World Eaters news and rumours. Skulls for the Skull Throne!

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**Roknar**

Yea sorry, hell to the naw for that lol. Forge world's is perfectly fine, but I could totally see alternatives that are not....that

Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for the models, I like them. I don't play the game anymore, it just got too stupid/corporate to handle. 8 daemons in a meat suit?.....riiiiight. I choose to ignore that.

The whole all melee all day long thing aside, I am definitely picking up the (not-)possessed and zerkers, but in order to convert.
The humans in that sense are kind of cool too. They seem to be undergoing conversion to space marines?
They have ports and cables all over, would also explain the big guy who is further along in the transformation.

It's the same for the other new CSM kits in general, they are great bases for conversions if you ignore the rules.
And when converting, the monoposing isn't nearly as much of an issue if you are committed to it.
That said, I feel sorry for any world eater players.

Nevermind the fact they basically already GOT a codex....only for it to be silently gutted again, Khorne Daemonkin anyone?
Those had their own fill of issues, but to be replaced by this?....oof.
And no red butchers, despite them getting rules in previous codices?....slow clap GW....slow clap.
Even for GW this is just sad.

**Roknar**

Going from the GW screenshots they seem to be the same size, the possessed bases are the same size on theri screenshots.
If so, it would be great for making the possessed a little less possessed:

Spoiler:

Just need to figure out how to get moulded pistols like the gal vorbak. I hate the idea that the possessed suddenly only use melee....they still have hands -_-

**Roknar**

Trying to imagine GWs depiction of world eaters.

They can only communicate in gutteral growls with some frothing and by pulsating bulging veins. Maybe an eyebulge for emphasis.
During transit from one battlefield to the other they murder just about everybody on the ship and then commit suicide. Gotta spill dat blood after all.
But heres their secret..they get revived every time.

This is how they make landfall. Instead of drop pods or storm eagles or what have you, they dump all their corpses that are almost spilling out the holds at this point.
This creates both a cushion for the marines to land on safely and also allows the odd live cultist to survive the fall in their cocoon of limbs.
Also provides cover as they blot out the sun. (what ? how else did you think they make it to the ground, obviously they are jumping out from orbit. They have environmental suites for a reason)

They don't have any bikes or so of course, so how do they get to the enemy?
Why of course by running up while their opponents are just sitting there, slackjawed, pinching themselves to check they are not dreaming.
Who could have anticipated a spaceship with no guns. They don't even register as threats on the scanning. Some don't even have thrusters, those blew up long ago as they pointed the ship at a planet and set a ramming course.
The anti air is also useless since the WE are deliberately crashing the odd looted ship to get to ground faster, further shielding the corpse-chutes.
The smoke from the sacrificial cruisers also covers them.

No need for bunker busters either if you cover them in corpses and drown them in blood.

Besides, they HAVE to run...using anything else would not be on their own merit after all.
And as for snipers? pff...Good luck spotting a bloadcoated berzker in that hail of gore.
Chances are they will be taken out anyway by a stray skull.
They have that covered, they can focus on dismantling titans with their chainswords.

**Roknar**

Spoiler:

heh, have an exalt for that. Made me chuckle.

**Roknar**

Just read the page.....wow....I keep thinking GW hit rock bottom, but nope...ere we go, there is lower. And I thought Cawl/primaris was bad. This a whole other level.

**Roknar**

Spoiler:

They're not a miniatures first company.
Such a company would sell you all the different marks, civilians, cars, taverns, weapon packs, the various non faction xenos., etc etc.
And they wouldn't be charging an arm and a leg for it.

I've stopped playing the game and I'm only converting models now. And even so the kits are bad.
Whoever decided that melee weapons are 100% on the left side of the models and bolt pistols/bolters are 100% on the right side should be fired.
And why do they continue to make upgrade options....but only for heresy?
Why are CSM all made as Black Legion?

They either suck as miniature first company....or they just want you to believe that they are.

**Roknar**

Didn't say it was, just that it's not a miniature company...or a bad one at that. ...They're bad at writing rules too

**Roknar**

Maybe I'm missing something here but why would it be free rules and bloat?
The various subfactions, especially marines and the imperial guard canoncially fight differently....and look differently.
Why should we expect anything less of their tabletop representation?

It's not "free" rules, it's a fleshing out of rules.
They mostly share a core amount of units and rules, sure...but that is only what they have in common.
After that you fill out what makes each faction different, COMPLETING the rules, not ADDING new rules.
There is no consideration of power gaming there, the various subfactions are not just paint jobs. That's absurd?

**Roknar**

Spoiler:

Geifer wrote:
Roknar wrote:
Maybe I'm missing something here but why would it be free rules and bloat?
The various subfactions, especially marines and the imperial guard canoncially fight differently....and look differently.
Why should we expect anything less of their tabletop representation?

It's not "free" rules, it's a fleshing out of rules.
They mostly share a core amount of units and rules, sure...but that is only what they have in common.
After that you fill out what makes each faction different, COMPLETING the rules, not ADDING new rules.
There is no consideration of power gaming there, the various subfactions are not just paint jobs. That's absurd?

Subfaction rules very much are free rules. They also flesh out the narrative side, which is a positive to be sure. But you can't get around the fact that the rules implementation is so bad that it actually is free stuff.

Let's imagine four traits to keep the argument simple. One gives your Tactical Marines a bonus attack on a charge. One grants your Tactical Marines' bolter hit rolls of 6 an additional hit. One gives your Tactical Marines a bonus to leadership. One grants damage reduction to Dreadnoughts.

Three of those four chapters have better Tactical Marines than the fourth one, but they all pay the same price for those Marines. Which means either the basic Tactical Marine underperforms compared to the buffed ones or the buffed ones get buffs for free. That doesn't even account for the value of the various buffs compared to each other.

Now put that in the context of the entire army and for argument's sake say an amount of points spent on Tactical Marines isn't worth as much as the same amount spent on Dreadnoughts. Now the fourth chapter that loses out on Tactical Marines gains a buff on Dreadnoughts that are a more useful and powerful than Tactical Squads, but pays the exact same points for the buffed Dreadnought as the other chapters pay for their unbuffed Dreadnoughts.

Now put that in the context of lax army construction rules which do not force you to invest in underperforming Tactical Squads and let you freely load up on overperforming Dreadnoughts. If you pick the chapter that buffs Dreadnoughts, you get greater performance out of your chapter's trait than the other chapters. Which compared to them is free and thus compared to the baseline, with which the first three chapters have to work with, is also free.

It's one of the bigger issues with a number of rules currently in use in 40k. They are all valued the same whether that's free or measured in CP, but increase performance over the baseline and do so to varying degrees compared to other thins that are valued the same. There's no easy fix to that as GW is reluctant to rewrite the rules to work better. You would want to allocate points to abilities like chapter traits, warlord traits, relics and so on to reflect their different impact on performance, reintroduce more restrictive force organization and limit unit number in a more sophisticated way than the rule of three, and refrain from breaking out of that framework for some abilities that may be fluffy but totally wreck balance. When you have that, you'll have a reasonable framework to hand out rules that alter capabilities to better reflect fighting style and other fluffy things. Just thrown on top like GW does now, it's just free boosts that don't even increase performance equally.

It's also not likely to change for the better. You can see with the free wargear choices GW implements at the moment that they are actively moving away from a better rules framework. In that context the absence of subfaction rules in the World Eaters book could be seen as kind of an improvement if you squint really hard, because it removes rules that are only going to work worse the more GW gives up balancing mechanics. It's completely bogus of course because it removes fluffy rules even further (or keeps them out to begin with, as in this case) and you just know that other subfactions won't lose their rules down the line, so it's just GW screwing over World Eaters specifically.

the rules implementation is so bad.......GW is reluctant to rewrite the rules to work better

This. GW is bad and always has been bad at this to varying degrees.
It doesn't make it a conceptually bad idea to differentiate the various subfactions.
And even then, things are never going to be fully balanced even without such differences in rules, they just need to be close enough.

Spoiler:

Well then let's say you remove all those rules. We keep only the base rules for everybody
There will STILL be broken unfluffy lists. NOT having them on the other hand only punishes people wanting to play fluffy.

Unit profiles will be better than others, lists will be better than others. Some things will cost too little, others too much.
Decisions will be better than others, by which I don't mean player skill, I mean doing things that would be more accurate in the lore for you subfaction.

EviscerationPlague says it.... Power gamers will and always have been power gamers.
No amount of rules can fully protect against that. And GW are notoriously bad at writing rules.

Providing a way to improve the identity of a faction over an another does not change this.
Power gamers won't care either way, but those that care about the fluff can identify much stronger with their faction than without such rules.
And it doesn't have to be rules limited to one faction either. It could be a pool of specialisations everybody gets to dip in, with rules & restrictions governing how to do that.