dweller #2(secret outsider edition), The Courier, The Sole Survivor, its all pretty heavy and (barring FO1) a long, exacting prologue defining and limiting precisely who you are). Elder Scrolls tend to be a bit better about that (at least until Skyrim hits you the dragon-shaped Chosen One mallet), in that you're a passerby that happens to be taken prisoner by jerks- who you are is left open.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/05/21 13:38:41


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